IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #15

[Elainera]

That white loop coming out the top of his jacket looks to me like the handle of a plastic bag.
Maybe
He has it like that cause it's easy to grab and pull out of his coat.
Maybe has zip ties and.duct tape.
But that's what that looks like to me

Just jumping off your post Eileen.
The possibility of it being the handles of a plastic bag has been mentioned many times. I'm not convinced because who would walk around like that? Not in the sense that it looks odd but in the sense that these 'handles' flapping around in front of your chin would be a nuisance. At least to me. If I ever had a reason to tuck a plastic bag into my jacket I would certainly tuck the handles in as well. To me, the idea is just too unlikely.

 

[terpstra1]

I wonder what the law is for LE to go and collect dna samples from even random people. Thinking maybe certain check points or areas ect. Dna samples can show a family match, if even that came back as a positive, it's many steps closer.

In NY they need a warrant. They can ask but you have the right to say no.

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[Ophiuchus]

The sharp angle he's leaning towards his left while lifting his right leg in stride, with his hands in his pockets, tells me his hips are in very good shape (not arthritic or causing pain). He has good flexion in hip flexors and strength in his glutes to push off and land at that angle.

I would wager in the opposite direction of this because he appears to be pigeon toed. This is a symptom of tight hips and common in someone who sits for extended periods of time. Doesn't quite look like an office worker... but perhaps someone who drives a lot.

 

[DaisyChains]

I just wanted to encourage many of the new posters to mosey around on some other threads and contribute/bring attention to the many other cases we have on websleuths. There are just too many sad cases like this that need our help and attention. I hate the idea of putting all of our eggs in one basket. The contributions to these countless threads have been amazing, but lets not forget that there are plenty of other cases that need attention.

If you start feeling burnt out or borderline obsessed with this case it helps to take a break and focus on another case. I have to make myself do it often. JMO

 

[GGE]

Hello, first post but I have been reading every thread as you guys posted. Except for half of the last thread. I actually had a lot of work today. A lot of good things have been stated/discussed. I do want to share my pictures that I worked up in PS of the BG.

I had created my own gif of him walking just for my own sake, I know its been created and posted by another a few threads ago too.

However, I did not see where someone showed the gun in his pocket. With his first photo where he is looking at the girls it's not as visible. Then in my opinion he looks down to not show his face and turns towards them and the outline of the gun just jumps out and smacks me in the face. This is all my own conjecture of course.

I made the images in b&w also to see if anything was easier to visualize. I did not alter the image except to add some more contrast.

I also do think he concealed himself, that he is not as thick as one may possibly believe. His legs appears thinner in the knees and items or something shoved in his coat. Other then that I cannot state anything about him, take it as you will its just my opinion.

SaveSave​

Wow, with the outline and new contrast I can certainly see what you're saying.

I've felt that there is something in his coat because, as someone else pointed out a couple of threads ago, you can see how the fabric on his coat on the left of the photo is pulled downward away from his shoulder, like there's something heavy in it. If he was just big in the belly the fabric of the coat would be pulled from the sides, down near the waist and belly, causing horizontal fabric ripples, not the vertical ones we see. JMO.

 

[Sconnie]

I see the outline but I must say it's an odd way to carry a gun. I can't imagine anyone with gun experience would carry it that way. It's too awkward, he'd want to be able to reach in and pull it out with out shooting himself.

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What if, as speculated before, he is left-handed? Is it possible he could retrieve the gun from the front opening of his jacket, not the pocket? Some type of opening inside the zipper (buttons?) opening? I hope that makes sense.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Geez...when I really think about this, it's unbelievable. Who murders two young girls? Yes, there are the family murder-suicides where kids are killed, but random strangers killing kids is off the charts. Even inmates will tell you that you don't kill children. It's taboo.

what kind of human are we dealing with here??

Sadly, there has been two children abducted/murdered at one time in the past so while still rare is not unheard of.

In 1997 Washington State did an in depth study involving 600 children who had been abducted and murdered. Then in 2006 they added an additional 175 cases. All of these cases were solved with the perpetrators known.

That collectively is 775 children who were abducted and murdered. Now these are just cases that have been solved. There are thousands of unsolved cases concerning missing young teens who have never been found dead or alive. I think there are way more children murdered than we can even imagine and many of them murdered by strangers IMO. Cases where there is no link between the victim/s and suspect are the hardest cases to solve. Imo, these two teens were murdered by someone neither of them knew.

The study is very interesting. When they went back in 2006 to add the additional 175 child abduction/murder cases they found some changes from the 1997 in depth study they did. These study was partially funded by the DOJ and is one of the largest studies on the subject.

Here are the key facts and findings:

2006 Child Abduction Murder Study

In late 1993, the Criminal Division of the Washington State Attorney General's Office undertook a 3-1/2 year research project, partially funded by the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, to study the investigation of child abduction murder cases.

In this first research project, published in 1997, researchers reviewed more than 600 child abduction murder cases across the United States, then interviewed the investigating detectives. This data provided law enforcement valuable insight into what investigative techniques tend to be most productive.

Now the Attorney General’s Office has released a follow-up study, including 175 additional solved cases. The additional cases generally reflect and support the findings in the original report with several significant and definite differences:

With more killers identified, researchers found threat that the killer will be a friend or acquaintance is nearly equal to that of a stranger. * The stranger abductor/murderer remains at the top at 44% while those who knew the victim/s even casually was 42%.

The probability that the killer’s name will come up during the first week of the investigation has decreased.

The use of *advertiser censored* by killers as a trigger to murder has increased.

Key findings:

In 74 percent of the missing children homicide cases studied, the child murder victim was female and the average age was 11 years old.

In 44 percent of the cases studied, the victims and killers were strangers, but in 42 percent of the cases, the victims and killers were friends or acquaintances.

Only about 14 percent of the cases studied involved parents or intimates killing the child.

Almost two-thirds of the killers in these cases have prior arrests for violent crimes, with slightly more than half of those prior crimes committed against children.

The primary motive for the child abduction killer in the cases studied was sexual assault.

In nearly 60 percent of the cases studied, more than two hours passed between the time someone realized the child was missing and the time police were notified.

In 76 percent of the missing children homicide cases studied, the child was dead within three hours of the abduction–and in 88.5 percent of the cases the child was dead within 24 hours.

Be aware that children are not immune from abduction because they are close to home. More than half of the study’s abductions took place within three city blocks of the victim’s home.


http://www.atg.wa.gov/child-abduction-murder-research

 

[CoreyRocks]

So it appears there is much more footage and audio on the phone that was recovered. However, they only released a portion in order to preserve the investigation ?

It seems to me he must've scared them in some way before he attacked. Maybe his body language. In the still, his foot is raised in a manner that suggests to me that he was walking super fast. Anyone agree? I have a feeling he began approaching the girls quickly and it spooked them so one began filming. But he caught up and likely had a weapon he used to control them.

This is terrible. I wish they had run. It's important to teach our kids that they have a better chance of survival running away than complying. Even when the person has a gun. Don't let yourself ever be moved, transported or tied.

I think the man was not known to them otherwise he would not have been trailing them or have been alarming to them if they saw him approaching.

Hi gitana1 good to see you again. Sending thoughts and hugs still, to you and your brother.

 

[steelman]

Hi everyone. I've been busy with family and "life" (what's that?) and have missed a whole thread plus 12 pages - can anyone tell me if I missed anything of note? thanks!

No, you didn't. Nobody knows who he is or where he is, and he hasn't been arrested.

Day 14

 

[Ophiuchus]

Looks like he is wearing one of those concealed suspender gun holsters based on the direction the gun outline goes.

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It's certainly not concealing very well then through all those thick clothes.

 

[GGE]

No, you didn't. Nobody knows who he is or where he is, and he hasn't been arrested.

Day 14

Thank you!

 

[Yellow Rose]

I tried earlier, but it was nothing as fine as this person's. What's odd is it appears to be in backwards. Who pockets their gun like that? Especially if you're about to use it? IMO.

It's perfect if you're left handed

 

[Jabarn]

That had not occurred to me - although it should have. I really hope LE has more than that small audio clip.

IMO opinion, they do. That being said, it may be too sensationalistic and they have to balance the harm it would cause to the families versus the amount of leads it would produce. I was impressed with the information the local, state and FBI investigators did release at the press conference. My hope is they don't have to share any more of the cell phone evidence than is needed. I, too, keep checking to see that they have found the man in the blue coat, but every day that goes by, I start to get more worried. I am hoping the DNA evidence is good. I also hope this perpetrator, or those who know him, decides to step forward for these families.

 

[Onaliv]

If I had to take a guess............I'd say the main reason that LE is trying to hold off on issuing any more of the audio is because you can most likely hear both of the two girls pleading with the guy as they walk along, begging him to let them go, crying, etc.............. Knowing the audio you are listening to is some of the last things they will ever say would be very troubling to a lot of people.......and rightly so. It may not be so much what he has to say as it is what the girls are saying.

But we also know they have at least 5-10 seconds of moving video of him walking across the bridge towards the girls. Why they aren't releasing that to the public is the part that I am really struggling to understand the most. Seeing this guy walk and how he carries himself might be the biggest clue yet............and yet LE stubbornly refuses to budge on it. They have it, and they can release it.......but ??

IIRC at the press conference, it was stated that the audio sample was the best they had... if that's accurate I'd say the remaining audio would be of little use for public release. I do agree that it's strange they did not release any actual video footage of the suspect...


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[janesmith787]

So it appears there is much more footage and audio on the phone that was recovered. However, they only released a portion in order to preserve the investigation ?

It seems to me he must've scared them in some way before he attacked. Maybe his body language. In the still, his foot is raised in a manner that suggests to me that he was walking super fast. Anyone agree? I have a feeling he began approaching the girls quickly and it spooked them so one began filming. But he caught up and likely had a weapon he used to control them.

This is terrible. I wish they had run. It's important to teach our kids that they have a better chance of survival running away than complying. Even when the person has a gun. Don't let yourself ever be moved, transported or tied.

I think the man was not known to them otherwise he would not have been trailing them or have been alarming to them if they saw him approaching.

Who's to say they didn't try and run?! We have no idea what kind of situation these girls faced...she was at least wise enough to film. It's so much easier to say what someone should or shouldn't do when not in the situation. JMO


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[TTF14]

If I had to take a guess............I'd say the main reason that LE is trying to hold off on issuing any more of the audio is because you can most likely hear both of the two girls pleading with the guy as they walk along, begging him to let them go, crying, etc.............. Knowing the audio you are listening to is some of the last things they will ever say would be very troubling to a lot of people.......and rightly so. It may not be so much what he has to say as it is what the girls are saying.

But we also know they have at least 5-10 seconds of moving video of him walking across the bridge towards the girls. Why they aren't releasing that to the public is the part that I am really struggling to understand the most. Seeing this guy walk and how he carries himself might be the biggest clue yet............and yet LE stubbornly refuses to budge on it. They have it, and they can release it.......but ??

I totally agree. And I can't imagine what damage hearing that video would do to so many people. Not only family and friends, but every other person in the world who hears it and has struggled with some sort of trauma, has PTSD, etc. It's definitely a double edged sword .

 

[NancyDrew007]

Hello, first post but I have been reading every thread as you guys posted. Except for half of the last thread. I actually had a lot of work today. A lot of good things have been stated/discussed. I do want to share my pictures that I worked up in PS of the BG.

I had created my own gif of him walking just for my own sake, I know its been created and posted by another a few threads ago too.

However, I did not see where someone showed the gun in his pocket. With his first photo where he is looking at the girls it's not as visible. Then in my opinion he looks down to not show his face and turns towards them and the outline of the gun just jumps out and smacks me in the face. This is all my own conjecture of course.

I made the images in b&w also to see if anything was easier to visualize. I did not alter the image except to add some more contrast.

I also do think he concealed himself, that he is not as thick as one may possibly believe. His legs appears thinner in the knees and items or something shoved in his coat. Other then that I cannot state anything about him, take it as you will its just my opinion.

SaveSave​

Does this laser tag gun resemble the shape of the gun outlined above? Thinking BG may not have carried a real gun and that is a possibility why it isn't holstered or stored the normal way.

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[WestieMom]

Why is it that every person I end up sleuthing from Delphi, Lafayette, Monticello, etc is a convicted felon, heroin/spice/meth addict/dealer, thief, fraud, violent criminal? Certainly not implying every person living in the aforementioned areas is criminal, but there are plenty!

Welcome to Indiana...
no one wants to realize how bad things are around here! look up our murder rate in relation per capita... granted most is drug related for central Indiana.

 

[GangaMa]

Long-time lurker on this site; first-time poster. I registered to post, after reading all the threads.

Thoughts on some characteristics of this person, from looking at his stride and hip/knee positions, and what we see of his face:

1) His face appears to be young, because he's still showing fat deposits. From face alone, I would guess late 30s. But his body is that of a man in his mid-40s. I would guess 45, plus/minus a few years, so 43-48. He's probably been described as "baby-faced" by friends/colleagues. His skin coloration suggests he's sandy-haired or there's strawberry-blond hair in the family.

2) Although he appears stocky in his torso, he's fairly athletic and agile in his core and probably his upper body, though less so from his knees down. The sharp angle he's leaning towards his left while lifting his right leg in stride, with his hands in his pockets, tells me his hips are in very good shape (not arthritic or causing pain). He has good flexion in hip flexors and strength in his glutes to push off and land at that angle. If he was off-balance in the least in that step or he had a weak core he would have his arms out. So this is someone who has extremely good balance and has probably worked outdoors where he's had to use his balance and agility.

3) His knees appear to be stiff and lacking flexion. Most of his flexion comes from his hips and hip flexors. So he may be arthritic in his knees.

4) Something about his stride and balance suggests to me he is left-handed. I haven't mirrored the images to see if I would think the opposite if they were reversed.

Nice observations. I know a physical therapist who could tell you anything you'd want to know about a person's musculo-skeletal anomalies by seeing a 60 second walk. I'm sure LE has access to that same kind of talent. If you put that together with the DNA info, they should be able to narrow down the suspect field. The main problem then would be a deliberately hidden suspect.

 

[Falling Down]

But what if it is a gun but not in the pocket of the jacket, but rather in a holster directly under the jacket? If the BG is left-handed, it would be easy for him to unsnap the jacket and reach for the gun. JMO MOO IMO:scared:

In a previous thread, someone posted an image of a type of cross draw holster I'd not seen before, it hangs down some and more forward than a typical holster for concealed carry.

Definitely plausible.