IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #26

[Mysteriousmystery]

Question about Twitter -
Libby took a picture of the suspect using Twitter, is that right? Also the picture of Abigail was using Twitter. Aren't those pictures supposed to disappear after a short time?
Why would anyone want a picture from an outing with a friend to disappear anyway?

Is it possible for Libby to have directed one or both of those pictures to somebody in particular (pics would remain on the receiver's phone until they delete them)?
Like, if sending a pic of the suspect to someone and then including a caption, such as, "why is he here?" or something.
What if the girls recognized the guy (a twist) except a name wasn't stated.

I feel LE knows or senses the guy is a local.

Did Abigail carry a phone too?

You mean Snapchat? Mine I can choose to save to my camera roll before I send them. We don't know if she sent the picture but it wouldn't be on the suspects phone till he deleted it only can watch a snap twice then it's deleted unless you screenshot it which would send notice to the snapper you screenshot

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[Elley Mae]

Thanks Nin, when looking at this map keep in mind that the trail is not on what is visable, it is to the left off this/these maps. Where the girls were is not part of the trail. It's private property. Jmo

Observations:

Here is a quick visual regarding the properties surrounding the Monon High Bridge. Notice, almost all surrounding property is privately owned. The big red S marks Indiana State land. The trail and half of the NW part of the High Bridge is Carroll County property. The other half all the way to past the SE end of the bridge is CSX property. I have not noticed that before:

Also, the property lines N and S of Deer Creek run almost halfway through the creek!

Who knows, perhaps someone, who initially found the victims (in the creek??) moved them to one or the other property..?

All IMO

-Nin

Source:
https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1&PageID=0

 

[teeandcee]

Yes, as of 2005 DNA is collected from anyone who is convicted of any type of felony. Currently there is a bill to expand that to include anyone arrested for a felony. If the person is not convicted then they can ask for their DNA to be removed. That bill has not yet passed.

http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/Ev...ventDetails&information_id=232899&print=print

Just wanted to thank you. I googled, but there was so much stuff I gave up.

 

[ocgrad]

I have to do this too. It's the little video advertisements which are constantly playing, that cause my iPad to crash every 5 seconds or so. Very Frustrating.

I can't read WS unless I disable Java.

I downloaded free browser to use for WS. No ads, no loading.

 

[Angelcat13]

Thanks. People on probation get probation INSTEAD of jail time. People on parole have just been RELEASED from PRISON.

Using the wrong term is akin to slander, IMO, since it implies that this man has done prison time which does not appear to be the case after perusing the Indiana Court website shared here last night. Instead we see a man who served our country in the military in years gone by, and perhaps doesn't handle his drink how he "ought to". This is a far cry from murder and I don't want to contribute to people getting the wrong idea about him because they might read the word "parole" instead of "probation" and they might know the difference between the words and infer from the wrong word being used that this man has done prison time when as far as we know he hasn't even even been held in jail before now (his same public record shows that he was held on house arrest last time he was charged with DWi rather than being held in jail because it would cause undue hardship on him to be in jail - this is all public record and within the rules we were given by Bessie).

That's just not fair IMO.

Edit - this is the currently relevant case. you can click the little arrows to expand details. if one is quite observant and so desires they can also note the previous related case numbers and search them out and expand those details as well. the're all basically the same charge across the years IMO and IIRC. Scroll to the very bottom for the currently relevant information.

https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase...qQTNNVEF5TnpFeU1UTXdPakUxTWprd05EVXhPREE9In19

Beautifully said. Not everybody handles their inner demons well and the traumas of war and losing a child could easily contribute to a problem with alcohol. I feel for him and wish him peace..

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I believe the pictures of the bridge and Abigail were taken using snapchat. When a picture is taken and placed in your "story" anybody in your friend list can view the picture or up to 10 second video for 24 hours. If it was sent directly to one specific person, the person can view it once, but it gives the person a secomd chance to replay the snap. Most people take the opportunity at this point to screenshot whatever the picture is. If it was a video it wont let you save the video, just screenshot it. Alot of people use this to show people where they are at, or what they are doing without having it forever.

Snapchat! Thank you for the correction. Honestly, my brain is shot.
Can a caption or message be included with the picture?

 

[skibaboo]

Re the intake time mentioned for PO ... there is an app called Mobile Patrol. If you download that and enter Delphi, IN zip code 46923 you will see all current county jail inmates listed. RL is the first one on the list; his intake time is shown as 12:00am, but note that so are all of the others. I believe it's just a "default" time that shows up.

So that means he could have been arrested at any time on Friday? If all intakes are timed at midnight that is probably when the system updates the information each day. MOO

 

[Steleheart]

:bump:

You can post the court links and discuss the charges.

You CANNOT sleuth this individual relative to Abby's and Libby's murders, as no indication of his involvement has been released. On the contrary, he was cleared. More than likely, in the course of investigating him, these unrelated violations came to light. So, as Sillybiily said, cool your jets.

If it gets out of hand, substantial Time Outs WILL be issued on the spot. You've now been warned.

Bessie
WS ADMINISTRATOR

ETA: For the umpteenth time, leave the FB gossip ON FB!

TIA for your cooperation.

<modsnip>

BBM;
Based on Bessie's warning above I believe that most of the WS community has accepted that we are not to discuss him in relation to the murders.

 

[Safeguard]

I posted something similar several threads ago.I hope it's okay to repost. I'd probably word it a bit differently now (the "nonsense" part in particular), but the point is still the same:



I'm new here, but this is how I view this forum: It's a place for people to theorize and speculate about crimes in a civilized and non-offensive manner. Unlike other places WS does not allow opinions or rumors to be presented as fact, so I do find it to be a good source of information. However, I do not believe that it does anything to help solve crimes or aid the investigation. Much of what is being discussed here has absolutely no relevance to catching the perp. With the little information and resources we have available there's no way we could ever get ahead of investigators. Even IF someone were able to reconstruct the entire crime start to finish we still wouldn't know the perp's name or location.

So what&#8217;s the point of all the discussions about hats, guns, maps, locations etc? IMO it&#8217;s a mental exercise of sorts. It might be called a hobby, or a passion, and in some cases even an obsession. I suppose there are worse ways to spend your time (although I could think of a lot of better ones too. Lol). I personally don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything wrong with it. I just have an issue with people getting carried away and bombarding the tip line with wild theories about the perp hiding a standard poodle under his jacket. :scared:

Bottom line is we all desperately want to help the investigation...but I think we may need to settle for not hurting the investigation (or the families of the victims or innocent third parties). All JMO.

Well thank you for that scathing complement?
Bbm

While many of us do, obviously, have an interest in true crime, and we discuss aspects that may not solve a case, WS has been instrumental in helping in solving some cases actually.

But imo the greatest thing we offer here is support, to ensure the victims get the attention and care they deserve, keep the facts of what they went through (relatively) straight and true, keep spreading the word, keep people talking and interested, and coming together to hope, pray, show concern and love for our fellow travelers in this world and learn about ways we can make a difference.

I know there have been many family members who have been here and expressed gratitude for our interest in their lost loved ones.
If you feel there are "better ways" to spend your time, you are welcome to do so.

 

[gliving]

I saw the state files posted. But I still don't understand.

If probation has ended, how can they arrest you on probation violation? TIA. I don't understand that part....probation violation if probation date is past.

If someone is convicted of a felony, they can lose their rights to own guns or even ammo for life. No just during their probation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Indiana#cite_note-16

As others have said, perhaps that's why he was trying to have his felony convictions reduced. He (and LE) knew he was in violation.

 

[Elle*Bee]

No, not rumors, agreed. But can you tell me how you feel it's helpful to this case?

LE has arrested multiple parole and probation violators in the course of this investigation. So is it just because the girls were found on his property?

I'm honestly trying to understand the importance of his arrest since he is not a suspect or POI.

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BBM (bolded by me, for the new folks): perhaps the reason LE have not commented on the property owner's arrest for probation violation I because it has nothing to do with Abby & Libby's case. If they're not commenting on any one else's unrelated offense, why should they comment on his?

I get that the fact the bodies were found on his property adds a layer of interest, but if LE doesn't feel it's related to the case, they may not come out with a statement. JMHO.

 

[GangaMa]

Bubbling up from the lava pools :

We had two murdered teenage girls found in a condition unknown to us.
We can guess what the scene looked like when searcher(s) found them, but we don't know.
We do know that the perp did not have a lot of time to sit around with the girls, or their remains, going through any kind of ritualistic behavior. He had a short time frame.
Even if there were two perps at once, what could they have done at the crime scene that didn't load up the evidence with DNA (assuming that LE got some, but not a lot)?
We can see from the picture given by LE that BG had some stuff jammed in the front of his jacket, but there's not room in there for even a small suitcase. Or a full backpack.
All of which leads me to think that the crime scene would likely have been simplistic (to a human observer), and I'm trying not to be insensitive here. It seems that it would have been the result of a perp in a hurry - no drawings on any walls, no elaborate arrangements, etc. MOO of course.

But given all that, why the following comments?

Sup't. Carter of ISP describing this case as :
"...very complicated, very involved..."
and
a more local LEO saying that this case has :
"a twist" that he hasn't before seen in his career.
What has prompted LE to describe the case that way? What are they talking about?

 

[SkyBlue714]

I would consider "a set" as meaning footprints from one person. MOO.

This whole search thing seems as off to me as everything else. It seems like I remember it also being said that a neighbor volunteer found the bodies.

OTOH, Ms. Boucher (volunteer) was interviewed and the article stated: "[FONT=&amp]They (her group) had been instructed to stay away from the area where the girls had last been seen because search dogs were out. Authorities told volunteers they didn’t want to chance contaminating the scene."
[/FONT]More here: http://www.pharostribune.com/news/local_news/article_031b521c-f2e3-11e6-a249-a77587cb24f9.html

It seems like all the searching the night before would have surely contaminated the scene unless no one went down by the creek. But they apparently let some searchers in that area because it was a searcher/searchers that found the tracks.

I wonder why the dogs didn't find the bodies?

I wonder exactly where the dogs originally led them to????

 

[Mysteriousmystery]

Bubbling up from the lava pools :

We had two murdered teenage girls found in a condition unknown to us.
We can guess what the scene looked like when searcher(s) found them, but we don't know.
We do know that the perp did not have a lot of time to sit around with the girls, or their remains, going through any kind of ritualistic behavior. He had a short time frame.
Even if there were two perps at once, what could they have done at the crime scene that didn't load up the evidence with DNA (assuming that LE got some, but not a lot)?
We can see from the picture given by LE that BG had some stuff jammed in the front of his jacket, but there's not room in there for even a small suitcase. Or a full backpack.
All of which leads me to think that the crime scene would likely have been simplistic (to a human observer), and I'm trying not to be insensitive here. It seems that it would have been the result of a perp in a hurry - no drawings on any walls, no elaborate arrangements, etc. MOO of course.

But given all that, why the following comments?

Sup't. Carter of ISP describing this case as :
"...very complicated, very involved..."
and
a more local LEO saying that this case has :
"a twist" that he hasn't before seen in his career.
What has prompted LE to describe the case that way? What are they talking about?

To me IMO it's because she took a photo and video with audio. I can't recall where that has ever happened before much less a young girl being brave enough to do it.

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[Burnt Toast]

Not around where I live. If the police find someone in violation of probation, driving when they should not be, with a few drinks consumed, they will just tell them to park the car- call a friend to come get you - call Uber...

Eta: guess I am not a good friend. I got a call at 3 am and refused to go get said "friend". He was breaking the law IMO.
I follow the rules - don't wake me up because you refuse to!

JMO- the PO is KEY to the case.

That surprises me. Should that person take the car of the friend who just picked up them up and cause a deadly crash the officer who let them go without a field sobriety test would be partly liable, and as a result of his or hers careless actions.

 

[Jax49]

Bubbling up from the lava pools :

We had two murdered teenage girls found in a condition unknown to us.
We can guess what the scene looked like when searcher(s) found them, but we don't know.
We do know that the perp did not have a lot of time to sit around with the girls, or their remains, going through any kind of ritualistic behavior. He had a short time frame.
Even if there were two perps at once, what could they have done at the crime scene that didn't load up the evidence with DNA (assuming that LE got some, but not a lot)?
We can see from the picture given by LE that BG had some stuff jammed in the front of his jacket, but there's not room in there for even a small suitcase. Or a full backpack.
All of which leads me to think that the crime scene would likely have been simplistic (to a human observer), and I'm trying not to be insensitive here. It seems that it would have been the result of a perp in a hurry - no drawings on any walls, no elaborate arrangements, etc. MOO of course.

But given all that, why the following comments?

Sup't. Carter of ISP describing this case as :
"...very complicated, very involved..."
and
a more local LEO saying that this case has :
"a twist" that he hasn't before seen in his career.
What has prompted LE to describe the case that way? What are they talking about?

BBM

How long do you think he/they had? As I understand it the area may not have been searched early on.

Was that area accessed by searchers or LE before the bodies were found at 12:15 PM?

I don't like to think it but I'm afraid there was a lot longer time involved than we'd like to believe. MOO, of course.

 

[Jax49]

BBM;
Based on Bessie's warning above I believe that most of the WS community has accepted that we are not to discuss him in relation to the murders.

Bump
Bump
Bump

 

[CoreyRocks]

:biglaugh::wave::loveyou:

Oops thank you skibs. That works.

 

[Nonna Gigi]

Bubbling up from the lava pools :

We had two murdered teenage girls found in a condition unknown to us.
We can guess what the scene looked like when searcher(s) found them, but we don't know.
We do know that the perp did not have a lot of time to sit around with the girls, or their remains, going through any kind of ritualistic behavior. He had a short time frame.
Even if there were two perps at once, what could they have done at the crime scene that didn't load up the evidence with DNA (assuming that LE got some, but not a lot)?
We can see from the picture given by LE that BG had some stuff jammed in the front of his jacket, but there's not room in there for even a small suitcase. Or a full backpack.
All of which leads me to think that the crime scene would likely have been simplistic (to a human observer), and I'm trying not to be insensitive here. It seems that it would have been the result of a perp in a hurry - no drawings on any walls, no elaborate arrangements, etc. MOO of course.

But given all that, why the following comments?

Sup't. Carter of ISP describing this case as :
"...very complicated, very involved..."
and
a more local LEO saying that this case has :
"a twist" that he hasn't before seen in his career.
What has prompted LE to describe the case that way? What are they talking about?

My opinion is the "twist" is the video/audio captured on Libby's cell phone.

 

[TeaTime]

I read it as a 2 year prison sentence (suspended with conditions) that would end in October 2016 and 2 years probation, until October 2018.

I could be wrong.

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No. He plead to a class D felony, DUI so it is a conviction. The 2 year sentence was rendered, then suspended pending completion of the 2 year probationary period and terms therein. If the probation terms are not completed, the suspension is lifted and the defendant serves the original term of the sentence. The "(suspended with conditions)" is the probationary terms.