TL4S, Kiddo,(my endearing term for anyone younger than me that I really like) you always come up with the best way to come to a reasonable and plausible conclusion! Yep, I agree A_shots is the connection... but you knew that.
Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams & Liberty (Libby) German - The Delphi Murders - #149
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BISHOP bbm above I noticed you don't post much on this thread, but when you do, I am always interested! I wonder if the word responsible could be a euphemism for a variety of possibilities. "planner"- "designer"-"accomplice"-"master mind"-"future co-defendant"-"look out" - "driver." Anybody else have an idea of what it could mean. (I personally am leaning towards co-defendant.)
sandy_80
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it means the patronising prejudice that believes kids missing are def kids who ran away or are having fun somewhere ignoring their families..in this case the particular bridge area surrounded by properties with no trespass all over ..and the fact the girls asked to be picked up ..should have alerted to a different situation
Per Rich Nye:
Pretrial conference lasted just 4 minutes. Kline appeared on video from the Miami County jail with his attorney. Neither defense or prosecution had any matters to bring before the court. Final pretrial conference confirmed for December 22. Jury trial January 18.
AND
Kline’s attorney says he continues to review discovery with the prosecution. No mention of State Police taking Kline out of jail in August for further investigation.
FOUR minutes? So maybe the final pretrial conference on 22 December will have more after Kline's attorney has finished with the discovery material? (Like 5 minutes.
) It seems both the prosecution and the defense are keeping their cards close. Since Kline's attorney has the discovery materials, I tend to believe he is one saving his say for later and the prosecution just doesn't have anything to respond to at this point. But I'm not an attorney, so that is just speculation on my part.sandy_80 I understood what you meant on your previous post: The tendency to assume two teens could have run off or had a family dispute. Heck, if it had been my family/inlaws they wouldn't have called the police or had a search party out for 3 weeks, much less 3 hours! I am absolutely humbled by how quickly the families called the police and got the community involved in looking for their darling daughters! It absolutely breaks my heartl (And I can tell you it brings me to tears to even recall their valiant efforts to search all night.) Just look at all the activities they were involved in" volley ball, baseball, band, scholatic achievers...these girls were leading the American dreams we all have for our daughters. Immense thanks for reminding us, preconceived thought can affect an investigation in its early stages. Ultimately, the outcome IN MY OPINION would not have changed anything. Someone (horrid monster) wanted to kill. The deliberate walk, the location, the items appearing to bulge from the jacket. Who would commit such a horrible crime. My God, these were children experiencing their first steps of independent adventures. And even as I type "first steps of independent adventures" I can't help but think someone used that to target them.
TheBishop
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That's a huge compliment coming from you @IQuestion, cheers! I might not post often but I'm here everyday- and understand which members are well versed and respected.
I doff my hat to you.
sandy_80
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the podcast (Voices for Justice ) interviews kelsi...and she says libby asked her to go with them to the bridge.. i haven't heard this before
this could have changed events but its useless to go this way
but its another good argument against the catfishing theory.. libby wouldn't ask her sister to go meet a guy online ..
this could have changed events but its useless to go this way
but its another good argument against the catfishing theory.. libby wouldn't ask her sister to go meet a guy online ..
Silver_produce0
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IIRC Kelsi went to hang out with her boyfriend and then to work instead of going to the trails. Maybe Libby asked her as a courtesy knowing she’d say no to the trails but would drop them off anyway.
That is true. I think that it can’t be known as teens are master chess players when it comes to covering their their experiments.
There are a lot of possibilities surrounding the events that morning, but it has always struck me how BP insists the bridge outing just sort of happened. A lot of people have made the valid argument that the girls were being sneaky, and they very well could have been, but I think it is just as likely that the whole thing really was unplanned. KG and another friend were both asked to go along...that doesn't sound like a meetup to me.
I strongly believe that L was being catfished. But, I also do not necessarily believe they planned to meet up with a_shots on the bridge that day. Even if we are to believe the 2020 interview, it's never stated specifically that there was a meeting planned on the 13th, only that, a) L wanted to meet a_shots (in general), and b) a_shots told a friend, after the fact, that he was supposed to meet her but she never showed up.
JMO. I think that if there was a clear communication between L and a_shots about meeting at the bridge, LE would have gotten that off L's phone and/or SC records. I tend to think they do not have that kind of evidence, although a_shot's "supposed to meet that girl but she didn't show" line (if real) does suggest a previous discussion about meeting up. I lean more towards L giving a_shots her address and being stalked/followed to the trails. We know from the ISP release that they want info on a_shots soliciting nudes, trying to obtain addresses, and attempting to meet up with underage girls. L could have been lured into any or all of the above.
The LG AS communication has left evidence it happened but doubt the specifics can be recovered.
Maybe early in, but tech companies don’t keep DM type material very long.
"What if's" to ponder. Especially when suggested someone else was using the Anthony Shots account ie hijacked KAK's personas, cell phone and e-mail. But available info has me thinking that didn't occur outside of his home.
Anthony Shots was registered on 07/20/2016 and Emily Anne, 2015 on the Samsung Galaxy S4.
On Dec. 6, 2021 @ 9:32 PM ISP issues a bulletin:
"Investigators would like any individual that communicated with, met, or attempted to meet the anthony_shots profile to contact law enforcement by utilizing the tip email/phone number: abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com or 765-822-3535."
(Link below) The first line explains the connection of Anthony Shots to the Delphi investigation. Curiously, no cautionary warnings: extremely dangerous , call the police immediately, this man is a murder suspect, do not give out your address, this man is armed, this man is an online predator, etc. Hmmm, So Anthony Shots or anyone currently using that profile is not a danger? And, all the verbage is "past tense." IE, it doesn't state, "If you are currently talking/communicating with Anthony Shots, call 911, you are in emminent danger." IF their was another active user of AnthonyShots, why would LE risk alerting the individual or having evidence erased or destroyed (again)? Is the only user of Anthony Shots account currently incarcerated? Also of note, there is no request for information on anyone communicating with Emily Anne profile even though that is an older profile and included in the 30 charges against KAK. I had hoped LE could find victims via reverse email searches on KAK's devices, but apparently the perp liked using "DM=Direct Messaging" platforms such as Snapchat and Instagram (also mentioned in the bulletin.) And, as @Boxer posted earlier, a lot of direct messaging is not stored by the provider for very long.
content.govdelivery.com
RL died (Covid) 6 weeks after the bulletin's release.
KAK was arrested August 2020
"Once the Indiana State Police presented the criminal case to the Miami County Prosecutor in June of 2020, immediate action was taken by both the Indiana State Police and the Miami County Prosecutor’s Office, which ultimately resulted in Kline’s arrest."
www.wishtv.com
Anthony Shots was registered on 07/20/2016 and Emily Anne, 2015 on the Samsung Galaxy S4.
On Dec. 6, 2021 @ 9:32 PM ISP issues a bulletin:
"Investigators would like any individual that communicated with, met, or attempted to meet the anthony_shots profile to contact law enforcement by utilizing the tip email/phone number: abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com or 765-822-3535."
(Link below) The first line explains the connection of Anthony Shots to the Delphi investigation. Curiously, no cautionary warnings: extremely dangerous , call the police immediately, this man is a murder suspect, do not give out your address, this man is armed, this man is an online predator, etc. Hmmm, So Anthony Shots or anyone currently using that profile is not a danger? And, all the verbage is "past tense." IE, it doesn't state, "If you are currently talking/communicating with Anthony Shots, call 911, you are in emminent danger." IF their was another active user of AnthonyShots, why would LE risk alerting the individual or having evidence erased or destroyed (again)? Is the only user of Anthony Shots account currently incarcerated? Also of note, there is no request for information on anyone communicating with Emily Anne profile even though that is an older profile and included in the 30 charges against KAK. I had hoped LE could find victims via reverse email searches on KAK's devices, but apparently the perp liked using "DM=Direct Messaging" platforms such as Snapchat and Instagram (also mentioned in the bulletin.) And, as @Boxer posted earlier, a lot of direct messaging is not stored by the provider for very long.
Detectives with the Delphi Investigation Seek Information
KAK was arrested August 2020
"Once the Indiana State Police presented the criminal case to the Miami County Prosecutor in June of 2020, immediate action was taken by both the Indiana State Police and the Miami County Prosecutor’s Office, which ultimately resulted in Kline’s arrest."
ISP releases statement on delayed Kegan Kline arrest, 'anthony_shots' profile
DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Indiana State Police have released a statement on the delayed arrest in a child *advertiser censored* case that may be connected to the murders of Abigail “Abby” Williams and Liberty “Libby” German near Delphi. News 8 began asking questions after ISP asked for tips on Dec. 6 regarding...
www.wishtv.com
Countem
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Sorry, could not post official link because of an advertiser-censored word in the URL.
The link is to a FOX 32 News article titled, “Man linked to Delphi murders heading to trial on child p* charges.”
No substantial new information.
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What I am saying is that the truth can be counterintuitive.
As for your point, there are sexual offenses that do not meet the legal definition of violence -- taking a nude photo of yourself or someone else and posting it in a public forum; using a sex worker, indecent exposure, the 13 year old in Colorado who ended up on the registry for giving too many hugs, the 13 year old girl charged for having consensual sex with a 12 year old boy, etc. See:
Federal Case of 10-Year-Old on Sex Charges Raises Questions
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gregjrichards
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I just wanted to say thank you to all of you for continuing to post in Abbey and Liberty’s thread and for the legal updates relating to KK‘s CSAM case it is much appreciated. I’m really sorry that Abbey and Libby’s families are likely facing another Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year without charges being filed against the perp(s) who are believed to be involved with their murders. Hopefully even though things appear to be quiet publicly with the murder investigation progress is being made and there will be significant developments next year.
I read that Libby’s Sister Kelsi is studying Forensic Psychology and that she hopes to become Victim’s Advocate in the future. I have a great deal of admiration for everything Kelsi is doing to try and assist Law Enforcement with their appeals for information etc, by talking about the case on podcast interviews and online. Unfortunately Kelsi has posted online that classmates in her class have watched YouTube videos published by Delphi Law Enforcement about the murders and talked about the investigation, whilst sitting beside her without being aware she is Libby’s Sister.
In addition Kelsi has also posted online that she has understandably found some of her studies very difficult emotionally because of how they relate to the murders of her Sister and Abbey. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be for Kelsi, everyone in her family and Abbey’s families as they continue to wait hoping arrest(s) will be made. Kelsi announced earlier this year that she is engaged. I am really pleased for Kelsi and her Fiancé and I am glad Kelsi and her family have a wedding to look forward to.
I read that Libby’s Sister Kelsi is studying Forensic Psychology and that she hopes to become Victim’s Advocate in the future. I have a great deal of admiration for everything Kelsi is doing to try and assist Law Enforcement with their appeals for information etc, by talking about the case on podcast interviews and online. Unfortunately Kelsi has posted online that classmates in her class have watched YouTube videos published by Delphi Law Enforcement about the murders and talked about the investigation, whilst sitting beside her without being aware she is Libby’s Sister.
In addition Kelsi has also posted online that she has understandably found some of her studies very difficult emotionally because of how they relate to the murders of her Sister and Abbey. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be for Kelsi, everyone in her family and Abbey’s families as they continue to wait hoping arrest(s) will be made. Kelsi announced earlier this year that she is engaged. I am really pleased for Kelsi and her Fiancé and I am glad Kelsi and her family have a wedding to look forward to.
The FBI agent, in the RL probable cause, said that in this kind of crime, the killer will often take souvenirs and/or memorialize the event through taking pictures/videos. RI described the CS as "odd," "bizarre," and with "signatures." TL once said he could think of several people who were capable of these murders.
So I guess I feel like the FBI was probably able to make a productive profile early on, to which certain individuals in the area must have fit, but whatever evidence LE had, wasn't (and maybe still isn't) enough to pin anyone. IMO, it definitely feels like a crime that could be psychologically personal to the killer. I just don't think, and am totally guessing here, that the killer killed them to protect anyone, or out of revenge, or as a ritual, etc. Because of what RI said, along with the FBI agent and even TL, I think a very distinct type of person did this, and to satisfy a very distinct inclination.
I've never felt the location was significant to the killer, in and of itself, because it just feels more like the first good place to corner the girls if he was following them on the trail. My perception is of stalking...he follows them on the trail, across the bridge, knowing then that every route back to where they came will be blocked by him, a bridge, a creek, a ravine... That's not to say he'd never been there before, but perhaps he hadn't chosen that location beforehand. IDK. And others have made valid arguments for the killer choosing and even preparing that spot, which could be true, too.
For a long time I believed it was a random killer who saw an opportunity and took it. I used to think maybe he, this random person, had seen them driving to the trails and getting dropped off. I thought he must have had reason to be on those back roads to see them. Even LE (was it KR or DC?) once said, "why was he there?" Now, with all this a_shots business, which includes obtaining underage girls' addresses and stalking type behavior within that circle, I just can't help but wonder more about them being followed that day, except not from random. If he had L's address, that would explain why he was there. If he was stalking L, that would explain the distinct inclination. Perhaps it was a sudden opportunity where these two young girls whom he had been watching, were presented to him in an isolated location. JMO.
So I guess I feel like the FBI was probably able to make a productive profile early on, to which certain individuals in the area must have fit, but whatever evidence LE had, wasn't (and maybe still isn't) enough to pin anyone. IMO, it definitely feels like a crime that could be psychologically personal to the killer. I just don't think, and am totally guessing here, that the killer killed them to protect anyone, or out of revenge, or as a ritual, etc. Because of what RI said, along with the FBI agent and even TL, I think a very distinct type of person did this, and to satisfy a very distinct inclination.
I've never felt the location was significant to the killer, in and of itself, because it just feels more like the first good place to corner the girls if he was following them on the trail. My perception is of stalking...he follows them on the trail, across the bridge, knowing then that every route back to where they came will be blocked by him, a bridge, a creek, a ravine... That's not to say he'd never been there before, but perhaps he hadn't chosen that location beforehand. IDK. And others have made valid arguments for the killer choosing and even preparing that spot, which could be true, too.
For a long time I believed it was a random killer who saw an opportunity and took it. I used to think maybe he, this random person, had seen them driving to the trails and getting dropped off. I thought he must have had reason to be on those back roads to see them. Even LE (was it KR or DC?) once said, "why was he there?" Now, with all this a_shots business, which includes obtaining underage girls' addresses and stalking type behavior within that circle, I just can't help but wonder more about them being followed that day, except not from random. If he had L's address, that would explain why he was there. If he was stalking L, that would explain the distinct inclination. Perhaps it was a sudden opportunity where these two young girls whom he had been watching, were presented to him in an isolated location. JMO.
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I still lean toward a random killer with some sadistic reason for these murders. I say 'lean toward' because now with the anthony_shots possibility I have to consider that as well.
UnapologeticallyAspie
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What’s interesting to me is when I was trying to decode the link between Lyric and Elizabeth’s case in conjunction with Abby and Libby’s case, I thought that 12/6/21 was going to be the day that the (probable/possible) SK was going to strike again. If this was in fact committed by a SK (or even the same)."What if's" to ponder. Especially when suggested someone else was using the Anthony Shots account ie hijacked KAK's personas, cell phone and e-mail. But available info has me thinking that didn't occur outside of his home.
Anthony Shots was registered on 07/20/2016 and Emily Anne, 2015 on the Samsung Galaxy S4.
On Dec. 6, 2021 @ 9:32 PM ISP issues a bulletin:
"Investigators would like any individual that communicated with, met, or attempted to meet the anthony_shots profile to contact law enforcement by utilizing the tip email/phone number: abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com or 765-822-3535."
(Link below) The first line explains the connection of Anthony Shots to the Delphi investigation. Curiously, no cautionary warnings: extremely dangerous , call the police immediately, this man is a murder suspect, do not give out your address, this man is armed, this man is an online predator, etc. Hmmm, So Anthony Shots or anyone currently using that profile is not a danger? And, all the verbage is "past tense." IE, it doesn't state, "If you are currently talking/communicating with Anthony Shots, call 911, you are in emminent danger." IF their was another active user of AnthonyShots, why would LE risk alerting the individual or having evidence erased or destroyed (again)? Is the only user of Anthony Shots account currently incarcerated? Also of note, there is no request for information on anyone communicating with Emily Anne profile even though that is an older profile and included in the 30 charges against KAK. I had hoped LE could find victims via reverse email searches on KAK's devices, but apparently the perp liked using "DM=Direct Messaging" platforms such as Snapchat and Instagram (also mentioned in the bulletin.) And, as @Boxer posted earlier, a lot of direct messaging is not stored by the provider for very long.
RL died (Covid) 6 weeks after the bulletin's release.Detectives with the Delphi Investigation Seek Information
KAK was arrested August 2020
"Once the Indiana State Police presented the criminal case to the Miami County Prosecutor in June of 2020, immediate action was taken by both the Indiana State Police and the Miami County Prosecutor’s Office, which ultimately resulted in Kline’s arrest."
ISP releases statement on delayed Kegan Kline arrest, 'anthony_shots' profile
DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Indiana State Police have released a statement on the delayed arrest in a child *advertiser censored* case that may be connected to the murders of Abigail “Abby” Williams and Liberty “Libby” German near Delphi. News 8 began asking questions after ISP asked for tips on Dec. 6 regarding...
moo
Justice101
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Wow, strangely silent on here now. Last post was 2 days ago.
carbuff
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Yeah, I was with you on that date being likely, but I never saw a likely crime to match.
I'm starting to have my doubts whether the killer is still alive--and I don't mean RL. Some unknown dude who died with his deeds still hidden.
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