IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #28

[Eloise]

ABC - National News - Regional Daily News


What if the girls both were on their hiking trip to catch some suspicious people on camera? Maybe they previously had seen illegal activities in that area which they couldn't exactly explain to themselves. Maybe they planned to help police with something/some pics/some observations? - THAT would be a twist if they went for something but became the victims of the same suspicious people.

When my friend and I were about 13, we met in the bush (i.e. forest or woods for non-Aussies) a few times after school to 'spy' on some people we'd seen carrying stuff in there. Kids at the time were free to roam and there were no mobile phones! Wasn't until a couple of years later we found out that a few people grew marijuana in there, and they were probably visiting marijuana plants they were growing. It's lucky for us they didn't see us - or didn't care! I think it's plausible such a similar thing (not that I'm saying he was growing anything) would seem like a cool adventure for the girls.

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[kellala]

If BG was someone's husband, boyfriend, brother or son I tend to believe there is a greater chance they would provide a false alibi. Even if they aren't afraid of him, they might do it because don't believe he did it and they 'just want the whole thing to go away'. How many times has a girlfriend or wife provided a false alibi when there was only one or two suspects and it may have taken over a decade before LE finally got the suspect. Here, I believe I read where LE has interviewed 300 men. I can't believe, even with the additional resources, that LE can spend enough time to try to break each alibi.

I believe we are going to need something else and right now I have no idea what that something else could possibly be.

I am with you. Look at all those SK, unless the evidences are done deal, I would think his close family will provide false alibi. They probably don't want to drag into the media attention and length lawsuit, appeals, etc. they don't want to be marked as SK's mom, son, wife, etc.


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[Elley Mae]

I am with you. Look at all those SK, unless the evidences are done deal, I would think his close family will provide false alibi. They probably don't want to drag into the media attention and length lawsuit, appeals, etc. they don't want to be marked as SK's mom, son, wife, etc.


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True i just found out that a guy in prison for life for child sex rape, his grandmother has told no one close to her, only family knows and not sure how far out that goes. I guess it's the shame, & that he had been put on a pedestal as my wonderful grandson. Jmo

 

[KenzieK]

After an audio and photos were released by LE, I thought for sure there would be an arrest by now. I don't know why, but it almost seems like over 13,000 tips is too much? Like LE is searching for a needle in a haystack and that's if the murderer is in there somewhere.

If we just look at Carroll County there is roughly 20K residents:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_County,_Indiana

If half of those are male, we have 10K males. Then, of those, some would be too old/young, wrong color hair, wrong race and we may only have about 5-7K, maybe less, that even remotely match the suspect. And we have 13K tips. Granted, some of those may be from outside the county like Lafayette or Indianapolis and there are likely mentioning a person more than once, but it would seem the tips have covered most possible suspects - from physical appearance - in the surrounding area.

Now I really wonder if they have the suspect in those 13K, but they haven't gotten to him yet or someone like family member provided a false alibi. With that many tips to run down a false alibi just might stand up.

The following is pure speculation on my part:

I obviously don't know what types of tips were received. However, just judging from a lot of what is posted right here on WS many "tips" do not name a specific individual. It's just general speculation, theories, and attempts to tell LE how to do their job. Some people here admitted they sent in multiple "tips" just based on "the hobby we shall not sleuth". Some people here admitted they sent in multiple "tips" just based on what they believe they see in the picture of the suspect. Also, a good portion of the 13,000 tips are repeats. I have no way of knowing how many, but if I had to guess about two thirds of the tips are duplicates, triplicates, etc. LE did make it a point to tell the public not to duplicate their own tips. So we do know it's a real problem.

ETA: I think this search is much more challenging than looking for a needle in a haystack. At least the needle in the haystack doesn't move on its own. You can slowly work your way through every little piece of hay and eventually you ARE going to find the needle. This search is like multiple moving haystacks, and a needle that can jump back into a haystack that's already been searched. No portion of that haystack can ever be eliminated even if it has been searched before because the suspect can keep moving in and out of any area. So frustrating.

 

[pinklilies]

I cannot imagine how long it takes or the manpower needed to trawl through all those tips. 13000? It baffles me how they manage it. And they're still asking for more.

 

[Rachel1]

The following is pure speculation on my part:

I obviously don't know what types of tips were received. However, just judging from a lot of what is posted right here on WS many "tips" do not name a specific individual. It's just general speculation, theories, and attempts to tell LE how to do their job. Some people here admitted they sent in multiple "tips" just based on "the hobby we shall not sleuth". Some people here admitted they sent in multiple "tips" just based on what they believe they see in the picture of the suspect. Also, a good portion of the 13,000 tips are repeats. I have no way of knowing how many, but if I had to guess about two thirds of the tips are duplicates, triplicates, etc. LE did make it a point to tell the public not to duplicate their own tips. So we do know it's a real problem.

ETA: I think this search is much more challenging than looking for a needle in a haystack. At least the needle in the haystack doesn't move on its own. You can slowly work your way through every little piece of hay and eventually you ARE going to find the needle. This search is like multiple moving haystacks, and a needle that can jump back into a haystack that's already been searched. No portion of that haystack can ever be eliminated even if it has been searched before because the suspect can keep moving in and out of any area. So frustrating.

Agreed
I have been following this thread since the beginning but don't often chime in. I've noticed the same thing .
I think if someone thinks they know who BG is then they should call immediately, even if they aren't sure. But I don't think calling in tips about what he may have in his pocket or the "Irish" accent people claimed to have heard is all that helpful. LE has the video, we've only gotten to see two stills and three or four words spoken. LE surely has more then we do. I don't think calling in random theories is helpful at all.

 

[kc1023]

Good morning, let's hope today is the day.

I am catching up from last night and I see discussion of media coverage back around page 25 or so and thought I'd pop in and say that last night WRTV6 (theindychannel.com), an Indianapolis station, did a FB Live feed last night with the headline that it had been one month since the murders. It started about 9:30 p.m. and looks like they ran it for about 4 hours. The "live" feed itself was a repeating slideshow of BG and a constant loop of "down the hill" playing.

I don't know how to link to that or if we are allowed so MOO I suppose but it was a good idea I thought and probably got a lot of people to tune in at least for a few minutes.

 

[Angelo]

Good morning, let's hope today is the day.

I am catching up from last night and I see discussion of media coverage back around page 25 or so and thought I'd pop in and say that last night WRTV6 (theindychannel.com), an Indianapolis station, did a FB Live feed last night with the headline that it had been one month since the murders. It started about 9:30 p.m. and looks like they ran it for about 4 hours. The "live" feed itself was a repeating slideshow of BG and a constant loop of "down the hill" playing.

I don't know how to link to that or if we are allowed so MOO I suppose but it was a good idea I thought and probably got a lot of people to tune in at least for a few minutes.

Here it is.

https://www.facebook.com/WRTV6/videos/10154610598814092/

 

[michael.gartley]

Here is a comparison of a small region of one of the Snapchat images from three different sources. The region is from the lower left hand side of the image in trees below the bridge.

The screenshots are zoomed in versions from the dailymail.co.uk article, the heavy.com version of the article and the last from the IndyChannel.com. All three news websites likely do a little of their own Photoshop-type processing (sharpening, cropping, re-sizing, sometimes even color balancing), which is why I was interested in the original version that is untouched if possible.

thanks.

 

[TTF14]

Why is everyone so adverse on the catfish theory? The poor girl does look over dressed for the woods. 13 year old girls do like boys and sometimes lie to their parents. Not right or wrong, just life.

Most logical assumptions

Planned is much more likely. If planned, catfish is the main next assumption.

Sheesh, for a bunch of "sleuths" I've seen nothing but resistance to anything other than debating over the pixels of an intentially blurry photo. Steve jobs would roll over in his grave if he heard people saying that was the best quality they could retrieve. All he other pics were super high res, but those two still were from a potato.

A good detective would consider a theory instead of disregarding it. No one is judging the girls for potentially meeting a boy and telling a small lie. It's just foolish not to consider it. You all owe it to the girls to consider all possibilities.

Imagine if they were catfished and everyone just disregarded the theory? The girls deserve more than that.

Over dressed for the woods? You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I totally disagree. She was dressed 100% appropriately for going in the woods and taking photos, IMO.

 

[No it's not]

That´s a picture from the side where girls walked or the another side?

That's a view from the NW side aka the "front end" of the bridge, where the trail officially ends. More interesting historical pictures here:

http://www.monon.monon.org/bygone/deercreek.html

-Nin

 

[bethieb]

OT
This was just posted here in local news. Loretta Norvell from Trenton, OH was found safe!! Awesome news!

http://www.wlwt.com/article/teenager-missing-for-months-out-of-trenton-found-safe/9133726

 

[Eileen730]

Jmo
I think the girls saw something.
I don't think the dude was alone.
Others involved.
The dude on the bridge led them to the others .
They couldn't leave witness.
I do not think this man on the bridge was there to meet these girls.
They saw something.

All jmo

 

[Hatfield]

JMO

Been trying to look at the big picture and coming to these conclusions.

A few quality tips from the public would be better than a massive volume of general tips that dont seem to be helping.

We need another bread crumb from LE to be able to provide those quality tips they need.

They should be able to release the moving video at least up to what we already see.
That could help identify his walk or gait and that could help people identify him.

Or release more of the sound clips from his voice. Maybe even a word or two more can be clipped out.
Maybe they could find certain portions where they could clip out a word or two.

He is either still local or he has left the area. Im beginning to think he has left the area.
If he has left the area then its going to take the BG messing up in another state or town to catch him.

Here is the important thing. Just like the public the other LE agencies are going to need something too in order
to know they have caught him if they arrest someone on an unrelated charge. So it is important that something more is released. Or at least to other LE agencies. Other LE agencies need something like finger prints or DNA or his name.

I am assuming they have collected some DNA or finger prints from the perp. I dont understand why there is no
match to CODIS or no match to finger prints databases. The BG seems to be the type that would have had a record in CODIS or had his finger prints on file somewhere. I dont understand why no matches.
Starting to wonder if he had rubber gloves on his hands while in his pockets.

The two things we need to know to help find BG is the motive and more of the video or sound clips.

The motive can tell us if he was local or not. If we could know whether they were sexually attacked or just to fake out investigators to make it look that way then it could help to know if he was local or not.

 

[GGE]

Why do you think girls don't go hiking?
Where I lived that's all we did...even grabbed my wilderness first responders license. News flash, girls walk in the woods.

Indeed. One only has to read some articles or watch the grandfather's news conference or look at the girls' social media to know they were avid GC'ers, hikers, nature photographers, sports players, and outdoors enthusiasts.

some posts are best just scrolled past because we can't force someone to become acquainted with the details of the case before they post here. JMO

 

[Blythe]

MOO I refuse to believe that the girls are responsible for the outcome of that day. I believe they were doing what they enjoyed together as good friends totally guileless. JMO No links

I think, however, they may be responsible for ensuring they were found and for getting video of the perp. Quite possibly they were able to mitigate some horror; I choose to believe that. IMO JMO MOO

Turn him in.

 

[her]

Indeed. One only has to read some articles or watch the grandfather's news conference or look at the girls' social media to know they were avid GC'ers, hikers, nature photographers, sports players, and outdoors enthusiasts.

some posts are best just scrolled past because we can't force someone to become acquainted with the details of the case before they post here. JMO

Thanks, I should but there is only so much sexism I can handle in this lifetime. It's also not very victim friendly. Off to work for me anyway. Look forward to catching up later. Be safe all.

 

[I_wonder]

Obviously we are all frustrated with the lack of info the police give....& that is their prerogative. We do not need to know everything they know.
BUT, I wonder what will be the tipping point for them to release more.
Will it be when they wade through all but 1,000 tips? Or when they completely exhaust every avenue??
2 days after girls were found, the the photo of person was released. 3 days later he was now 'suspect'.....2 days after that, they release audio. Stating they hop they don't have to release anything else.
It only took a couple days to decide to release audio, but yet now, 3 weeks later, they still don't feel the need to release anything else??
It is so frustrating for us. I can't begin to imagine how frustrating it is for the family to not have caught this

 

[CementPond]

Checking in. I see nothing has changed in the case. Wish they could release a little of "something" that may help. Sigh

I see people commenting on the way the girls were dressed that day and whether or not they were "dressed up" or dressed "appropriately" for hiking. Let me just say, between the ages of 14 and 16 I wore heels (originally the small 2 inch ones then eventually 4 inch ones) EVERY DAY of my life during those years. This includes in the rain, sleet, snow, etc. In fact, it's still an on going joke with me and all my friends about how it could be 6 inches of snow and I'd be in my heels. Back then we used to "hang" on "the corner" too which meant I'd be outside like that for hours on end cold, heat, didn't matter. I had my heels on. Hell, I could even run in them! We'd walk miles around the neighborhood, to the mall, down by the river, through parks, on playground equipment, etc......But I had my heels on. Anyway, just saying, if something had happened to me back in the day and I was found dead in the woods with my heels on, for example, all my family and friends would know that that was not an odd thing for me to be dressed like that in that kind of environment. Hell, I could have ended up there due to hiking, taking a short cut, meeting friends, going on a hot date,....who knows! There would be no way to tell what I was doing there because the clothing and me actually being in that type of environment would have been very normal for me. Heels were just my thing. Something I loved to wear.

We just don't know what's normal and not for any given person. Or what they found comfy, etc. I mean, we all have at least one friend who refuses to even go to the mailbox without makeup. Then there are those of us who only wear it on special occasion. Everyone and their comfort levels are different. What may be "normal" to one person may be odd for someone else. You just never know. IMO

 

[Spellbound]

OT...
I just had a strange thing happen. I wrote a reply and got the message it will be posted after it had mod approval.....? Never had that happen before, and do not know why it did this time.

This is what I had posted (without the quoted part):


It really bothers me that some think the girls should not have been out there.

Some reasons for them to be there:
two friends having fun
being outside, getting exercise, and not plopped in front of a TV, computer, video game, etc
In broad daylight
early afternoon
an area locals (and young teens) were known to frequent
where strangers were not likely to be (seems to be an unknown area even when peeps here tried to find it)
enjoying Libby's hobby of taking pics
on a day off from school
wearing jeans/sweats, t-shirts/swearshirt, tennis shoes-- not fancy weat IMO
hair up or down: does it really matter ... it wasn't fancy IMO
they were out in a pair, not alone
they had a cell phone (tho it did not save them)