IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #26

[No it's not]

Thanks Nin, when looking at this map keep in mind that the trail is not on what is visable, it is to the left off this/these maps. Where the girls were is not part of the trail. It's private property. Jmo

Unless I misunderstand. the trail ends on the NW end of the Monon High Bridge:

This is part of the trail on the Carroll County property search map:

And this is an alternative route bypassing the Monon High Bridge trail mentioned by nana#1, when she went to the location and took all the photographs. Might as well post it too:

-Nin

 

[Facinatingtimes]

I can't speak for any consensus here, but I have wondered if there was primary crime scene and the girls were moved to a secondary location, where their bodies were found.

I also wonder about this. And that makes me think more than one person involved.


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[mazblondie]

Hate that I leave the forum without any further answers. I know its a waiting game. I can't even imagine what its like for those who knew and loved the girls.

Lets hope tomorrow is the day.

 

[WebSight]

[video=youtube;4yNdRfD23p0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yNdRfD23p0&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Okay, so this morning I was watching news reports where RL was being interviewed. I came across this one, as did others, where a friend is being interviewed as well. He said something very interesting, IMO.

Now, before I say anything more I want to make it VERY clear that I am not sleuthing this man or REMOTELY suggesting that he has anything to do with this case. This isn't about that.

It occurred to me that the town is doing an awfully good job keeping quiet about what many of them may have witnessed during the search, and of course directly after, when the girls were found. I am sure that when the girls were found it was talked about as a matter of course to all the volunteers and LE - the boots on the ground, as they say.

So, this gentleman said something that pricked my ears up. He said, "...you couldn't carry someone up and down these hills..." at the @ the 1:04 mark. He turns around and looks up behind him at that point, not across the creek (you will see what I mean if you watch it).

Now, as we have not been given the information from LE about whether the girls were led to that spot and then killed or whether they were murdered elsewhere and placed there, we have been sleuthing away, trying to work out different scenarios.


But, did this gentleman inadvertently give us the answer? Did that statement tell us that LE believes that the girls were murdered elsewhere and carried there, coming down that hill? That could give us two more clues: 1) the girls were murdered elsewhere and 2) they did not cross the creek.

 

[liltexans]

BBM (bolded by me, for the new folks): perhaps the reason LE have not commented on the property owner's arrest for probation violation I because it has nothing to do with Abby & Libby's case. If they're not commenting on any one else's unrelated offense, why should they comment on his?

I get that the fact the bodies were found on his property adds a layer of interest, but if LE doesn't feel it's related to the case, they may not come out with a statement. JMHO.

LE has come out with statements when someone is being tried and convicted on Facebook. They have made statements saying to leave the person/family alone and to stop the social media rumors. They've done it a few times already in this case. There's no way, IMO, that LE does not know about the rumors being spread on social media about RL. It just seems odd that they have previously quickly shut down rumors when we didn't even know the names of the people involved, but this time, they are silent.

But maybe it means absolutely nothing and LE is just tired of telling people not to slander innocent people on social media.

 

[FreeRoad]

A bit late in the loop, as I have just spent some time catching up on the afternoon's posts, but I want to express a belated "Thank You" to all of the kind support on this forum. I appreciate all the help and advice in navigating the site, and the warm welcome. I also want to express my appreciation to the senior/experienced members here who answer questions and clarify guidelines and expectations (esp. when Mods are away.) I am especially grateful when someone "bumps" a Moderator's announcements or clarifications, as it is hard to catch up after being away. I love it when others share their knowledge, wisdom and experience. Thank you all. :bow:

 

[EllieBee]

I'll go:

I think A and L were heading NW to SE on the bridge. BG, also heading down from the NW end accosted the girls close to if not AT, the SE end, forced them "down the hill" and continuing east until they reached a shallow part of the creek.

He forced them to cross, assaulted and killed Libby and Abby where they were found.

I respectfully decline to share exactly why I am certain MOO that they crossed the creek. I will just say I think it was a familiar path for the BG.

I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseam, but I'm wondering the following in regards to where the bodies were found:

If the girls were forced off the bridge at the northwest end of the bridge, the place where their bodies were found would not involve crossing any water.

If the girls were forced off of the southeast end of the bridge, the place where their bodies were found would mean they HAD to cross the water.

My question is this: If they were indeed forced off the southeast end of the bridge, why wouldn't BG have just stopped down by the creek, not cross it, and committed the murders there? Was that area visible from anyone crossing the bridge and that caused him to take the girls across where it wouldn't be visible from the bridge?

I've looked at lots of maps and videos of the area and feel that either place (where the bodies were found OR on the opposite side of the creek) would have been out of view of any bridge walkers.

Just wondering if there is a consensus out there among the WS community here on this issue.

 

[VTX88]

[video=youtube;4yNdRfD23p0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yNdRfD23p0&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Okay, so this morning I was watching news reports where RL was being interviewed. I came across this one, as did others, where a friend is being interviewed as well. He said something very interesting, IMO.

Now, before I say anything more I want to make it VERY clear that I am not sleuthing this man or REMOTELY suggesting that he has anything to do with this case. This isn't about that.

It occurred to me that the town is doing an awfully good job keeping quiet about what many of them may have witnessed during the search, and of course directly after, when the girls were found. I am sure that when the girls were found it was talked about as a matter of course to all the volunteers and LE - the boots on the ground, as they say.

So, this gentleman said something that pricked my ears up. He said, "...you couldn't carry someone up and down these hills..." at the @ the 1:04 mark. He turns around and looks up behind him at that point, not across the creek (you will see what I mean if you watch it).

Now, as we have not been given the information from LE about whether the girls were led to that spot and then killed or whether they were murdered elsewhere and placed there, we have been sleuthing away, trying to work out different scenarios.


But, did this gentleman inadvertently give us the answer? Did that statement tell us that LE believes that the girls were murdered elsewhere and carried there, coming down that hill? That could give us two more clues: 1) the girls were murdered elsewhere and 2) they did not cross the creek.

He actually was quoting what RL said to him if you listen closely.

 

[WebSight]

He actually was quoting what RL said to him if you listen closely.

IMO, I disagree. He said that that's why we came back here - not sure how that is a quote. Doesn't really matter who said it, really.

The point is, is it local knowledge that has been inadvertently given?

 

[ezrah]

The FBI profile of the perp(s) has not been made public iirc. The placement of the girls in the location where they were found is puzzling to me. The fact that the girls were visible from a ground search must be a clue to the profile of the perp(s) imo They were not hidden by debris, or covered that I have heard. Does that indicate the perp(s) wanted them to be found quickly? Would that speak to the possibility that the perp(s) were known to the girls or connected in some way?On the other hand it could be because the perp(s) were flaunting what they had done. It would seem that there would be many areas to place the girls where discovery would have been slower. All JMOO

 

[TTF14]

[video=youtube;4yNdRfD23p0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yNdRfD23p0&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Okay, so this morning I was watching news reports where RL was being interviewed. I came across this one, as did others, where a friend is being interviewed as well. He said something very interesting, IMO.

Now, before I say anything more I want to make it VERY clear that I am not sleuthing this man or REMOTELY suggesting that he has anything to do with this case. This isn't about that.

It occurred to me that the town is doing an awfully good job keeping quiet about what many of them may have witnessed during the search, and of course directly after, when the girls were found. I am sure that when the girls were found it was talked about as a matter of course to all the volunteers and LE - the boots on the ground, as they say.

So, this gentleman said something that pricked my ears up. He said, "...you couldn't carry someone up and down these hills..." at the @ the 1:04 mark. He turns around and looks up behind him at that point, not across the creek (you will see what I mean if you watch it).

Now, as we have not been given the information from LE about whether the girls were led to that spot and then killed or whether they were murdered elsewhere and placed there, we have been sleuthing away, trying to work out different scenarios.


But, did this gentleman inadvertently give us the answer? Did that statement tell us that LE believes that the girls were murdered elsewhere and carried there, coming down that hill? That could give us two more clues: 1) the girls were murdered elsewhere and 2) they did not cross the creek.

BBM.

There's also an option 3 that would involve direct knowledge of how the crime occurred and an attempt to disprove it.

What is up behind, where he pointed?

After seeing #1Nana's video, I would have to disagree with the property owner that this is rough terrain. Does he just feel that way because of his age? Admittedly, I'm 30+ years younger than this man, but I'm not in top-top shape and I don't think this would be difficult to hike through in the winter, at all.

Sorry, that was a lot of rambling and disconnected thoughts.

 

[VTX88]

Maybe they found a second crime scene on that property across the street where they searched Friday. First crime scene being where the perp accosted them, second crime scene where he possibly victimized them, third crime scene where their bodies were found. Maybe while listening to the recording Libby had made they heard something like metal siding being scraped or moved, a door, footsteps on concrete (road), and decided to checkout any area within walking distance heard on the recording. Idk, something led them back to search that property though. Maybe the PO of that grain bin noticed something was moved, missing, or tampered with and called it in.

 

[Burnt Toast]

My opinion is the "twist" is the video/audio captured on Libby's cell phone.

i am still trying to figure out what they meant by "complicated"

 

[TTF14]

Regarding two crime scenes, I think there could have been 2. One where a sexual assault occurred (i.e. in the mysterious "silo" that's being talked about), and the second, where the bodies were found (they were marched there and then murdered?). This is not at all based on fact, just my theory. I personally believe it all happened in one place, but 2 crime scenes is also plausible. And, if there WERE two crime scenes (i.e. that silo or another building) it almost HAS to be someone very, very local.

Very.

 

[Facinatingtimes]

I'll go:

I think A and L were heading NW to SE on the bridge. BG, also heading down from the NW end accosted the girls close to if not AT, the SE end, forced them "down the hill" and continuing east until they reached a shallow part of the creek.

He forced them to cross, assaulted and killed Libby and Abby where they were found.

I respectfully decline to share exactly why I am certain MOO that they crossed the creek. I will just say I think it was a familiar path for the BG.

And so the search party missed them on the evening of the 13th? I'm not disagreeing with you, but seems like they were in the area of the search and dogs and I'm trying to wrap my head around that...


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[TTF14]

i am still trying to figure out what they meant by "complicated"

And I'm still trying to figure out why they behaved the way they did in the first news conference when they absolutely seemed like they knew who did this. I don't think they are the best at giving news conferences.

 

[Ashley95]

[video=youtube;4yNdRfD23p0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yNdRfD23p0&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Okay, so this morning I was watching news reports where RL was being interviewed. I came across this one, as did others, where a friend is being interviewed as well. He said something very interesting, IMO.

Now, before I say anything more I want to make it VERY clear that I am not sleuthing this man or REMOTELY suggesting that he has anything to do with this case. This isn't about that.

It occurred to me that the town is doing an awfully good job keeping quiet about what many of them may have witnessed during the search, and of course directly after, when the girls were found. I am sure that when the girls were found it was talked about as a matter of course to all the volunteers and LE - the boots on the ground, as they say.

So, this gentleman said something that pricked my ears up. He said, "...you couldn't carry someone up and down these hills..." at the @ the 1:04 mark. He turns around and looks up behind him at that point, not across the creek (you will see what I mean if you watch it).

Now, as we have not been given the information from LE about whether the girls were led to that spot and then killed or whether they were murdered elsewhere and placed there, we have been sleuthing away, trying to work out different scenarios.


But, did this gentleman inadvertently give us the answer? Did that statement tell us that LE believes that the girls were murdered elsewhere and carried there, coming down that hill? That could give us two more clues: 1) the girls were murdered elsewhere and 2) they did not cross the creek.

This is an interesting post. Thank you. Well thought out.

I tell you what though, these videos and press conferences show me. All the guys in this town dress similar and have same hats and build. It's just what you wear there clothes wise.

Sadly that that means everyone gets fingers pointed.

Must be an absolute nightmare for mods on here and LE and more importantly the innocent and their families.

 

[Tillicum]

I can't speak for any consensus here, but I have wondered if there was primary crime scene and the girls were moved to a secondary location, where their bodies were found.

Do we know if there are any caves in the immediate area?

 

[VTX88]

IMO, I disagree. He said that that's why we came back here - not sure how that is a quote. Doesn't really matter who said it, really.

The point is, is it local knowledge that has been inadvertently given?

"That's why we come back. He's says I wanna show you what it looks like. You couldn't carry someone up and down these hills. It's hard to walk by yourself."

 

[Jax49]

[video=youtube;4yNdRfD23p0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yNdRfD23p0&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Okay, so this morning I was watching news reports where RL was being interviewed. I came across this one, as did others, where a friend is being interviewed as well. He said something very interesting, IMO.

Now, before I say anything more I want to make it VERY clear that I am not sleuthing this man or REMOTELY suggesting that he has anything to do with this case. This isn't about that.

It occurred to me that the town is doing an awfully good job keeping quiet about what many of them may have witnessed during the search, and of course directly after, when the girls were found. I am sure that when the girls were found it was talked about as a matter of course to all the volunteers and LE - the boots on the ground, as they say.

So, this gentleman said something that pricked my ears up. He said, "...you couldn't carry someone up and down these hills..." at the @ the 1:04 mark. He turns around and looks up behind him at that point, not across the creek (you will see what I mean if you watch it).

Now, as we have not been given the information from LE about whether the girls were led to that spot and then killed or whether they were murdered elsewhere and placed there, we have been sleuthing away, trying to work out different scenarios.


But, did this gentleman inadvertently give us the answer? Did that statement tell us that LE believes that the girls were murdered elsewhere and carried there, coming down that hill? That could give us two more clues: 1) the girls were murdered elsewhere and 2) they did not cross the creek.

Is it possible the neighbors didn't know how the victims got to the place they were found? Could it simply mean they believed based on the terrain that the girls had been forced to WALK THERE?