IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #20

[mpnola]

So I've seen conflicting reports on the DNA. Maybe we can get a list going of the links.

I'm behind now but I did a section in the media thread. This article I refound about voluntary dna needs to be added there

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[Penny4them]

i still dont understand why LE hasn't released any more video or audio. anyone know why? are they still sticking by the whole being able to verify a tip by unique information thing?

Hi, obviously my own opinion, but I stick with the aka BG, was watching the girls from their arrival at the trail or he saw them at some point as they were crossing the bridge.

He then travelled to the south end &
I hold with the fact he entered the bridge from the south, passed the girls going the opposite direction then turned & its at this point we get Libby's frames from her video.

I think he came up behind Abby and she was physically subdued in some way & then it was sadly all downhill from there in every sense.

Any further video or recordings I believe will be horrific for the family to endure and let's be honest, we have two pics of him now and a voice recording and he's still out there able to act out his sick plans again.

I think he is a seriously dangerous predator who has killed/raped before, he is not dumb at all, he may be registered in the police system for some crime but he has managed to evade LE previous I believe just as he's doing now.
I believe he came to hunt and kill,
He came prepared.

He was noticable, I would have noticed him, he looks odd & weird, people would have remembered seeing him in the car park, on the bridge, he was flying under everyone's radar as he is now.

 

[websleuthin]

I hope she's found safe.

From trips home in the past, I know there is an area between Louisville, KY and and nearly to Columbus, Indiana that is super creepy. It doesn't matter what rest stop or gas station we stop, there is always creepiness.

I live about an hour south of Columbus..and its getting too close to home . I agree with the creepiness. The meth and heroin problem around this area now is devastating..you don't know what these people are on or what they're
thinking.....i'll be heavily armed if I go mushroom hunting this year....ugg...how scarey. Hope this is solved soon.

 

[Falling Down]

Long time lurker on Websleuths, I felt compelled to post and I'm not entirely sure I am within TOS because I can't seem to find the link to the sheriff's statement that I want to bounce off of. Completely frustrated and hoping someone can help me link this. However, I can't get this case off my mind, it is haunting me. And I read a news article somewhere where the sheriff / some other authoritative figure stated that people need to watch their kids, "know what is going on with them", etc etc. I now cannot find it. But it struck a chord with me, and I feel that reading between the lines that this statement points to some sort of SM involvement, some form of contact between the girls & BG prior to the crime... Maybe he posed as a teenage guy there to meet them, somehow I feel that this statement by LE points to this was not isolated, they were targeted somehow. I am having nightmares about this case and I hope that they are close to solving it. If nothing new in the next few days I think they NEED to release more video / audio to the public. No matter how gruesome, someone somewhere knows this guy and his voice / mannerisms.

OT but I can't figure out how to upload a profile pic... lol or change anything else on my profile. Been a member since 2010, can't even remember which case brought me here, but I've followed them all. As a new mama, a local murder almost drove me crazy (involved kids) and I then began following these cases in attempts to "harden" my heart, although it has done the complete opposite. I want justice for these girls. And so many others.

ETA OMG I found it! YAY ME!! "Sgt. Kim Riley said parents should keep a close eye on their children. "I think people need to be cautious and careful," Riley said. "Parents should make sure they know where their children are and what their children are doing, and if nothing else, know what's going on in their lives. That's the most important thing I can say at this point in time."

http://fox59.com/2017/02/15/police-...-in-case-of-missing-carroll-county-teenagers/

From roughly that Thursday or maybe Friday, and checking this great site, I leaning towards a SM connection.

A few other members and myself wondered in our posts if we were crazy, because we thoight he forced them off of rhe SE part of the bridge. Members here (and I'm just generalizing, not judging), right off the bat were using BG's appearance to try and gage what was up with this dude.

Things are not always what they may seem, folks. Monsters like this one plan horrible crimes like this one. Days, weeks, or even months ahead, I don't know. I've never met this type of monster, that I'm aware of. I've worked around a guy who ended up getting convicted of being in possession of over nine terabytes of child *advertiser censored*, and he ended up in a federal pen for quite a few years. When he got arrested and charged, I thought "Yeah, he did it".

These monsters are among us, in a way.

MOO is this was a crime which was planned for well in advance. He stalked the territory, and there's a possibility he stalked his prey, online.

Cold. Calculating. Monstrous.

I'm convinced that because of what I've stated above, LE have not revealed much about the crimes in question.

 

[littlestix]

From WTHR in Indy

http://www.wthr.com/article/everyone-wants-to-help-in-delphi-investigation

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[Falling Down]

Not sure if this has been brought up, but being sick with pneumonia and now the other flu has had me in bed reading a lot. I came across a few cases that peaked my interest with Liberty and Abigail on my mind. If it has been already said than I apologize. The first case is the murder of two sixth grade friends in the woods of Oklahoma. Kevin Sweat was charged with the murders of Skyla Whitaker and Taylor Placke with first pleading non-guilty and than guilty bc he thought they were two monsters in the woods. The strange thing is that even though they recovered the shells of the bullets that killed both girls and the bones of Kevin Sweat's girlfriend in a fire pit on his father's property, none of his dna was present on either of the two girls. One of the two girls, (if I remember right) had her shorts partially taken off and its been speculated that the dna belonged to another suspect, one that they decided to not pursue after the conviction of Kevin Sweat. Here is the thread if anyone wants to read it: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ker-11-amp-Taylor-Placker-13-Found-Murdered-1 This was also featured on a recent episode of Shadow of Doubt on ID, on 01/31 of this year.

The other case that I came about was the murder of Justin Bloxom. The killer, Brian Horn used social media (myspace) and text messages to lure Justin to his death. This is one of the cases that haunts me. Horn used his girlfriend's computer to contact Justin and if I remember correctly the girlfriend had some part in Justin's murder. This was another show on the ID Network, Web of Lies Season 2 episode 12.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Stonewall-31-March-2010&highlight=brian+horn

I'm not writing every single fact about each murder but I wanted to share this in the hopes that maybe even the smallest thing in both murders can help profile Abigail & Liberty's killer. Humans are predictable and maybe the experience the officers and detectives of Justin, Skyla & Taylor's cases can help this current investigation.

Last part, (I hate being this sick) I want to point out that the girlfriend of Sweat was murdered by him and Horn used his girlfriend to prey on a child with no regard on the repercussions that would be placed on her. Both these women (and many others in past murders) kept silent to protect their boyfriend, friend, son, husband, etc and what horrible outcomes each had by being silent.

If this is a duplicate, I apologize. Knowledge is power and any tip can lead to the arrest of Liberty and Abigail's killer. Well, i'm off to bed in hopes that maybe tomorrow will be a better day.

This ties in with one of my posts from yesterday.

Online predators will use any means at their disposal to perpetrate crimes against others. So it stands to reason why so many here at WS have wondered about whether or not there is an online connection with these murders in Delphi, IN.

 

[margarita25]

rsbm

These monsters are among us, in a way.

MOO is this was a crime which was planned for well in advance. He stalked the territory, and there's a possibility he stalked his prey, online.

Cold. Calculating. Monstrous.

I'm convinced that because of what I've stated above, LE have not revealed much about the crimes in question.

I think so as well (not necessarily online though) but yeah Professional Child Molester, Professional Child Murderer. Professional Pedophile. Yeah, that's what he is...you know Travis Forbes, skit bag up here with various MOs, killed KM up here in Denver, anyway, his big thing was making deals after the fact so he wouldn't be known as a rapist in prison.

Anyway, it appears "BG" has illuded all of mankind. Karma is a you know what. And looking over your shoulder 24/7 is gonna suck bad. Disgusting piece of filth.

 

[margarita25]

From WTHR in Indy

http://www.wthr.com/article/everyone-wants-to-help-in-delphi-investigation

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'Everyone wants to help' in Delphi investigation

 

[seemsfishy]

Greetings from Italy.

I'm following this case just out of curiosity. I often give a look to FBI website and searching more information about this case on google i have stumbled upon this forum.

Since unfortunatelly I have no time to read all the threads and pages back, I would like to know if has been already discussed about a particular on the picture of the suspect. If you did already, you can delete my post and i apologize for that.

please see attachment.

this is the original photo posted by Sgt Slocum.

what/who exactly is the thing/person on the red circle? is another person? is the background? is just my mind blowing?

thank you for the efforts you are putting on this i will follow those threads until the case will be solved. we hope soon.

may the poor souls of that two young ladies rest in peace.

edit: sorry for any typo.

Ciao

NOTE HERE !!! What I notice about this guy that is "distinct" is that he has a type of walk called a "duck walk" that is where you walk and your feet are not pointed straight ahead. Notice is "planted right foot" it's on about a 45 degree angle. Not many people walk like this in the population at large. ( very few) I'd say the rails on the track are about 7 inches high off the ground. If this is the BG ( bridge guy)- then he's stalky, about 5' 9" and walks with a "duck walk"-feet pointing at angles. This walk eliminates a lot of people, as it looks like he has quite a severe, angled duck walk. If they have his voice as well, they should be able to catch him. I've also noticed many overweight people have a "duck walk."

 

[margarita25]

So, Klunder killed himself when the heat was on. I wasn't really worried about suicide til this moment, thinkibg about everything, Kathlynn Sheperd. And the crazy coincidental significance of the bridge she ended up getting thrown off.

Remember they searched those a few pig manure pits.


So, LE, question for the next PC. Have you guys been able to conclusively rule out everyone at "the plant"?

 

[Penny4them]

So, Klunder killed himself when the heat was on. I wasn't really worried about suicide til this moment, thinkibg about everything, Kathlynn Sheperd. Th crazy significance of the bridge she ended up getting thrown off.


You guys remember the awful searches of the pig manure captures?

I would love to see this brought to justice but if he suicides then that's a good result too, if him being stopped from hurting one more child or adult is the outcome then it's a win win as far as I can see.

 

[Lilibet]

I cannot help but feel that February 13th holds a certain and very important significance to BG.

I don't feel, based on everything I have read, that this was totally random but I can't bring myself to believe it was a "planned" attack. This person screams "Baby Boomer" generation to me....someone who doesn't fully understand the power and importance of cell phones and like devices.

My reasons for these 2 theories is.... If it was planned and he understood the power/presence of technology, he would have taken the time to check their bodies for their phones. If it was planned, he would have known to make sure that evidence was not left behind. Or if he is of the Baby Boomer Generation or older, he would likely have not understood the importance of disposing of that evidence, therefore, leaving it behind for detectives to find and process.

Just MOO....

Libby and Abby...you are HEROES! And you are going to be the ones to lead investigators to your killer from beyond the grave! Rest peacefully sweet girls!

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:welcome: ashley. <modsnip>

Now about those Baby Boomers (age 53-71 in 2017) being naive about cell phone technology...while you could be right in this case, I have to give you a good-natured hard time about age stereotypes. While I expect there are plenty of Boomers who are clueless about what phones can do, most of us pounced on the first iPhones and iPads and iWatches that were produced, as my 72 year old husband did. I'm at the very oldest end of Boomers and even I know enough not to leave a phone at a crime scene! I'm teasing you, of course , and you do make a valid point. I'm just not sure BG is that old. Personally, I would put him in GenX at 38-52 or even a little younger.

The best laid plans of even experienced SKs go awry and they make mistakes and get caught. So this BG could either be a bumbling opportunistic amateur or a meticulous planner SK who overlooked a phone. I'm not sure age will be the deciding factor in leaving the phone. JMO

But whatever you do folks, don't sell the Boomers and beyond short when it comes to technology. I have friends approaching and over 90 who use iPads and smart phones! They just call in the great grandkids when they need help.
:HHJP:

 

[Gecko100]

What I am a bit baffled about is that he allegedly threw the girls clothing in the river and left the cell behind. Seems a bit weird.

 

[Scarlett12]

What I am a bit baffled about is that he allegedly threw the girls clothing in the river and left the cell behind. Seems a bit weird.

Libby may have thrown it and he couldn't find it... or highly likely that no one has found it yet.

The photos and video could have came from the cloud or have been uploaded to a site. Liberty was definitely thinking on her feet and I think she knew she had to preserve the evidence.




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[KyMom]

What I am a bit baffled about is that he allegedly threw the girls clothing in the river and left the cell behind. Seems a bit weird.

I've thought about this too. I was thinking maybe Libby laid or dropped her cell down in the grass close by or something, where he didn't spot it when he was leaving, or maybe he did see it, but didn't realize she had recorded him on it and just left it there.

 

[Nancee Drue]

I think BG looks like he is walking in a hurry, and not just out for an afternoon stroll.I think he possibly had hiked on that bridge before, February 13. He walks with his head down, perhaps to hide his face( or maybe just because the sun was in his eyes?) His clothing doesn't look extremely dirty, or wrinkled, so I am guessing he may be walking from his car which may be parked fairly close. He could have jumped off a train, or hitch hiked. But had he hitched hiked, the driver, or someone would possibly have called the police about possibly seeing BG. And if he jumped off a train, or hitch hiked, he might look more disheveled. And...where would BG go after he leaves the bridge, if he had no car to drive away? I don't think BG is from the area, unless he is new there, because no one in the community recognizes him, yet. I think he looks to be about 5-10 to 6 feet tall, and strong, and a bit stocky. At first I thought he might be under 30, but not I am not so sure. If he was under 30, wouldn't he have known to smash the girl's cell phones? And, the enlarged pictures make BG look older, I think, than the smaller pictures.

I am just thinking, and guessing about BG. The above is my opinion.

 

[ashleybruemleve]

:welcome: ashley. <modsnip>

Now about those Baby Boomers (age 53-71 in 2017) being naive about cell phone technology...while you could be right in this case, I have to give you a good-natured hard time about age stereotypes. While I expect there are plenty of Boomers who are clueless about what phones can do, most of us pounced on the first iPhones and iPads and iWatches that were produced, as my 72 year old husband did. I'm at the very oldest end of Boomers and even I know enough not to leave a phone at a crime scene! I'm teasing you, of course , and you do make a valid point. I'm just not sure BG is that old. Personally, I would put him in GenX at 38-52 or even a little younger.

The best laid plans of even experienced SKs go awry and they make mistakes and get caught. So this BG could either be a bumbling opportunistic amateur or a meticulous planner SK who overlooked a phone. I'm not sure age will be the deciding factor in leaving the phone. JMO

But whatever you do folks, don't sell the Boomers and beyond short when it comes to technology. I have friends approaching and over 90 who use iPads and smart phones! They just call in the great grandkids when they need help.
:HHJP:

Thank you Lilibet[emoji4] <modsnip>

As for my comment about the "Baby Boomer" generation, I guess I think mostly of my parents when I make that reference. The mid-50s couple who is always calling their adult daughter to explain how to fix what they have done to their cell phone or how to delete an inadvertent post on social media. LOL But I completely see your point....I taught my 81 year old grandmother to use chat rooms and she now goes on "Senior Retreats" and has a boyfriend as a result. [emoji12]

But in all seriousness, I truly feel that BG is someone between 45 and 55 who is "technologically challenged" so to speak. I believe he is just Average Joe with nothing exceptional about him and little interest in understanding this new world we live in. I feel like he feels "left out" and unimportant. Likely bullied as a child or even sexually/mentally/physically abused as a child...possibly by a tyrannical father. Something about this reminds me of an "overgrown child" who lashed out on 2 beautiful teenage girls...maybe resembling girls who used to tease him or rejected him. Add in the fact of it being the day before Valentine's Day....the National day of "Rejection or Inadequacy" for some. To me, it's more than coincidence. From his "plain" appearance to the meekness in his voice to the irony of the date to absolutely no one pointing him out thus far....it just makes for a plausible explanation to me. It doesn't do much in the way of trying to identify him, but maybe someone will put pieces like this together. I don't know....I just want him to be found so badly. Just as everyone else does. I keep racking my brain...

Thank you for the nice reply and welcome! [emoji7]

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[Grimlynn]

What I am a bit baffled about is that he allegedly threw the girls clothing in the river and left the cell behind. Seems a bit weird.

Do you have a link to the article that mentions their clothes were in the water? I was gone all day yesterday and I'm playing catch up

I've thought about this too. I was thinking maybe Libby laid or dropped her cell down in the grass close by or something, where he didn't spot it when he was leaving, or maybe he did see it, but didn't realize she had recorded him on it and just left it there.

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[GGE]

First time posting, but here in Georgia there is no fingerprinting to get a Drivers License or any other type of identification.

Still catching up and I'm sure it's been said by now, but in NY state I did not get fingerprinted in order to get my drivers' license either.

I believe I did when I was on food stamps in NY state about 10-15 years ago, or maybe 20 (time flies faster and faster the older your kids get). I just googled it to see if I was remembering correctly and yes, for a period of years there were a handful of states that reqired it, but none seem to any longer. JMO and FWIW.

But certainly not to get a driver's license. Googling that scenario points back at Texas mostly, though I've seen references of some other states that used to do that as well. again, FWIW

 

[Raiden]

For those observing BG's gait and posture, bear in mind that the Monon High Bridge is a rail bridge, with each of the ties spaced several inches apart. In some spots, ties are missing or damaged. This necessitates stepping carefully, looking down to assure footing, and an unnatural gait while crossing some parts. As such, it may be difficult to discern natural gait and posture of BG from the photos provided.

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