IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #28

[her]

Why is everyone so adverse on the catfish theory? The poor girl does look over dressed for the woods. 13 year old girls do like boys and sometimes lie to their parents. Not right or wrong, just life.Most logical assumptionsPlanned is much more likely. If planned, catfish is the main next assumption.Sheesh, for a bunch of "sleuths" I've seen nothing but resistance to anything other than debating over the pixels of an intentially blurry photo. Steve jobs would roll over in his grave if he heard people saying that was the best quality they could retrieve. All he other pics were super high res, but those two still were from a potato.A good detective would consider a theory instead of disregarding it. No one is judging the girls for potentially meeting a boy and telling a small lie. It's just foolish not to consider it. You all owe it to the girls to consider all possibilities. Imagine if they were catfished and everyone just disregarded the theory? The girls deserve more than that.

Not everyone is adverse to a catfish theory, what posters are doing in general are debating differing theories as far as I can tell. I cannot lean either way so I'm staying mute on that topic.I don't see how a pair of jeans and sneakers are over dressed for simple walking on an open trail. That's as far as I go with that. Which is also to mean that jeans and sneakers doesn't mean they were not to meet anyone else.However, nor do I feel strongly enough they were there to do this, so I have not posted it.

 

[Jillrp]

I followed this story avidly early on. I'm COMPLETELY done with it until LE releases more video or audio.

I can't understand at ALL why they are holding on to information that the public needs to ID this perp.

That is not a good attitude. They have a job to do and so do we as concerned citizens. We have a PHOTO and AUDIO. What do many other cases have? ZILCH! he could be living in YOUR TOWN. It might be a good idea to stay aware....


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[Jillrp]

Good morning. Watching/Reading today's news. A RSO who has been in jail moved to a new residence and did not register as a RSO in the new location. Yesterday, police were waiting at the residence, he pulled up by car with his girlfriend, he saw the police and he took off. They are looking for him. I'm calling that towns police station to make sure they check with Delphi. Also, why would you run if it were an honest mistake. So many sickos. They are living everywhere!! Be aware sleuths, stay aware.....


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[deugirtni]

Didn't LE already investigate all avenues on any and all sm that the girls were involved with, and found zero evidence of them being "lured" or "catfished"?

Could you provide a link? Thanks.

That was a question..I wasn't stating it as fact.
Just wondering if anyone remembered hearing or posting it several threads back.

I'm sure LE has investigated every avenue they can to the best of their abilities with what they have to date, however I don't think LE has enlightened MSM or the public as to any of their findings. During their early press conference they did say anything is possible, everything is on the table.

From the press conference around Feb 22, 2017:

starting at 23:40 (Sorry, I don't know the officer's name or which service he's with, I think ISP):

Officer: Is there any specific information that says the person is local, or far away - no. Could this be a 'stranger-crime' - that's a possibility. Could this be somebody that knew the girls were going to be there at that time - that's a possibility. Nothing is off the table.

....

Reporter: How long after Liberty posted to social media did this crime happen. And did the murders happen immediately after, or was there time for someone to see them on social media and then meet them on that trail?

Officer: That's a question(??).. we know there are going to be lots of questions that we specifically cannot answer, because there are things that we do not want to tip our hand to the person that's responsible for this. Um, that kind of information, we're keeping close to ourselves. Is it reasonable to think that that's an area.. well one of two things happened - that it was a chance encounter - that's possible - don't think it's likely, but it's possible. Or - that person knew that they were going to be there - that's possible as well. Those are the things that we're looking into.

Reporter: Online communication with this individual - has there been any evidence of that from the girls with this person?

Officer: Similar to what I just said, there's specific pieces of information we're not discussing. Uh, best example I can give you is if uh, if somebody is a victim of a murderer and then they're murdered, everybody wants to know how they were murdered. If we go into the details and we say they were stabbed twice in the back and they were shot in the head, uh, then everybody hears that, and then we get tips and people tell us that, and the tip is useless. We're keeping information that will only be known by the person, or by who that person told, and when that's shared with us, it will set off alarm bells and we'll know.

[video=youtube;mZcHfgbOcKo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZcHfgbOcKo[/video]

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Good morning. Watching/Reading today's news. A RSO who has been in jail moved to a new residence and did not register as a RSO in the new location. Yesterday, police were waiting at the residence, he pulled up by car with his girlfriend, he saw the police and he took off. They are looking for him. I'm calling that towns police station to make sure they check with Delphi. Also, why would you run if it were an honest mistake. So many sickos. They are living everywhere!! Be aware sleuths, stay aware.....

Right before my stint volunteeering in juvenile one boy ran and shot himsrld dead rather than goback to jail for violating conditions of release for having pot on him and a gun in the glove compartment.

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He could have run rather than be sent back to jail for violating conditions of release?

 

[Jillrp]

I have to agree with others though, that she does look rather dolled up for a hike in the woods, and even when we consider her attire in comparison to LG's attire that day. Could it have been a planned meetup for AW, with LG along for the ride... I heard in the beginning that AW did not have a cellphone, but then later it has been said that both girls did. Does anyone know which is correct? If AW did not have her own cellphone, and she was a more private person on SM, it may be more difficult for police to get a handle on her activities and communications, and it could explain LG taking video.. perhaps LG was a little more streetsmart and feeling somewhat hesitant about AW's plans?

Awful assumption "dolled up".... So, is Their fault? Irresponsible for being teen girls? IMO it was NOT a meet up. There is a Pittsburgh policeman (he was on swat team, had many years experience). sitting in jail right now because he was pursuing a 13 year old girl... Read the news, pay attention, There is a killer (BG) on the run and he is LIVING SOMEWHERE, AND IN SOMEONES TOWN and IMO he is FAR from Indiana!! And he will strike again unless he is found... Let's find him, or at least try and let's blame him please.....


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[JnRyan]

After an audio and photos were released by LE, I thought for sure there would be an arrest by now. I don't know why, but it almost seems like over 13,000 tips is too much? Like LE is searching for a needle in a haystack and that's if the murderer is in there somewhere.

If we just look at Carroll County there is roughly 20K residents:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_County,_Indiana

If half of those are male, we have 10K males. Then, of those, some would be too old/young, wrong color hair, wrong race and we may only have about 5-7K, maybe less, that even remotely match the suspect. And we have 13K tips. Granted, some of those may be from outside the county like Lafayette or Indianapolis and there are likely mentioning a person more than once, but it would seem the tips have covered most possible suspects - from physical appearance - in the surrounding area.

Now I really wonder if they have the suspect in those 13K, but they haven't gotten to him yet or someone like family member provided a false alibi. With that many tips to run down a false alibi just might stand up.

 

[Penny4them]

Penny4them, i agree that with the technology today with cellphones and being able to retrieve info from celltowers that LE having the FBI involved that they have looked at that, jmo he doesn't have a cellphone and probably didn't have any communition with the girls. With the sheriff saying that being on the force for 30 years.and not ever seeing the suspect i don't think he is local. I think he was passing through, walking on an abandoned railroad track heading north and came to the end where the trail ended that the girls were on.
Imo he was walking off the grid, not walking on roads which some don't allow pedestrian traffic anyway. I don't think this was a planned murder, can't imagine why he did this other then they saw him. Jmo

I don't think he's quite as stupid as he looks or has acted.
I think he knows perfectly well what he is doing, but that is good because he won't be able to play the insanity card when he comes to trial.
I feel his attire is nothing but a "disguise", he probably won't be local but have indepth local knowledge attained in some way.

As for planning, possibly not planned but always prepared, just in case an opportunity arises.
Just my opinion but I don't believe this is his first evil act, maybe the first of this magnitude.

Jmo, but I believe he has a home, a family, a job, a car, access to everyday technology, or certainly some of the above, i believe he has a life so far removed from his hidden demon persona that no one around him would ever put two and two together that he is the same person as this evil criminal, in fact I don't believe those around him would think he has it in him as I believe he is probably viewed as the "weak" one in the family.

He's weak, a weak pathetic person, (we know this by this crime he committed) probably had/has a domineering parent or parents, he's insignificant in his world and this is his sick answer ... hurting innocent children.
So when he's caught & he will be caught, it'll confirm to those around him they were right, he is weak & pathetic, a let down to his family who always knew he would mess up but probably never expected it to be in such an incredibly selfish, sadistic & hideous manner.

So no matter how many crimes he commits to "show them" he's not a spineless nobody, in reality when all is finally revealed about him, all he's done is confirmed their suspicions that there was "always something odd about him".

This rant is all mine, just all my own imagination & opinion!
Trying to view from a different perspective as he doesn't seem to have been identified in the "criminal fraternity" & im sure the reward would have tempted many if they knew who he was.

 

[Esse]

I have been thinking about that from the first time that I saw the photo of Abbie! I would not have been able to identify her as the same girl in any of the other photos that I have seen of her. It's not only that she is possibly older and matured... she just doesn't look like the same child! This has really bothered me because I realize that BG may look very different than his photos.

But, if BG was your husband, brother, son, boyfriend or next door neighbor, chances are that you would be able to recognize him.

 

[kittymittons]

True, but serial killers are not as common as movies / TV might have us believe.

Radford University has some serial killer statistics available online.

Number of serial killer victims by year (USA):

2010 -- 129
2011 -- 91
2012 -- 101
2013 -- 70
2014 -- 71
2015 -- 57
2016 -- 25

(For years 2014 - 2016 they warn to allow for a lag between murder and identification of the serial killer.)

Source: http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Serial Killer Information Center/Serial Killer Statistics.pdf

I feel like these are pretty high numbers, to be honest. I realize there are far more murders not committed by serial killers. But upwards of 70 some to a hundred and some? Damn. It's honestly more common than I thought, looking at those numbers.


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[antechinusRAWR]

Re the catfish theories, this is a statement from LE one week into the investigation :

CASAREZ: "Do you believe that these young girls at all could have been innocently communicating with someone who may have even not led to his real identity, to meet that person at this trail for a couple of hours?

SLOCUM: Well, anything`s possible, but the evidence we have thus far has not revealed that to be true. Unfortunately, these young ladies were just doing what teenage girls do. They were -- they were enjoying a beautiful day on a beautiful trail in a beautiful part of Indiana, and these crimes occurred".

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1702/21/ptab.01.html

 

[Scarlett12]

“I go back before DNA and cell phones,” said Ives who remembered prosecuting criminal cases in Carroll County with less evidence than in this case since 1987, “and I certainly would have said, if experienced investigators, as we have in this case, had the evidence that was available in this case, I would expect them to solve it within a month. That’s without DNA and cell phones which are a big part of what’s going on here.

“No arrest is imminent,” he said. “No case is close to being developed.”

That extraordinary evidence came from Libby’s cellphone as the young girl’s device yielded at least two images of a man dressed in blue clothes walking along the bridge and captured his voice as he ordered the children, “Down the hill,” to their deaths.

“If you see that picture and you hear that voice, and you’re going to call in a tip, explain why,” urged Ives. “’I’ve seen him wear those clothes, I know the way he walks, I know that combination of clothing, I know that voice, I know something about him.’

“’Not only do I know that person, but he said something to me, I saw something about him.’”

http://fox59.com/2017/03/14/prosecu...r-received-crucial-tip-due-to-scope-of-probe/

Maybe it is just me but this is very telling.,

1) if experienced investigators had the evidence that was available in this case I would expect them to solve it in one month"

2) "That's without DNA and cell phones which are a big part of what's going on here"

I think they know who did this , they have evidence.. but they are waiting to make sure every i is dotted and t crossed. They don't want some fancy lawyers to get this off on some legitimate doubt.

If it wasn't today's world there would have already been an arrest is how I read it.


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[JnRyan]

But, if BG was your husband, brother, son, boyfriend or next door neighbor, chances are that you would be able to recognize him.

If BG was someone's husband, boyfriend, brother or son I tend to believe there is a greater chance they would provide a false alibi. Even if they aren't afraid of him, they might do it because don't believe he did it and they 'just want the whole thing to go away'. How many times has a girlfriend or wife provided a false alibi when there was only one or two suspects and it may have taken over a decade before LE finally got the suspect. Here, I believe I read where LE has interviewed 300 men. I can't believe, even with the additional resources, that LE can spend enough time to try to break each alibi.

I believe we are going to need something else and right now I have no idea what that something else could possibly be.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I have to agree with others though, that she does look rather dolled up for a hike in the woods, and even when we consider her attire in comparison to LG's attire that day. Could it have been a planned meetup for AW, with LG along for the ride... I heard in the beginning that AW did not have a cellphone, but then later it has been said that both girls did. Does anyone know which is correct? If AW did not have her own cellphone, and she was a more private person on SM, it may be more difficult for police to get a handle on her activities and communications, and it could explain LG taking video.. perhaps LG was a little more streetsmart and feeling somewhat hesitant about AW's plans?

BBM. I'm not sure how to not be upset at this statement. Dolled up? She was dressed in jeans, sneakers, and a sweater with her hair pulled up. How in the world is that "dolled up"? She was a teenager for crying out loud, and dressed like a typical, normal teenager.

 

[Penny4them]

BBM. I'm not sure how to not be upset at this statement. Dolled up? She was dressed in jeans, sneakers, and a sweater with her hair pulled up. How in the world is that "dolled up"? She was a teenager for crying out loud, and dressed like a typical, normal teenager.

Totally agree, Abby is dressed exactly how my teenage daughter would dress, I thought we were a victim friendly forum!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes, I get what you're saying. My thoughts were that Abby was dressed to get some great photos of her by Libby but others are thinking she might have been meeting a paramour. I'm in a location where photo shoots by teens in nature settings are very prevalent and Abby looks like many of the photos I see here JMO

ABC - National News - Regional Daily News

Arika said she and Abby "went to the criminal justice area" at the school because they "both had the same dream of doing something within forensics and police ...

What if the girls both were on their hiking trip to catch some suspicious people on camera? Maybe they previously had seen illegal activities in that area which they couldn't exactly explain to themselves. Maybe they planned "to help police" (unknown to police/parents) with something/some pics/some observations? - THAT would be a twist if they went for something but became the victims of the same suspicious people.

 

[GGE]

Are there any clubs that men from Delphi and surrounding areas meet up in nearby like a gun club, pool tournament etc?

In the Jessica Heeringa case the suspect attended a Magic the gathering card game tournament before he is believed to have abducted and killed Jessica from the gas station she worked at close by.

I think a guy is more likely to recognise BG than a woman unless he has harassed women/teens in the past. He possibly doesn't have many interactions with females in his life out with immediate family.

It would be good for police to get his photo up and hand out leaflets where men meet up in bars and gun clubs etc and see if it produces any leads. He might not live in Delphi but he may know the area because he gone to a club there over the years.

I am pages behind. We got 33 inches of snow here and it's kept us very busy (spouse and child plow/clear snow for a living, so I've had to hold down the fort here with firewood etc). I did not realize there was a suspect in Jessica's case. Thank you for mentioning it.

I'm guessing nothing new has happened since this time yesterday... ? thanks and good morning everyone.

 

[bethieb]

She does. Oh My! Is that a "Catfish"?

:wink:

I saw what you did there! Thanks for the giggle this morning!

 

[Elley Mae]

I imagine with lack of electronic evidence of communication that friends from school/ neighborhood would also have been talked to about anything the girls may have said about them possibly meeting someone. Jmo i just don't think that iswhy they went that day, as they had went there to walk in the past. I truely don't this was a place well traveled and see "a stranger" could have sparked the video to be taken. I still don't think he knew that.

Re the catfish theories, this is a statement from LE one week into the investigation :

CASAREZ: "Do you believe that these young girls at all could have been innocently communicating with someone who may have even not led to his real identity, to meet that person at this trail for a couple of hours?

SLOCUM: Well, anything`s possible, but the evidence we have thus far has not revealed that to be true. Unfortunately, these young ladies were just doing what teenage girls do. They were -- they were enjoying a beautiful day on a beautiful trail in a beautiful part of Indiana, and these crimes occurred".

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1702/21/ptab.01.html

 

[kellala]

I feel like these are pretty high numbers, to be honest. I realize there are far more murders not committed by serial killers. But upwards of 70 some to a hundred and some? Damn. It's honestly more common than I thought, looking at those numbers.


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And those are solved cases. In the unsolved cases, I believe many are done by SK. JMO


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