IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #29

[GGE]

I expressed my opinions earlier and my post was deleted. I saved my post and I can not find anything in it that breaks the rules here.


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If you just send a PM to a moderator and just ask them what you did wrong so you know for the future, they're usually perfectly nice people and are pretty helpful in situations like that. That's probably your best bet, JMO and HTH.

 

[K.jill]

I expressed my opinions earlier and my post was deleted. I saved my post and I can not find anything in it that breaks the rules here.


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Did you quote a post that was deleted maybe?
Ive seen that happen and they have to delete yours as well.

 

[chocolope]

Water helps throw dogs off trail need be, water makes you clean. (In more ways than one)

the front pocket of his shell windbreaker looks packed for action and he had a plan; where he wanted to take them. I bet he had control of the situation, zip ties, tape etc.

I agree about the dogs, but what would be the point? If this was planned -- which IMO it certainly was -- there wouldn't really be any reason to throw dogs off a trail. The murder would be complete by the time LE began searching, and I can't think of any reason to conceal the bodies at that point. They were even left on private property so it doesn't seem like much effort was made to conceal them.

Possible he left them with the intention of returning (many do) but that seems unlikely. He had to know it would garner national attention and the place would be searched immediately.

Still doesn't make any sense if/how the creek was crossed. LE has been deliberately vague likely because only the killer(s) know for sure how it played out, and this will be extremely relevant in court when it comes to establishing premeditation, etc.

 

[drjones]

I expressed my opinions earlier and my post was deleted. I saved my post and I can not find anything in it that breaks the rules here.


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if it is the post i saw then this might be relevant;

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/crime/dont-share-the-delphi-suspect-sketches

 

[DeDee]

Uh Radar online posted a story this morning that is not accurate IMO. Calling this the "snapchat killer"???? Is this the first time this has been put out there like that? So irresponsible IMO. When these stories get sensationalized it just confuses things IMO. Unless it's been quoted elsewhere that LE actually used that term?

During TGs podcast, Sherry McCollum, used the descriptive phrase "SnapChat Murders", also. So Radar is not the first to pin the catchy name to the crimes.

 

[chocolope]

Interesting scenario. Your beginning premise for it is that they exited at the southeast end of the bridge.

Just curious, if they exited the northwest end of the bridge, what would be the sequence of events?

I don't really have any sequence of events for that because it seems unlikely given the photos and locations. It checks out if you look at the proposed flow: [video=youtube;HH3twaMV9Fg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH3twaMV9Fg[/video]

Possible he just sent them across the river to destroy cell phone, throw off searchers, etc. and ensure he could escape from the cemetery nearby after the murders.

 

[pandorasbox]

I agree about the dogs, but what would be the point? If this was planned -- which IMO it certainly was -- there wouldn't really be any reason to throw dogs off a trail. The murder would be complete by the time LE began searching, and I can't think of any reason to conceal the bodies at that point. They were even left on private property so it doesn't seem like much effort was made to conceal them.

Possible he left them with the intention of returning (many do) but that seems unlikely. He had to know it would garner national attention and the place would be searched immediately.

Still doesn't make any sense if/how the creek was crossed. LE has been deliberately vague likely because only the killer(s) know for sure how it played out, and this will be extremely relevant in court when it comes to establishing premeditation, etc.

If you watch this: [video=youtube;yQCv3TeNayk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQCv3TeNayk&t=3s[/video] video, the creek crossing actually looks really easy. I think he probably had the spot in mind. There are hills on the north side, and a big cliff on the south side, making it more private.

I don't think it could be assumed that it would get national attention or the amount of attention it has received. If you look at the other threads of other cases, there are far too many that receive very little attention. Often those that are vulnerable may be runaways or have some other issues. This wasn't the case.

I think the vagueness is more to help weed out tips. Hopefully the perp is found and it goes to trial and our questions are answered.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

There are so many statistics that prove time and time again to be false - like perp is usually related to victim - false imo, especially when it comes to young students or women who work outside the home or girls playing outside. The perp just as likely can be a random stranger or someone who is familiar but not close to the victim (like a customer, neighbor or a local just driving by looking for trouble if not a complete random stranger/serial killer).
When anyone's life is examined this person or that person can look suspicious for various reasons. The cases seldom turn out according to the first impression/theory.

I revisited Jessica Herringa's case from 2012. A local guy she knew as a gas station customer flew under the radar for three years. His cousin knew he was the perp but he stayed silent. It is sickening. Still, no body found in Jessica's case
.
The sicko looks fairly normal. Everyone who knew him claims they're so surprised to find out he's behind her disappearance yet he missed work the days following her abduction and people knew he was creepy/disrespectful towards women.
I guess it's such a stretch to imagine someone you know personally can be this depraved even if they drive the car described and look like the sketch put forth.

At least Jessica's case gives us hope that other cases will be solved eventually too.

 

[sindydee]

Yes, I can see where a hand and part of the sleeve would be proportionate to Abigail's size on the bridge. Sort of lurking in the shadow. Could also be a shoulder and shadow.


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Where are you looking exactly?

 

[notjudgejudi]

I was reading WS posts about the Lyric and Elizabeth case in Iowa and I couldn't tell if I was reading about Iowa or Indiana. The cases are very similar. I went to the WS posted map and it dawned on me that Evansdale Iowa and Delphi Indiana are easy drives from Chicago. I guy could easily get lost in Chicago. He doesn't have to be a city boy to live there. He could live in the city or out in the burbs. I still believe one guy is responsible for both cases.

 

[chocolope]

If you watch this: [video=youtube;yQCv3TeNayk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQCv3TeNayk&t=3s[/video] video, the creek crossing actually looks really easy. I think he probably had the spot in mind. There are hills on the north side, and a big cliff on the south side, making it more private.

I don't think it could be assumed that it would get national attention or the amount of attention it has received. If you look at the other threads of other cases, there are far too many that receive very little attention. Often those that are vulnerable may be runaways or have some other issues. This wasn't the case.

I think the vagueness is more to help weed out tips. Hopefully the perp is found and it goes to trial and our questions are answered.

Hadn't seen this video. This makes a lot of sense then and would explain why the creek was crossed, likely before the actual murders took place. Thanks for sharing.

Honestly surprised that entire section of forest isn't taped off. Either LE had enough evidence as-is, or none at all, and figured the criminal was careful enough that they didn't bother combing the entire path.

 

[Imvp2]

I have thought the same (no sexual assault) i am having doubts on dna, that being one reason, the other is that his dna is not in the data base.

I think he got interrupted during the crime. Perhaps by a family member calling out the girls names during the pick up time Perhaps? But prior to LE being called. Just thinking

 

[Elley Mae]

Could the twist be the two different dates of death?

 

[Inthedetails]

Could the twist be the two different dates of death?

I think the twist was that the victim recorded the perp.

jmopinion

 

[pandorasbox]

Hadn't seen this video. This makes a lot of sense then and would explain why the creek was crossed, likely before the actual murders took place. Thanks for sharing.

Honestly surprised that entire section of forest isn't taped off. Either LE had enough evidence as-is, or none at all, and figured the criminal was careful enough that they didn't bother combing the entire path.

No problem. They taped off at the end of the bridge shortly after that video was shot. Not sure if it is still. If you look at that lady's other videos she has several more good ones from her trips there.

 

[SilentRogue]

There are so many statistics that prove time and time again to be false - like perp is usually related to victim - false imo, especially when it comes to young students or women who work outside the home or girls playing outside. The perp just as likely can be a random stranger or someone who is familiar but not close to the victim (like a customer, neighbor or a local just driving by looking for trouble if not a complete random stranger/serial killer).
When anyone's life is examined this person or that person can look suspicious for various reasons. The cases seldom turn out according to the first impression/theory.

I revisited Jessica Herringa's case from 2012. A local guy she knew as a gas station customer flew under the radar for three years. His cousin knew he was the perp but he stayed silent. It is sickening. Still, no body found in Jessica's case
.
The sicko looks fairly normal. Everyone who knew him claims they're so surprised to find out he's behind her disappearance yet he missed work the days following her abduction and people knew he was creepy/disrespectful towards women.
I guess it's such a stretch to imagine someone you know personally can be this depraved even if they drive the car described and look like the sketch put forth.

At least Jessica's case gives us hope that other cases will be solved eventually too.

I've never, ever heard that a perp is "usually related to a victim." I've always heard that most victims know their attacker(s), which is absolutely true and is indicated even in your example of Jessica Heeringa.


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[Hazelnutty]

Uh Radar online posted a story this morning that is not accurate IMO. Calling this the "snapchat killer"???? Is this the first time this has been put out there like that? So irresponsible IMO. When these stories get sensationalized it just confuses things IMO. Unless it's been quoted elsewhere that LE actually used that term?

I do agree that media sites need to be more responsible in getting and reporting an accurate story. However, that site wants to get a lot of traffic and generate more revenue from the ads, so they do things to grab attention. Since there is fact in that Liberty's last Snapchat photo happened to be the last photo of Abigail, the website is going to pick and chose popular verbiage to grab headlines.

On a side note, tho the report may not be accurate, it does keep Liberty and Abigail in the spotlight. And, hopefully, make parents watch their children's SM presence & actions much more carefully.


IMOHO

 

[kellala]

When people keep saying Abby was dressed up I just shake my head. She wear converse, jeans, tank top and a zip up hoody. Nothing dress up. If she wears a skirt, dress, boots with bare legs that maybe called dress up. I don't see nervous and shyness here either, to me, it is just a perfectly normal teen minding her own business in the beautiful nature. I do think BG was fully prepared but I don't think the girls are waiting him. JMO


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[sf92]

A different view of things after watching some of the MSM videos.

I know it is most likely a very big stretch here but..... what if the whole "down the hill" clip is meaning to go down the hill that the property owner took some of the news media?

 

[chocolope]

Could the twist be the two different dates of death?

Thought about this a bit. It's possible, but this wouldn't be much of a "twist" for an investigator with much more information than we have. For example, if one of the girls was murdered immediately, and the other was stabbed and died multiple hours later, the investigator would probably not call that a "twist", it would just be a tragic detail in the coroner's report. It would certainly raise questions about the timeline, motive, etc. but again, not much of a twist.

A twist is something that leads you in another direction than you were going. An example would be something like two teenage girls being brutally murdered but without any sign of sexual assault or apparent motive.

When was the "twist" comment made? Was it before or after the cellphone footage was released? It's possible the twist was simply the recording itself combined with the lack of identifying information and/or motive. That's an extremely unusual situation for any murder.