IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #37

[myzzy]

It's Friday and for two weeks In a row on Friday something has transpired, let's hope today a break is happening..


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[Eileen730]

Since the crime scene tape runs down to the water, instead of up towards the cemetery, it seems like the creek must come into play.

If they were drowned, why would he bring the bodies 50' inland? Why not just leave them 10' from the edge of the water?

Well what if the crime was committed on someone else's property there and the easiest way to move them was by water. Wanted to move them to a different property.
Just a hoight.

 

[Spellbound]

Many of the members cannot read theindychannel news because we don't have a subscription. It would be muchly appreciate if you could share some of the details.

this is strange, but I always use an ipad and do not have a subscription, but I can read the articles linked to indychannel. Have you tried lately? Another site that is subscription-only was kind enough to allow us to read about our girls for free; maybe indychannel changed their protocol, too?

ETA.... I see Canada's viewers may be the ones having the problem. Sorry.

 

[Hazelnutty]

Good Morning. Hoping for a few more suspects eliminated from suspect list & many more tips checked out today. Today is the day!

 

[guruagain]

Since the crime scene tape runs down to the water, instead of up towards the cemetery, it seems like the creek must come into play.

If they were drowned, why would he bring the bodies 50' inland? Why not just leave them 10' from the edge of the water?

Especially as it appears to be a very steep hill near where the team of divers are - (30.30 in video linked above)

 

[jenthern]

Since the crime scene tape runs down to the water, instead of up towards the cemetery, it seems like the creek must come into play.

If they were drowned, why would he bring the bodies 50' inland? Why not just leave them 10' from the edge of the water?

I don't think they were drowned, but maybe "cleaned" in the water? (or maybe not, I'm not hard set on that idea) ...... but ..... I think he would maybe have tried to bring them up into the wooded area to conceal them. I really don't know at this point, there are so many different ways this could have gone down.

 

[FreeRoad]

Great idea!

O/T slightly: As a novice here, I am trying to familiarize myself with "how and where" all things WS. I find the media/maps references posted at the top of each new Thread very helpful, and am extremely grateful to all of you that put the time in to collect and document that info. I am starting to conclude that because of the number of Threads/posts, even the Media Thread is becoming cumbersome, and has some duplication. Would it be possible to have the referenced posts organized by fact/question (example: "Is there DNA evidence?") and then collect all documentation/links that answer the question.

As I read it now, the Media link is somewhat chronological, as these Threads are (even with different "reading views" available) and is getting to be hard to look through. If I'm really missing the boat here, please enlighten me. I love learning new things

And, the irony of learning to sleuth WS is not lost on me

 

[jenthern]

IMO, it's standard procedure when children are involved. LE didn't get any autopsy results until Monday to even know IF there was a SA.

There are other ways besides autopsy results that would have led crime scene analysts to believe the girls had been sexually assaulted and sent them in that direction (looking at sex offenders.) IMO.

 

[Ashley95]

When they released the voice, I immediately thought it was someone who is a teacher or coach due to the tone of their voice and the way they sound like they are calmly in control. I <modsnip> Anyhow, I definitely think the teacher/coach angle is plausible for several reasons. 1. He sounded in control and like he was used to being in control and controlling people with his voice. 2. He would have been off of work and known there would be children out and about, mostly unsupervised because the rest of the world still had to work. 3. He may have overheard them talking about their plans to be at the bridge and had the entire weekend to plan. 4. It would have been easier to control them. And for those who say, "the girls would have said his name if they knew him" .... I don't think that's true. Just like he was able to control 2 girls at 1 time, it's quite possible he said to them immediately when he approached them "if you scream or say one word I will kill you." That would scare me into silence and I'm sure it would scare them too!

I think with so few teachers they would have been cleared by now. I think they found Ian Huntley very quick who killed two schoolgirls and was a caretaker.

I don't think it's possible to determine a job from three words.

Even if they knew his name they might have been tied up and gagged even at video recording time so unable to say a word.

I doubt it's sexually motivated or someone they knew IMO

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[layer]

Since the crime scene tape runs down to the water, instead of up towards the cemetery, it seems like the creek must come into play.

If they were drowned, why would he bring the bodies 50' inland? Why not just leave them 10' from the edge of the water?

I think people get a little confused on distances. Football players can run 40 yards in just over 4 seconds, that's 120 feet. Fifty feet is not far at all. If they were drowned, I expect they were dragged away from the creek in order to avoid immediate detection by searchers.

 

[antechinusRAWR]

i am completely aware of the studies regarding XYY, having read most of them. There are those who feel it is a myth, there are some who feel it may be significant...hence my including it in my initial post about murderers. The newspaper article you provided was from 1974.

I very rarely jump into conversations on WS & post multi-link replies but there are some claims in your last link, this one >

http://blogs.unimelb.edu.au/science...0/do-serial-killers-have-an-extra-chromosome/

that are 100% untrue & need to be corrected. The link is a Melbourne University (AUS) site, but it isn't a peer-reviewed scientific paper, it's just a student blog page & the blog writer's (lack of) expertise on the topic becomes very clear if you read their own replies below the blog.


More importantly, the writer barely touched on XYY in that piece & their only mention of it was a discussion of Richard Speck. For some reason he continues to be held up as proof of this theory despite the fact that gene studies conducted during his own trial proved he doesn't even have the XYY gene (testing was conducted because his attorney tried to use XYY in his defence). There's a link here written by Dr Chris Murgatroyd, lecturer in genetics at Manchester Metropolitan University (U.K), that discusses Speck's lack of XYY :

http://powerofthegene.com/joomla/index.php/chromosomes/x-y-y-syndrome

The XYY theory really hasn't been given credibility for many years & these days students are taught that there's no truth to it. Scientific American journalist John Horgan refers to the XYY theory as "lurid claims made decades ago"

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...r-gene-makes-me-mad-whether-i-have-it-or-not/


You will still find a few academic papers online discussing the possibility of an XYY connection, but the most recent are from the 90s & 00s. & I'm yet to see an example where the killer/sex offender in question didn't also have a confirmed history of abuse/deprivation & head injury.


Aside from some of these claims being completely incorrect, XYY & theories like it are an extremely contentious issue because they can lead to dangerously false beliefs about people with particular genetic makeups.

This is an example of XYY/violence theory that lead to a real life miscarriage of justice :

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/nov/06/ukcrime.helencarone

 

[expatCanada]

ITA, but after lurking/reading here for a long time, it seems like that's very standard with these cases. Same with bringing in the FBI or State help asap. JMO

There are other ways besides autopsy results that would have led crime scene analysts to believe the girls had been sexually assaulted and sent them in that direction (looking at sex offenders.) IMO.

 

[jenthern]

Don't think so. LE would have heard Abby or Libby say their name or something to the effect that they knew BG... which apparently did not happen since we had a nationwide manhunt for a person not known.

Justice, read the last few sentences of what you replied to.

 

[Eileen730]

I don't think they were drowned, but maybe "cleaned" in the water? (or maybe not, I'm not hard set on that idea) ...... but ..... I think he would maybe have tried to bring them up into the wooded area to conceal them. I really don't know at this point, there are so many different ways this could have gone down.

I was thinking if everything happened up where the bodies were found there would be signs of struggle . Like Mr L said it was pristine.
Makes no sense to me.
Imo they were on another property aND moved

 

[jenthern]

I was thinking if everything happened up where the bodies were found there would be signs of struggle . Like Mr L said it was pristine.
Makes no sense to me.
Imo they were on another property aND moved

I agree with that. I've never believed everything happened right where they were found. The thing is, every single situation I run through my head has pieces that don't fit. I think we'll all be shocked if we ever find out what truly happened.

 

[iten]

I get very confused in what journalists have said or implied and what LE have said.

Have they confirmed a confrontation took place prior to the video 100%?

And have they comfirmed the bodies were moved?

Or or is this all journalist speculation and people reading into the wrong things.

Thanks anyone...

As far as I am aware LE has not said anything about a confrontation occurring before the video or anything about the bodies being moved.

I have seen some posts online that suggest otherwise, but suspect that the poster/s have their wires crossed.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Regarding the crime scene tape going down to the creek: this is a screen cap from one of the interviews. The nearest tape is attached to the 3rd tree inward from the creek.

[video=youtube;4yNdRfD23p0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yNdRfD23p0[/video]

Thanks to the other member who posted the flyover, too.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

I think we're looking for a man who has a double life, and the other life might not be shady. In fact, it may be shiny, as we have seen with some sly serial murders (e.g.: BTK).

Eluding being captured seems to be like a full time job. I hope he can't rest but so far all his preparations seem to have served him well.

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

I very rarely jump into conversations on WS & post multi-link replies but there are some claims in your last link, this one >

http://blogs.unimelb.edu.au/science...0/do-serial-killers-have-an-extra-chromosome/

that are 100% untrue & need to be corrected. The link is a Melbourne University (AUS) site, but it isn't a peer-reviewed scientific paper, it's just a student blog page & the blog writer's (lack of) expertise on the topic becomes very clear if you read their own replies below the blog.


More importantly, the writer barely touched on XYY in that piece & their only mention of it was a discussion of Richard Speck. For some reason he continues to be held up as proof of this theory despite the fact that gene studies conducted during his own trial proved he doesn't even have the XYY gene (testing was conducted because his attorney tried to use XYY in his defence). There's a link here written by Dr Chris Murgatroyd, lecturer in genetics at Manchester Metropolitan University (U.K), that discusses Speck's lack of XYY :

http://powerofthegene.com/joomla/index.php/chromosomes/x-y-y-syndrome

The XYY theory really hasn't been given credibility for many years & these days students are taught that there's no truth to it. Scientific American journalist John Horgan refers to the XYY theory as "lurid claims made decades ago"

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...r-gene-makes-me-mad-whether-i-have-it-or-not/


You will still find a few academic papers online discussing the possibility of an XYY connection, but the most recent are from the 90s & 00s. & I'm yet to see an example where the killer/sex offender in question didn't also have a confirmed history of abuse/deprivation & head injury.


Aside from some of these claims being completely incorrect, XYY & theories like it are an extremely contentious issue because they can lead to dangerously false beliefs about people with particular genetic makeups.

This is an example of XYY/violence theory that lead to a real life miscarriage of justice :

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/nov/06/ukcrime.helencarone

Re: head injuries. Here is a short clip from this experts show mentioning it. I forget what percentage they say of killers they say have had head injuries but it definitely can play a role

https://www.investigationdiscovery....different-head-traumas-from-motorcycle-riding

 

[scandinavian girl]

When they released the voice, I immediately thought it was someone who is a teacher or coach due to the tone of their voice and the way they sound like they are calmly in control. I <modsnip> Anyhow, I definitely think the teacher/coach angle is plausible for several reasons. 1. He sounded in control and like he was used to being in control and controlling people with his voice. 2. He would have been off of work and known there would be children out and about, mostly unsupervised because the rest of the world still had to work. 3. He may have overheard them talking about their plans to be at the bridge and had the entire weekend to plan. 4. It would have been easier to control them. And for those who say, "the girls would have said his name if they knew him" .... I don't think that's true. Just like he was able to control 2 girls at 1 time, it's quite possible he said to them immediately when he approached them "if you scream or say one word I will kill you." That would scare me into silence and I'm sure it would scare them too!

BIB.. that was my first thought when I heard it, it sounded like a male version of my mother when saying no was not an option. Both my parents were teachers.