IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #35

[Floridian]

If it were committed by multiple young adults or teens, somebody would have talked by now. If not to police, then to friends/peers. Kids can’t keep something this big to themselves.
So then we are looking at one adult offender. If so, I fear that this is an experienced guy. Taking two victims at once is a ballsy, confident move, and it makes me think it’s not his first time with such a crime.
Maybe his first time with multiple victims, but not his first time overall. And that is scary. We are looking at a savvy, somewhat intelligent, experienced killer. I don’t mean to raise alarm, but I think this is what we are looking at. I bet any behavioral profile likely backs that up.


For investigators, the murders of four children, five years apart, are a little too similar. Now, cops in Indiana want to know if the so-called "Snapchat Killer" case is connected to an unsolved crime from 2012.


In the most recent case, Abby Williams and Libby German were killed while hiking in Delphi, Indiana. The teens posted pictures of their hike on Snapchat



Five years ago, Lyric Cook and her cousin Elizabeth Collins were kidnapped while riding their bikes on some nature trails in Evansdale, Iowa. Hunters found their bodies months later.


Their killer hasn't been found and police are trying to see if there's any evidence to link the two
​

 

[Bemused]

Just wanted to note that I have found it odd also that we are not hearing more on news from Delphi residents. It's almost a strange kind of hush. Very strange.

My opinion is no one wants to make the job of the investigators more difficult by blabbing to some slick TV talking heads & maybe saying something they shouldn't. Maybe it's a sense of circle the wagons. Maybe the LEOs have asked them not to talk at this time. Maybe some of them feel personally violated by the evil acts against those two girls & the glare of attention. If RL is involved, why would anyone defend the indefensible. This is a very small community so most of them probably know the families.

 

[tomvansac]

Does anyone know where is the "creek house" that PO referred to in one of the earliest videos?

 

[Bemused]

Does anyone know where is the "creek house" that PO referred to in one of the earliest videos?

I don't recall hearing about a creek house.

Someone earlier posted a really nice aerial image maybe in the previous thread. Let me see if I can find it & you can see if you see a creek and a house.

 

[mandy.maree]

I feel like he's wearing a hat like this https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...hVE6CYKHeKvCEE4yAEQMwhNKEkwSQ&iact=mrc&uact=8

Minus the fit and frilly sides. When I was a little girl, I kept ear aches allot and my mom made me wear a hat similar to that and it was booger green and it was my dads. I hated it. But, it didn't have fur, no frilly strings, and the ears weren't that long... The hat he has reminds me of that... From the very first time I saw the image, my thought hasn't changed. I don't see a hoodie. Or a cap. I see that hat in that link.... This is only my opinion and thoughts..

His eyes do look close but it looks like his nose is big... Like bubbly...he looks short..

I do see a hat slightly to the side and a hoodie myself.
But this makes sense. He has covered all the rest of himself up excessively, so why not the head and hair also as that hat in your link would do.
Probably has gloves on too. He went there well prepared. I believe the river also had a part in his plans to leave no trace.
This wasnt a spur of the moment thing imo. He's been waiting for the opportunity to do this crime.

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[DeDee]

Again - we are talking about the FBI, Homeland Security, the very best groups of people - in the world that are/have been working on this case! And they know that everyone is watching them. I'm sorry, maybe I'm blind, but I have total faith in the fact that these people are MUCH better at this than we are! And I don't think they are not giving this the absolute best they can (look at their faces at the first press conference!)

I understand that we want the brightest and the smartest serving in LE, FBI, ICE, HS; however, those occupations are not always the first on a college student's list of preferred professions due to the dangerous nature of the job, the salary and benefits. Personally, I support college ed requirement for all LE employees.**

Software Engineer for Google Average Salary $81,184 - $172,061
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Google,_Inc./Salary/Job/Software-Engineer

Police Officer positions do not require a college degree. Median Salary $49,297
Delphi, IN Police Officer salary $53,000
Detroit, MI median salary is $53,225
Rookie New York Cop salary is $41,975

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Police_or_Sheriff's_Patrol_Officer/Salary
https://www.glassdoor.com/Jobs/Delphi-Police-Department-Jobs-E205950.htm
http://work.chron.com/salary-rookie-cop-nypd-2215.html
http://www1.salary.com/MI/Detroit/police-officer-salary.html

** Cato Institute’s National Police Misconduct Reporting Project found that sexual misconduct is the second greatest of all civilian complaints nationwide against police officers, at 9.3 percent in 2010. The organization noted that 354 of the 618 officers under investigation for sexual offenses were accused of engaging in nonconsensual sexual acts, and just over half of the 354 cases involved minors.
http://www.newsweek.com/police-sexual-assault-rape-justice-258130

Some FBI positions do not require a college degree. Median Salary $43,000
http://www.criminaljusticeschoolinfo.com/fbi-agent-salary.html

Homeland Security requires a Bachelor's Degree. Median Salary (2015) $58,320
http://study.com/articles/Become_a_Homeland_Security_Officer_Step-by-Step_Career_Guide.html

 

[Bemused]

Does anyone know where is the "creek house" that PO referred to in one of the earliest videos?

I think it may be in here, thanks to skibaboo

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-*media-maps-amp-timelines

 

[NancyDrew007]

Finally about to crash for the day. Here's what I took from today's threads and my own sleuthing:

- I believe there is a killer and an accessory, and it is possible that RL is the accessory (IMO not by his choice).
- BG looks exactly like a younger RL, and although we cannot sleuth family, I imagine we could find a ringer in the mix.
- BG, moo, has intimate knowledge of the entire area, particularly paths from the bridge to RL's property. Our own sleuthers who visited the bridge had difficulty locating it even with GPS directions. I don't think a hiker or transient would have been able to pull it off.
- He needed to act fast once he chose the girls, the weather was nice enough on the 13th to suggest there would be other visitors to the park that afternoon.
- I think BG is local, but he didn't have a lot of choices as far as taking the girls somewhere else. I think he used one of RL's sheds/barns/basement/whatever.
- I half think BG is wearing RL's clothes on the bridge. Dad jeans, baggy jacket that looks too big, etc.
- I am on the fence about the timing of BG putting the girls out in the back of the property. I am leaning towards him keeping them locked up for most of the night. It makes me sick to think about it but I think if he just wanted to kill people, he could have just shot people on the bridge or in a gas station. The fact that he took the girls to a secluded location says to me he had other ideas.
- I feel like RL may have found out unintentionally about what BG was doing and was forced to help him after the fact.
- RL's interview bumblings could either be him trying to get LE's attention or maybe he is trying to divert attention away from himself or anyone around him by coming up with other possibilities.
- I think (and I pray) LE has a good idea who did this but they don't have the evidence they need to convict him/them. Hopefully the search at RL's property over the weekend will help.
- I thought it was very interesting that the prime time lady interviewer asked where RL's son and grandson were (not just where is his family) and even more interesting that the attorney said he didn't know and wouldn't tell even if he did.
- all of this is just my summary of my thoughts today.


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[slanda]

I am hoping to understand something and to learn about this site so that I can be a positive contributor. Am I wrong, or has there been a sweeping sentiment that no matter what develops, RL deserves sympathy? I do not understand why whenever someone puts forward a theory or observation, or a new way of looking at the evidence---while adhering to the TOS of this site completely---someone inevitably posts something saying, "well, I would do that" or "I have a ruddy face" or "how can you say that?". I mean, please....when people comment that he is an alcoholic...several people jump into action saying "maybe he just enjoys a beer" or "I would drink, too, if bodies were found on my property", or various other minimizations of the reality of this man's habitual substance abuse. I'm new here. This is the first case that I've been following. Is this typical ?

It's very common for disagreement when it's all conjecture. We can't even come to a consensus of what may or may not be in a picture we all can see.

The evidence, or lack thereof in this case isn't very objective to begin with, so, people are going to automatically hold opinions/beliefs that make the most sense to them until proven otherwise.

I personally said I'm Not ready to tar and feather the guy because I don't feel like there's not nearly evidence for me to do so; other people feel differently than I and that's OK, even though I don't agree, I'll try to present my reasoning and engage in a discussion about it.

If the time comes when he is tried and convicted, I will have no reservations damning him to the depths of hell for all eternity, but, I don't know how I could do that yet from the evidence we have at this time.

I personally am not married to the idea RL couldn't have done it (though, at this time, I think it is unlikely), I'm just waiting for more to pass my judgement. I don't see the problem in that? I may presume that many people just want the evidence to lead where it may and until we know anything for certain, maybe they too don't feel comfortable putting him through the wringer (generally speaking), yet. Im quite certain that if all roads lead to and through RL for the deaths of A+L, no one here will put up a fight about that, including myself.

Almost all theories and scenarios presented in every case here have some pushback and/ differing points of view. Not everyone will agree on everything all of the time. And some people enjoy being a contrarian. It's nothing to take personally, if you are. What may be clear to you looks muddy to someone else and vice versa.

 

[Etilema]

My opinion is no one wants to make the job of the investigators more difficult by blabbing to some slick TV talking heads & maybe saying something they shouldn't. Maybe it's a sense of circle the wagons. Maybe the LEOs have asked them not to talk at this time. Maybe some of them feel personally violated by the evil acts against those two girls & the glare of attention. If RL is involved, why would anyone defend the indefensible. This is a very small community so most of them probably know the families.

IMO it's more a matter of there not being any investigative journalists wanting to make their own jobs harder by going to Delphi and asking questions. The positive aspect of that is that we don't get the hurtful sideshow that disturbs victims so much; the obvious negative is that we don't get any information whatsoever. All JMO.


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[nowayinhell]

I don't believe RL is BG or has any connection to the case. I just don't see it in his demeanor or in his looks. Alcohol convictions don't make him a raging mad killer. I feel bad for the guy because there are so many that already have him convicted. Poor guys done for if any of you get on the jury pool. This is why there's so many innocents being put in jail because people are so quick to judge. I don't think he had anything to do with the crime, even after the fact. JMO

 

[mandy.maree]

You raised some interesting points there NancyDrew007

Perhaps RLs clothes WERE worn by the killer..sure would explain a lot with his current situation and why his house is being searched. His dna may have been found at the scene at that rate...

I just dont see why he would be keeping quiet if that were the case. May just be he believes he is being framed by LE.


So many things it could be.

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[Falling Down]

You raised some interesting points there NancyDrew007

Perhaps RLs clothes WERE worn by the killer..sure would explain a lot with his current situation and why his house is being searched. His dna may have been found at the scene at that rate...

I just dont see why he would be keeping quiet if that were the case. May just be he believes he is being framed by LE.


So many things it could be.

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The killer could have bought their disguise at Rural King or any number of other stores here in the Midwest.

 

[NancyDrew007]

You raised some interesting points there NancyDrew007

Perhaps RLs clothes WERE worn by the killer..sure would explain a lot with his current situation and why his house is being searched. His dna may have been found at the scene at that rate...

I just dont see why he would be keeping quiet if that were the case. May just be he believes he is being framed by LE.


So many things it could be.

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I keep hoping that's why the police brought him in, they don't want to raise BG's alarm bells. That just sounds like some thriller novel though. Thank you for reading my thoughts and responding. I really appreciate it! [emoji859]🏻*♀️


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[mandy.maree]

I keep hoping that's why the police brought him in, they don't want to raise BG's alarm bells. That just sounds like some thriller novel though. Thank you for reading my thoughts and responding. I really appreciate it! [emoji859]🏻*♀️


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Well its a theory I haven't seen yet amongst the 1000s !
Probably unlikely but you never know.
If someone close to him/working for him had access to his home..Its not improbable that they would take his coat!

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[azshadowwalker]

If it's him, unless he led a secret life of depravity, how did an educated and honorable, hardworking guy go from that to murdering two children? For me, a psycho stranger would be easier to reconcile in my head.

How do we know he is a "honorable, hardworking guy"? He has a rap sheet for putting other lives in danger on more than one occasion. Not very honorable, if you ask me.

In other cases I've lurked around, there was very little sympathy for hard core, drug using suspects. But many of us personally know someone who drinks a bit too much, but is otherwise harmless. So, it may be a bit difficult to make the leap from alcohol abuser...to murderer.

And I would call this view, if it's what is motivating people to give this guy a benefit that others don't get, completely incorrect and hypocritical. Alcohol use is linked to a lot of violent crime--rape, domestic violence, homicide (vehicular and otherwise). The fact that drunks get the benefit of the doubt is both unfortunate and wrong. I grew up around alcoholics. I spent my teens and very early 20s around users of street drugs. I put drunks right up there with cokeheads and tweakers for violence and shady behavior. Give me a junkie over a drunk any day of the week.

I would also suggest that people know a lot more current or former users of street drugs than they even suspect. I knew college professors, high-achieving college students, LEOs, mechanics, IT professionals, cosmetologists, and many other hardworking and educated people who were spending parts of their days shooting heroin or snorting coke and meth.

I just think these excuses for the kid glove treatment are shaky. They may be the motivation, but that speaks more to the biases people have than the actual behavior of drug users (and drinkers ARE drug users). If you would believe it of a heroin user, you should absolutely believe it of a drinker, as well. And I say all of this as someone who has no problem with people invoking their rights or refusing to talk to the police. I just have a major problem with the kind of biases your post refers to.

IMO, he's already benefited from being everyone's grandpa due to what seems to be a slap on the wrist for two -- or is it three? -- drunk driving convictions.

I completely agree. The only people I know who get away with this behavior have influence or skate by on other social privilege.

 

[mandy.maree]

Great post azshadowwalker. I grew up with alcoholics also and am well aware they can be very violent,downright bipolar and manipulative.
There are many things about RL that make him appear less than sweet and grandfatherly,definitely. He's no saint.
He has made mistakes that could well have cost lives with his intoxicated decisions judging by his record of recent years.
An alcoholic at any age could certainly snap and kill. I've had my own family turn on me for no reason whilst drunk.
The fact is..he doesn't look like BG or sound like the audio. That is why I am still thinking this is unfair and quite ridiculous that we can put his mug shot all over the web and accuse him of murder. That stuff cant be removed if he is found 100% innocent. His name is forever connected to the murder of two teenage girls.

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[kirkassoc]

Bridge Guy looks like he could have a Hapsburg chin..or at least a mild one. His nose, chin, and facial hair stand out to me. The overhang of nose and Hapsburg-ish chin are very prominent to my eyes.

He could have been someone they knew via family connections and he told them he'd give them a ride home. "Down the hill" could have even happened away from where their bodies were found and the bridge.

BINGO (for me). I didn't know it was called a Hapsburg chin, but I thought his chin protruded slightly. I noticed that the first time I saw the image. Thanks for explaining what I saw. :happydance:

 

[BunnyHop]

Great Big MOO here: both girls had various social media accounts. as i understand it, AW lived within a mile of this place. i believe that it is very possible someone had been watching her for some time. maybe they knew her, maybe they knew her parents, but i think they've been watching her for a while. fixated on her. waiting for the right time. perhaps waiting until she reached the preferred age. if they'd been tipped off by a comment she'd made about her plans for that day made on a social media site, they could have easily prepared for her and LGs arrival. i believe those girls were on the bridge together and there were two men who pinned them on the bridge from either side. by that i mean they easily could have entered the bridge from opposite ends, meeting the girls somewhere in the middle, leaving them nowhere to run. as i understand it, there is no cell phone service on the bridge so it's likely LGs snapchat post was actually uploaded after they came off the bridge. as i continue to listen to the audio it becomes more and more clear to me that the voice says "get down the hill", not simply "down the hill". i believe they knew these girls were coming. i believe AW was the target. and now i feel pretty sick.

Catching up.

This is an interesting theory IMO.

:bump:

 

[VTX88]

No, I don't think it's white. It is hard to see though. Anyway, I'd never seen or even heard this before, so just thought I'd post for the other poster who was asking about the cars under the bridge.

It's more clear here in the black and white photo, at least to me. I can make out the wheels on the car at least.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-7&p=13167881#post13167881

And the image that's zoomed in in this post:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-7&p=13167886#post13167886
http://i.imgur.com/qQWVJtk.jpg

And this one: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-7&p=13168197#post13168197

For the love of God everyone, the bridge is 60 feet high! Go look out your front door at the neighbors car parked 60 feet away. At 60 feet you could read the license plate!! If you're having to circle and draw arrows pointing at a car, you'd better be standing on the Empire State Building. Not standing 60 feet away!!