IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #28

[ha60]

I think initially when they reported that recording, it contained both the 4th word, and the background noise, but then later, on other sites (like the FBI's site), they had removed both the 'g' sound and the background noise. Obviously LE doesn't want people to consider the g word, for whatever reason, and wants people to only focus on the 3 words........ which, if you knew the person, would likely be enough to raise enough doubt in the mind that it could be that person, that it would prompt the person to make that call. Does it actually matter whether he said 'down the hill', or 'git down the hill', or 'go down the hill', or whatever, I think it all means the same anyway, and unless we can actually identify the perp from the voice and the photo, it doesn't really help us much. jmo and not meaning that to come off as snide!!!! And not directed at the poster above either, but just in general!!

IMO I think there was something on that audio prior to the "down the hill" statement, such as a scream, crying, something that LE didn't want us to hear. The audio seems very carefully snipped.

 

[DavidC]

It's clear to me he isn't saying that, it's a matter of option. With nobody charged I think he just means a girl took a photo of a guy on a bridge that may have killed her that's a twist on usual killings.

He didn't even reference the photos. Not sure how you can deduce that is what he meant.

 

[Steleheart]

OT but the snow where I am is nearly 30 inches deep. There's no way to get out. I hope everyone is staying safe and warm and doesn't lose electricity, who is in the way of this massive nor'easter.

Still O/T, sorry. I am getting the same here in MA. Lights flickering, blizzard/ whiteout conditions. I know I will have to shut down and will miss a lot here.

 

[thorpedo]

OT but the snow where I am is nearly 30 inches deep. There's no way to get out. I hope everyone is staying safe and warm and doesn't lose electricity, who is in the way of this massive nor'easter.

My family is in upstate New York. I transplanted to Texas. While pictures of all the snow are being circulated by text message, I texted a picture of my kids in the pool! My BIL in Rochester hasn't had power in a week from that last bit of windy weather that they had, now this! Stay warm and safe.

 

[OtisC]

That just makes my mind race...

I hate to even go there... But does that mean the positioning of the bodies?, and/or the cause of death??

Not to get too morbid here, but did he hang the girls? or position them in such a way that has never been seen or heard of before? I just can't imagine that if they found the bodies and there was (I hate to say) the "usual" sexual attack or "usual" brutality, that they have not seen that before. If that LE statement is accurate, this is just hard to imagine.

Just to be clear, the "statement" you placed in larger and bold font (thus this must be what you are referring to) was not made by LE.

The sheriff indicated a twist in this case. Anything derived from that is pure speculation (including my theory) and has no solid base.

Isn't it interesting where the mind takes us in such different places.

The above is my opinion only.

 

[Ashley95]

IMO I think there was something on that audio prior to the "down the hill" statement, such as a scream, crying, something that LE didn't want us to hear. The audio seems very carefully snipped.

Yes of course. I think them saying it's the stuff nightmares were made of and hoping they wouldn't have to release anymore says it all. Snuff audio/video and either way I hope it doesn't get leaked.

 

[Elley Mae]

IMO I think there was something on that audio prior to the "down the hill" statement, such as a scream, crying, something that LE didn't want us to hear. The audio seems very carefully snipped.

Agree, before and after those 3-4 words. Jmo

 

[Eclipse]

From the maps i have seen the location where their bodies were found is not visable from the bridge. As far as i know the image of abby was 2:07? The image of the suspect was 2:30? I don't recall seeing/hearing what time the audio of the "down the hill" was recorded. I am thinking jmo that was said on the way to where they were found. Jmo

Thanks for the reply. Has there been any links to statements saying that people went over that area when searching the first time and didn't find them there? It seems close to the bridge, so it would be odd if it weren't canvassed the evening they disappeared. Family was said to have searched hours after the other searchers quit, so I can't imagine that this area wasn't gone over until the next day.

 

[OtisC]

He didn't even reference the photos. Not sure how you can deduce that is what he meant.

You are correct, he did not state what the "twist" is.

However, from what facts we know, it can be deduced that taking audio and video of your killer is somewhat unique.

The above is my opinion only.

 

[MsMarple]

I have wondered why someone would risk attacking/murdering two people on such a fairly well travelled trail in the middle of the day. The area surrounding it doesn't seem all that remote from what I read about either.
It just seems crazy risky unless he intended something quick- like a robbery, or took them somewhere else in a vehicle, intimidating them with a gun or saying he had a gun.

If he took them elsewhere and brought them back, it must have been either a SK type ritual/signature type thing or a revenge killing, wanting them to be found as a message to whoever the revenge was directed toward.

It really does seem bizarre to us "normal" people that someone would act out in such a risky manner. IMO - and I'm not a professional - I believe behavior like this is fantasy-driven and once the murderer decides to go forward all he focuses on is the goal and the possibility of being seen recedes from his mind.

By fantasy-driven I mean that they have been thinking about it for a while. Their fantasy may even only be sexual with no intent to kill - until the day that they finally act it out and either things get out of control or they realize that they want to murder their victim.

Thinking about other murders, specifically of young victims, it seems like many are committed in a very short period of time. Gabby Doolin, Shaylyn Ammerman, Bella Grogan-Cannella, Madyson Middleton - all these children were dead in less than an hour after their murderer took them. And all were sexually assaulted too.

Again JMO, I think the murderer in these types of cases goes into a kind of frenzy, as opposed to cases where a perp wants to hold on to the victim, like Ariel Castro for instance. Also, it may be a sign of it being their first murder too, where he's inexperienced and either kills the victim by accident or is nervous to get it over with. Jeffrey Dahmer killed his first victim when he tried to leave. Later on as he got "better" at it he began to experiment with ways to keep victims alive.

MOO.

 

[Nonna Gigi]

For those of us searching for possible reasons for the double murders of Libby and Abby, the following murder that was solved earlier in February in Queens, NY, of Karina Vetrano brings out an interesting theory. She was out jogging on Aug 2, 2016 when she disappeared. Her body was discovered a few hours later.

Basically, the accused murderer 20 yr old Chanel Lewis, who was arrested for the murder, says he just snapped, saw her and starting beating her.

http://nypost.com/2017/02/06/jogger-murder-suspect-i-strangled-her-because-i-was-angry/

This is a very simple solution to a violent crime. No rhyme or reason. Lewis was angry, issues at home, he saw her and just went crazy. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Maybe something as simple as this could be the scenario for Libby and Abby's deaths. I'm not saying it was, just throwing this out there for thought. MOO

 

[Elley Mae]

I also think that the sheriff of 30 years saying he had never seen the suspect before speaks volumes. From post #11

 

[Blythe]

I have wondered why someone would risk attacking/murdering two people on such a fairly well travelled trail in the middle of the day. The area surrounding it doesn't seem all that remote from what I read about either.
It just seems crazy risky unless he intended something quick- like a robbery, or took them somewhere else in a vehicle, intimidating them with a gun or saying he had a gun.

If he took them elsewhere and brought them back, it must have been either a SK type ritual/signature type thing or a revenge killing, wanting them to be found as a message to whoever the revenge was directed toward.

I know that I may be very wrong but I have thought all along that something went wrong for the perp and he did not do what he actually intended to do with the girls. Were they too resistant, was it the video, did time run out or was there some other "twist" if you'll forgive the word?

 

[Griffin59]

Still O/T, sorry. I am getting the same here in MA. Lights flickering, blizzard/ whiteout conditions. I know I will have to shut down and will miss a lot here.

Wind, snow, it's crazy out there. Lost our electricity on and off. Hoping we don't lose it completely. Luckily we have a generator. 30 inches of snow--that's crazy.

 

[Burnt Toast]

3 Words or 4? I always heard 4... "Go down the hill"

when i listen to this I hear "go down the hill" as well.
[video=youtube;H3FOw8DFP5w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3FOw8DFP5w[/video]

 

[Falling Down]

That just makes my mind race...

I hate to even go there... But does that mean the positioning of the bodies?, and/or the cause of death??

Not to get too morbid here, but did he hang the girls? or position them in such a way that has never been seen or heard of before? I just can't imagine that if they found the bodies and there was (I hate to say) the "usual" sexual attack or "usual" brutality, that they have not seen that before. If that LE statement is accurate, this is just hard to imagine.

This part has stuck with me as soon as the LEO stated it.

Something's up, and I'd argue it's another reason for the billboards in dozens of states, and the secrecy surrounding the audio evidence. A ritualistic killing, or something along those lines, would fit in there.

This is why people here keep bringing up BTK. Rader cornered/captured his victims in their own homes, then tortured, raped, murdered, mutilated, etc. them. These girls were cornered, marched to their deaths, and we can only imagine what horrors befell them..

This killer could very well be taunting law enforcement. "Look what I did, and I got away with it" kind of stuff. Sickening.

I just hope the killer has not made actual contact with LE like Rader did, and we don't know about it, yet.

 

[cluciano63]

Any images and video LE has are from L's phone, whether accessed via the Cloud or actual phone. It does not mean they have the phone.

Having video and audio of a suspected child killer taken by a victim, possibly showing the crime, beats any "twist" in any case I have ever seen.

 

[KenzieK]

Thank you, deugirtni. Clearly, the Sheriff is speaking of Liberty and Abigail and not about the dbl homicide from years ago so I hope everyone understands the Sheriff's statement. The Sheriff is telling us that what happened to the children is something that LE has not seen before. It is a twisted individual who committed this type of twisted crime.

No snark intended, but my understanding of the Sheriff's statement is completely different than yours. IMO the word "twist" does not imply a particularly twisted individual, or a particularly twisted crime. The Sheriff was uhm-ing and sighing his way through the entire interview, and I don't think we should read too much into this one particular word. IMO, it clearly wasn't carefully chosen.

In the context of the entire interview, I understand it as this crime is different because there are no leads, no known connection between the perp and the victims. I don't know the statistics, but I assume that the vast majority of murders (other than during the course of a robbery or similar) are committed by someone close or at least known to the victim (crime of passion, domestic violence, life insurance payout, shady business dealings etc.). There usually is a connection, and those crimes are solved easily and quickly (such as the murder of the grandparents by their grandchildren that the Sheriff mentioned).

This crime is unusual because it hasn't been solved after a month, and they cannot come up with a connection between perp and victims. The only thing that I might consider a "twist" in this case is if there was no sexual assault prior to the killing. Rape (and eliminating witnesses) is motive enough to kill a complete stranger, but if these kids were not sexually assaulted then the motive for killing them is a complete mystery. (Unless that was the perp's intention, but he ended up killing them before he had a chance to assault them, which is possible).

Just my 2 cents.

 

[cluciano63]

OT I am jealous of those getting snow, though I hope people stay safe. I am a "summer-hater" out west, dreading eight months of heat ahead . One of those weirdos whose chronic health/pain worsens in hot weather instead of the opposite. Ugh...

 

[SomebodyKnows]

No snark intended, but my understanding of the Sheriff's statement is completely different than yours. IMO the word "twist" does not imply a particularly twisted individual, or a particularly twisted crime. The Sheriff was uhm-ing and sighing his way through the entire interview, and I don't think we should read too much into this one particular word. IMO, it clearly wasn't carefully chosen.

In the context of the entire interview, I understand it as this crime is different because there are no leads, no known connection between the perp and the victims. I don't know the statistics, but I assume that the vast majority of murders are committed by someone close or at least known to the victim (crime of passion, domestic violence, life insurance payout, shady business dealings etc.). There usually is a connection, and those crimes are solved easily and quickly (such as the murder of the grandparents by their grandchildren that the Sheriff mentioned).

This crime is unusual because it hasn't been solved after a month, and they cannot come up with a connection between perp and victims. The only thing that I might consider a "twist" in this case is if there was no sexual assault prior to the killing. Rape (and eliminating witnesses) is motive enough to kill a complete stranger, but if these kids were not sexually assaulted then the motive for killing them is a complete mystery. (Unless that was the perp's intention, but he ended up killing them before he had a chance to assault them, which is possible).

Just my 2 cents.

I really hope you are right! I want less suffering as much as possible with these poor girls.