Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams & Liberty (Libby) German - The Delphi Murders - #149

[NoSpoonFeeding]

KAK knew she would be there.

There is no evidence to support that. The hearsay used to make the claim KAK knew she would be there is not evidence.
In my opinion, no one should be accused, via SM or websites, of murder, unless LE has at least named them as a POI or suspect. Especially since LE has stated BG is the murderer and neither KAK or TK are BG.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

a spouse can not be compelled to testify, right? But what about other closely related family members?

Are you asking about family members testifying against a relative in a criminal trial? Or are you asking if co-defendants, that are related, can be made to testify (against each other)? Because that is not just a simple yes or no.

 

[steeltowngirl]

There is no evidence to support that. The hearsay used to make the claim KAK knew she would be there is not evidence.
In my opinion, no one should be accused, via SM or websites, of murder, unless LE has at least named them as a POI or suspect. Especially since LE has stated BG is the murderer and neither KAK or TK are BG.

In fairness, we don’t know whether either one - KAK or TK - is, or is not, BG.

 

[Ravenmoon]

There is no evidence to support that. The hearsay used to make the claim KAK knew she would be there is not evidence.
In my opinion, no one should be accused, via SM or websites, of murder, unless LE has at least named them as a POI or suspect. Especially since LE has stated BG is the murderer and neither KAK or TK are BG.

The evidence that I am using here is from the interrogation :

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/u...an-Kline-10-19-2-FINAL-VERSION-Redacted-1.pdf

<modsnip - personalizing>

JMO

EBM

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

The evidence that I am using here is from the interrogation :

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/u...an-Kline-10-19-2-FINAL-VERSION-Redacted-1.pdf

<modsnip - personalizing>

JMO

Based on that "evidence", I can't see the justification for calling KAK or TK a murderer.
There is zero evidence that either of them is BG.

In any case, it does not need to be proven that KAK and TK are not BG, it needs to be proven that one of them is BG. Which one are you thinking is BG?
There are photos of BG, KAK, and TK. There is a lot of documentation of their height, weight, hair, etc. These are facts. <modsnip - personalizing>
KAK and TK, who do not resemble the sketches, are physically eliminated from being BG due to their size. Due to the size difference, I can't see anyone saying that BOTH/either of them could have been BG. TK is much taller, and KAK has always been very obese, despite some trying to prove that he used to be "smaller". I trust the FBI's assessment of BG's physicals/age.
Witnesses that saw BG in person, have not identified either man as being BG. LE has some type of DNA, which has not identified anyone as a suspect, and they do have KAK and TK's DNA for comparison.

<modsnip - personalizing>

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

In fairness, we don’t know whether either one - KAK or TK - is, or is not, BG.

KAK and TK are physically different and distinctive, pls explain how both of them could be BG. TK is much too tall. Is BG over 6' tall?

 

[Ozoner]

Based on that "evidence", I can't see the justification for calling KAK or TK a murderer.
There is zero evidence that either of them is BG.

In any case, it does not need to be proven that KAK and TK are not BG, it needs to be proven that one of them is BG. Which one are you thinking is BG?
There are photos of BG, KAK, and TK. There is a lot of documentation of their height, weight, hair, etc. These are facts. <modsnip - personalizing>
KAK and TK, who do not resemble the sketches, are physically eliminated from being BG due to their size. Due to the size difference, I can't see anyone saying that BOTH/either of them could have been BG. TK is much taller, and KAK has always been very obese, despite some trying to prove that he used to be "smaller". I trust the FBI's assessment of BG's physicals/age.
Witnesses that saw BG in person, have not identified either man as being BG. LE has some type of DNA, which has not identified anyone as a suspect, and they do have KAK and TK's DNA for comparison.

<modsnip - personalizing>

In my opinion, TK fits the profile for BG in terms of TK's past behaviors as described by his step-children and his alleged peeping behavior from back in high school. In particular, he allegedly made his stepdaughter run while he fired at her, actually hitting her in the elbow with a BB (which had to be surgically removed). He also apparently enjoyed killing animals, including dogs and cats.

‎Murder Sheet: The Delphi Murders: Who is Tony Kline? Part Two on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Murder Sheet, Ep The Delphi Murders: Who is Tony Kline? Part Two - 29 Mar 2022

podcasts.apple.com

In my opinion, TK is clearly a psychopath and a sadist who is fully capable of committing a premeditated sexually-motivated homicide.

TK's overall body shape is consistent with BG. His height is not consistent with the height initially provided by law enforcement, which was an estimate and which has been removed.

KAK's current body shape is not even remotely consistent with BG. We have not seen any photographs of KAK from February of 2017, but even in the oldest photographs that we have seen, he appears to be substantially more obese than BG. I cannot rule him out as BG, however. KAK could have slimmed down around February of 2017, and the cell phone video could be distorting BG's body shape, making him appear thinner than he is.

In my opinion, TK is far and away the best candidate that we've seen for BG. I cannot say that he is definitely BG, but I think that he is probably BG. This is where I am at this point for who is BG:

TK: 80%
KAK: 10%
Someone else: 10%

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

May today be the day.

 

[carbuff]

I always thought the person in the bridge video looked quite rotund, but I was never sure if they were overweight, or an average person wearing oversize clothing (either as a disguise or to cover up, like maybe an outer layer that could be removed and thrown away).

I was also never sure how much of that was camera distortion. I take a lot of pictures with my iPhone and it sometimes does truly weird things with proportions.

 

[FromGermany1]

I trust the FBI's assessment of BG's physicals/age.

Unfortunately, only "white male" was left, that is the problem. Senseless to compare, to be honest. We urgently have to find other reference points than "who looks like BG" or "who looks more like BG".

 

[AC4RD]

... (snipped for focus)
KAK's current body shape is not even remotely consistent with BG. We have not seen any photographs of KAK from February of 2017, but even in the oldest photographs that we have seen, he appears to be substantially more obese than BG. I cannot rule him out as BG, however. KAK could have slimmed down around February of 2017, and the cell phone video could be distorting BG's body shape, making him appear thinner than he is. ...

On a strictly personal "MOO" basis, I disagree that KAK is "substantially more obese than BG." I absolutely agree that it's very difficult to judge much of anything from the LG video clip. Someone else said KAK was always way too fat to be BG; people are probably tired of this but I'll bring it up again:



I didn't understand this when I put the photos together, but the shot in which KAK is wearing a Dodgers fan shirt, was apparently taken at Hoover Dam. That's near Las Vegas, and TK is in the original; this is almost certainly the trip TK and KAK took right after the murders.

Tripadvisor lists $80 package tours from Las Vegas to the Hoover Dam--that may be what father and son did instead when they found out how much the brothel cost.

So the statement "... not seen any photographs of KAK from February of 2017, but even in the oldest photographs that we have seen, he appears to be substantially more obese than BG" is one I would respectfully disagree with. That shot of KAK in the Dodgers shirt is from the week after the murders, and he's a lot slimmer in that than the arrest photo from 2020. Whether that body shape could or could not be BG is a matter of personal opinion, obviously. My own feeling is that the 2017 and 2018 photos show that KAK certainly COULD have been BG.

I've said that before, with the disclaimer that I wasn't saying KAK was BG, just that he could be, and I still agree with that opinion. As I consider the other circumstantial items (DNA search, phone pinging near but not at grandparents, etc.), though, I really do believe KAK may well have been BG. I suspect that LE has a lot of evidence that would prove or disprove that belief. Recent developments suggest to me, MOO, that charges may be filed in the semi-near future, though against whom is still uncertain.

And to repeat, if you think the 2017 Hoover Dam photo shows KAK to be too fat to be BG, we have different opinions on that. To me, that could be KAK in the blue jacket, with a gun in one pocket. Just MHO, of course.

 

[sandy_80]

Everything, everybody here, including you and me, are saying is speculation and assumption. Thoughts about serial killers, theories about locals and LE involvement, psychopaths and sociopath, catfishers and internet predators…everything. And I think most everybody keeps all these things in their brains stored away. I know I do. I have my main opinion at this moment, but I I know those others are still possibilities. I know this because LE in this case has given us absolutely nothing in this case.

Here is a list of information LE has officially put out for us:
…a photo of the guy on the bridge
…a 2 second video of BG
…a 4 word audio clip
…a mention of a vehicle at the CPS parking lot with no description of the vehicle
…two useless sketches
…a request by the Delphi Task Force for information on the anthony_shots internet profile

I don’t know how you expect definitive evidence about anything considering we all know virtually nothing. There is no evidence, from LE, that Libby communicated with KAK, but many people theorize it is so, based on other things. There is no evidence, from LE, that the killer is a sociopath, or a serial killer, or a psychopath, but many people theorize that he is From other things. No evidence the killer is local or in LE, but some people think so.
We can’t discount anybody’s speculation based on evidence that has been provided since hardly any has been provided. All of our opinions are based on things we have seen and read that did not come from LE. We are all in a way grasping at straws. It is maddening and frustrating and frankly, it’s a shame LE has allowed this to happen.
My point is, everyone’s theory on what happened has merit at this point and deserves respectful discussion instead of being dismissed out of hand like something that should be flushed down the toilet.
The truth will come out eventually and however it falls I will be jubilant whether it is how I thought it would be or not.

this is not all you know
we know its a shocking unusual murder with an odd crime scene.. and many open secrets exposed by the search warrants..and sure its a theory but its based on what we have ..while the majority are dealing with catfishing as an established fact

 

[sandy_80]

KAK and TK are physically different and distinctive, pls explain how both of them could be BG. TK is much too tall. Is BG over 6' tall?

the majority like to discard the video evidence that the girls so bravely captured cause its ( too grainy ) ( totally useless ) and some are calling even a distraction to the investigation !
for me i see an impression weight and a height and shape
lets consider.. there is something called the power of suggestion..in which you go through mental manipulation that can affect what you see
for me i can def rule them out through this alone ..
and if we discard the video/audio ...and no dna
what is exactly left
how on earth anyone looking at this mess of conflicting everything will give the ONE tip YOU NEED

 

[girlhasnoname]

I can see KAK in the BG video. It's not out of the realm of possibility considering the angle and pixelation of the video. I just can't see how there isn't some connection knowing he had contact the day before the murders and his statements and actions afterwards. Too much of a coincidence IMO.

MOO

 

[sandy_80]

he is wearing oversized clothes with stuff inside.. you can visibly see its not just a fat belly under that jacket..and i will say his disguise is very successful since ppl are thinking him overweight and big /huge

 

[flashy09]

he is wearing oversized clothes with stuff inside.. you can visibly see its not just a fat belly under that jacket..and i will say his disguise is very successful since ppl are thinking him overweight and big /huge

Comparing the BG video to the Hoover Dam pictures, what really jumps out to me is the narrowness of BG hips compared to KAK. KAK just has a bigger frame irregardless of weight than BG.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I wish we had a picture of all our suspects side-by-side (I know we can't have it here). I don't think RL looked anything at all like KAK and IMO, neither look like BG.

We don't even know if BG is fat in the middle or just bulked up with clothing.

 

[JnRyan]

We don't even know if BG is fat in the middle or just bulked up with clothing.

Yeah, remember all the theories about having a puppy or baby goat under that coat? The guy reminds me of a lot of workers who do their work outdoors in like construction. Layered clothing. I tend to not believe KAK is the killer, but who knows what physique all those clothes is hiding.

 

[sandy_80]

and where do you think he put his weapons ? its not hard to imagine whats he is hiding underneath..there is that impression of a tool bag that can be there or not.. but its not enough for multiple weapons

 

[IQuestion]

There is no evidence to support that. The hearsay used to make the claim KAK knew she would be there is not evidence.
In my opinion, no one should be accused, via SM or websites, of murder, unless LE has at least named them as a POI or suspect. Especially since LE has stated BG is the murderer and neither KAK or TK are BG.

Hearsay, Hairspray....I don't know the difference and not a first or second year law student, either. But I do know that if you put something out on instagram other people have the ability to find your location in the furtherance (oh so legalease, huh?) of a crime. Here in So Cal, a young lady let it be known she and her boyfriend (PnBRock known for wearing expensive jewelry) would be eating at a local restaurant. The perps (Father, Son & stepmom) saw the location on instagram and showed up 20 minutes later, attempted to rob him and killed him (RIP young man) in the process.
I think the New York Times has better sources than me just typing, In My Opinion. But I am of the same opinion, KAK had the ability to know LG's location via instagram (or other millenial social media) posting.
Michael Moore, the chief of the Los Angeles Police Department, had previously told area reporters the rapper was “brutally attacked by an individual who apparently, or we believe, came to the location after a social media posting of the artist and the woman accompanying him, posting on Instagram a picture of the meal,” according to the New York Times.

Everything We Know About PnB Rock’s Murder So Far

Police have arrested three people in relation to the fatal shooting.

www.vulture.com

A look into the past, is always a good indicator or what could happen now. If I read someone was a fast runner 10 years ago, I would have no problem believing they are probable still pretty fast. If someone won a spelling bee 10 years ago, I would venture to say they are probably still a good speller. These are things I choose to believe: “ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny”