IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #26

[kirkassoc]

There is a trail down a steep hill that drops down to the flat area where the girls were found. The area up the hill is toward PO's acreage. This can be seen in the videos that he gave to reporters. This could be the "down the hill" that the perp was directing one or both of the girls to go down. I know there are many "down the hill" places but not all of them have a trial and not all of them directly border the area where the girls were found.

This is speculative and thus probably futile but I am developing a theory, which is very rare for me to do. I never have much to offer on cases that I follow.

One more thing I am mulling over... LE's statement about the possibility of there being multiple perps. There is the possibility that LE thinks, based on some evidence, that the girls were separated at some point before their deaths. If so, maybe they have some recorded evidence of one perp and his actions with or toward one of the girls but they hear nothing to indicate that the other girl is present or they could even hear the perp sending one of the girls elsewhere. They may think there are two different places where a murder occurred or that the girls were separated and then brought back together for their deaths.

I don't know. I am just brainstorming how they can think there are multiple perps without being able to say that there absolutely were two or more.

JMO and if memory serves me correctly (and my memory is not what it used to be), I remember hearing that the girls were missing. Then, later heard that two bodies were found. If memory serves me correctly (and it may not) seems as if I recall it being stated that the bodies were found beneath or below two embankments or hills. I got the impression they were found in two separate locations but perhaps near enough to be found quickly (once one was discovered). This was my impression early on and from some of the first reports regarding this heartbreaking case. I COULD BE WRONG :thinking:

 

[ab01]

BBM

How long do you think he/they had? As I understand it the area may not have been searched early on.

Was that area accessed by searchers or LE before the bodies were found at 12:15 PM?

I don't like to think it but I'm afraid there was a lot longer time involved than we'd like to believe. MOO, of course.

Hard to say based off of the information we have available. But I for one find it highly unlikely that BG would have been able to be at that location for a long period time, based on searchers being relatively close to the general location starting at 5-6 on monday evening. They might not have found the victims untill 12.15 tuesday, but in my opinion searchers were in the very near vicinity all the way up untill the bodies were discovered. IF BG was able to move in and out of the crime scene undetected during the time that searchers were looking, I think the only logical explanation would be that there were multiple persons involved and some grand conspiracy. And I for one don't believe that to be the case. Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one. IE BG got in abducted killed and got out before anybody noticed him.....all MOO

Edited to add: I know official search was called off sometime that night and resumed the next day. But based on statements made on social media by family: friends, family and volunteers were searching through out the night.....

 

[WVWoman]

That surprises me. Should that person take the car of the friend who just picked up them up and cause a deadly crash the officer who let them go without a field sobriety test would be partly liable, and as a result of his or hers careless actions.

We have officers that do that if they have been drinking just not quiet over the Legal limit. Call a ride you have still had enough to worry me about you driving.
Glad they do it here! Close to limit can still cause a wreck!

 

[EllieBee]

Wonderful post. Thank you.

I do not post regularly, but I can attest to the victims' families being appreciative of the respectful and generally sensitive way in which thier loved ones' cases are discussed here.

Without giving details, I became good "friends" (interwebz style) with a family member who posted here on a case (verified). I was not a member at WS at the time but we were both on a FB group for the case.

We are now FB friends and our families even met once IRL! He spoke very highly of the folks here and how his family member's case was treated by members. That is one of the reasons I eventually became a member here at WS.

I have taken part in lots of crime discussion groups and none are as mindful of the importance of sensitivity as WS. IMO.

Well thank you for that scathing complement?
Bbm

While many of us do, obviously, have an interest in true crime, and we discuss aspects that may not solve a case, WS has been instrumental in helping in solving some cases actually.

But imo the greatest thing we offer here is support, to ensure the victims get the attention and care they deserve, keep the facts of what they went through (relatively) straight and true, keep spreading the word, keep people talking and interested, and coming together to hope, pray, show concern and love for our fellow travelers in this world and learn about ways we can make a difference.

I know there have been many family members who have been here and expressed gratitude for our interest in their lost loved ones.
If you feel there "better ways" to spend your time, you are welcome to do so.

 

[Burnt Toast]

https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase...XSTRNVEF3TnpFek1UTXdPakUxTWprd05EVXhNak09In19

i don't see anything more recent than 2014 on that link. Where should I be looking for it ?

 

[Jax49]

Hard to say based off of the information we have available. But I for one find it highly unlikely that BG would have been able to be at that location for a long period time, based on searchers being relatively close to the general location starting at 5-6 on monday evening. They might not have found the victims untill 12.15 tuesday, but in my opinion searchers were in the very near vicinity all the way up untill the bodies were discovered. IF BG was able to move in and out of the crime scene undetected during the time that searchers were looking, I think the only logical explanation would be that there were multiple persons involved and some grand conspiracy. And I for one don't believe that to be the case. Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one. IE BG got in abducted killed and got out before anybody noticed him.....all MOO

I'm not suggesting he moved in and out. I believe the searchers may not have been close enough to have interrupted him. Moo.

 

[dredre]

Can you post a link to the FBI case file review you mentioned? Thanks.

Here you go. I know it's not specifically about the girls but its actually interesting to hear about the process of another high profile case involving children/child of the same ages. They also talk about the computer system (Orion) the tips are loaded into.

http://jerriwilliams.com/eddie-freyer-polly-klaas-child-abduction-and-murder-part-1/


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[Jax49]

i don't see anything more recent than 2014 on that link. Where should I be looking for it ?

2017 is at the very bottom.

 

[ab01]

I'm not suggesting he moved in and out. I believe the searchers may not have been close enough to have interrupted him. Moo.

I would think searchers screaming the girls names and flashing flashlights and walking through brush within the general vicinity would be enough to interrupt him.....MOO

 

[mazblondie]

I would think searchers screaming the girls names and flashing flashlights and walking through brush within the general vicinity would be enough to interrupt him.....MOO

I think this is what happened. I think he was disturbed.
I also think this isn't the first time he has done this, not necessarily a SK but at least an attack, because it takes a lot of bravery (cant think of a better word for the ) to take two agile, athletic girls in broad daylight, even with a weapon.

I guess it would be too much of a stretch to see if there have been any similar attacks (not necessarily deaths) in the local area? possibly with descriptions of the perps if they have them.
Thinking out loud again.
MOO.

 

[finine]

So that means he could have been arrested at any time on Friday? If all intakes are timed at midnight that is probably when the system updates the information each day. MOO

Yup that's my line of thought as well.

 

[Nonna Gigi]

I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseam, but I'm wondering the following in regards to where the bodies were found:

If the girls were forced off the bridge at the northwest end of the bridge, the place where their bodies were found would not involve crossing any water.

If the girls were forced off of the southeast end of the bridge, the place where their bodies were found would mean they HAD to cross the water.

My question is this: If they were indeed forced off the southeast end of the bridge, why wouldn't BG have just stopped down by the creek, not cross it, and committed the murders there? Was that area visible from anyone crossing the bridge and that caused him to take the girls across where it wouldn't be visible from the bridge?

I've looked at lots of maps and videos of the area and feel that either place (where the bodies were found OR on the opposite side of the creek) would have been out of view of any bridge walkers.

Just wondering if there is a consensus out there among the WS community here on this issue.

 

[Deltucky]

13 year old girl, missing from Toledo, Ohio since Saturday 3/11/17

http://www.wtol.com/story/34734130/13-year-old-toledo-girl-missing-since-saturday-morning

WS page here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...3-Years-Old-3-11-2017&p=13224393#post13224393

 

[indycindy]

Just checked all of the news/ LE people on Twitter that I locally follow and not a word about the Delphi murders...

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[Jabarn]

I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseam, but I'm wondering the following in regards to where the bodies were found:

If the girls were forced off the bridge at the northwest end of the bridge, the place where their bodies were found would not involve crossing any water.

If the girls were forced off of the southeast end of the bridge, the place where their bodies were found would mean they HAD to cross the water.

My question is this: If they were indeed forced off the southeast end of the bridge, why wouldn't BG have just stopped down by the creek, not cross it, and committed the murders there? Was that area visible from anyone crossing the bridge and that caused him to take the girls across where it wouldn't be visible from the bridge?

I've looked at lots of maps and videos of the area and feel that either place (where the bodies were found OR on the opposite side of the creek) would have been out of view of any bridge walkers.

Just wondering if there is a consensus out there among the WS community here on this issue.

I can't speak for any consensus here, but I have wondered if there was primary crime scene and the girls were moved to a secondary location, where their bodies were found.

 

[Elley Mae]

BBM

How long do you think he/they had? As I understand it the area may not have been searched early on.

Was that area accessed by searchers or LE before the bodies were found at 12:15 PM?

I don't like to think it but I'm afraid there was a lot longer time involved than we'd like to believe. MOO, of course.

Iirc a search was conducted 13th after they were repoted missing at 5:30, never heard where that search was. They searched tilll it got "too dark"? Went back the next day 14th iirc with searchers and the girls were found at 12:15? So it was at least 12 hours or more. I am not sure of the distance from the trail end and where the abandoned railroad brige is but iirc the girls were 1/2 mile to the right of the trail end. Jmo

 

[Nonna Gigi]

I can't speak for any consensus here, but I have wondered if there was primary crime scene and the girls were moved to a secondary location, where their bodies were found.

Yes, I have seen that theory. Thanks for your input.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Hard to say based off of the information we have available. But I for one find it highly unlikely that BG would have been able to be at that location for a long period time, based on searchers being relatively close to the general location starting at 5-6 on monday evening. They might not have found the victims untill 12.15 tuesday, but in my opinion searchers were in the very near vicinity all the way up untill the bodies were discovered. IF BG was able to move in and out of the crime scene undetected during the time that searchers were looking, I think the only logical explanation would be that there were multiple persons involved and some grand conspiracy. And I for one don't believe that to be the case. Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one. IE BG got in abducted killed and got out before anybody noticed him.....all MOO

Edited to add: I know official search was called off at dark and resumed the next day. But based on statements made on social media by family: friends, family and volunteers were searching through out the night.....

The official search - if you mean by fire fighters and such - that didn't start until sometime after dark. Delphi Fire was toned out for the search at 7:02pm. Camden Fire was called for manpower for the search at 8:01pm. There was a regroup called at 8:44pm and call for a briefing at 11:20pm. So the search (at least a ground search) may really have ended somewhere around 11:20pm though there is a scanner broadcast later at 12:50am (concerning parking a vehicle of some sort) that is likely search related.

The next day Delphi Fire was toned out at 7:27am for the searches the next day.

 

[Facinatingtimes]

Could the search party from 6:00pm-ish till dark on 2/13 missed the bodies? As well as the dogs that were brought in? Or were they not there at that time and possibly taken there after/under the cover of dark?


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[Jax49]

Iirc a search was conducted 13th after they were repoted missing at 5:30, never heard where that search was. They searched tilll it got "too dark"? Went back the next day 14th iirc with searchers and the girls were found at 12:15? So it was at least 12 hours or more. I am not sure of the distance from the trail end and where the abandoned railroad brige is but iirc the girls were 1/2 mile to the right of the trail end. Jmo

That sounds accurate except family and friends never stopped looking over night, IIRC.