IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #4

[JJ007]

Hey. If you don't need mind shoot me the link or pic via direct message. I've done tons of work on social media.

 

[mocity]

I believe there is some confusion stemming from the differences in death date in the girls individual obits. Could be mistakes or just difference in the TOD ( time of death) on the individual death certificates. Hate to type this, but that could be just that the girls were there, but the perp didn't realize that he had left one still breathing.

Typically family/friends write the obit. My guess it is just a difference in interpretation by the family. Missing on one date and found on the other.

 

[klind55]

YES. If you have any reason to believe this person could be responsible please call it in.

Wow, please tell me you reported it. So many similarities!

 

[Falling Down]

That's why I questioned how quick in/out from the cemetery.

Here's why I agree:

Easier in/out, without being seen by anyone else. No need to park at the parking lot.

If the images were from a trail cam, and the guy used the bridge in both directions, they might have pics of him from behind.

Yet they don't. In the overlapped .gif further up in this thread, courtesy of vliam, the cropped image says "Indiana State Police" at the bottom, and is darker than the other image, perhaps for confrast. Why was it cropped? Also, I believe both images are zoomed ones from a selfie cam on a phone, which has a poor image quality vs. the main cam on a phone.

I maintain he passed them, from the cemetery side of the bridge, and his appearance and demeanor raised red flags with the girls. So the girl with fhe phone turned on her selfie cam, and made it look like she was just texting and whatnot, when she was recording the guy over her shoulder.

I think what really raised alarm was he got on the bridge, walked a short distance, rhen turned around. That alone would have freaked anyone out. It explains some of the poor image quality. The ISP techs not only cropped the one image (after zooming in), they had to orient it to match the other one, as the guy stepped over the planks.

My guess is they won't release the video until trial, if that happens. Probably too disturbing in nature. The two images could have come from a video taken mere minutes after 2:07 PM, when the SC upload happened.

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

BBM, I am not familiar with the family dynamics, were her parents in the picture somehow, it sounded to me like the grandparents raised her?

My understanding is she lived with her grandparents, but both her parents were involved and lived in Delphi.

*Correction, mom lives out of state.

She has a full sister and three half siblings, I believe all girls. I believe at least two, if not three, of the half siblings live out of state. Again, just my interpretation.

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[Bob Saccamano]

Typically family/friends write the obit. My guess it is just a difference in interpretation by the family. Missing on one date and found on the other.

My wife's father died in a motorcycle accident and the date of death on the obit was not accurate. It stated the day he was found and not the day he actually died.

Likely this is what you said- two different, grieving families writing different dates. At least, I hope. I'd hate to think there was chance that one could have been saved.

 

[mpnola]

I took a guess at what you were looking for and hope I'm on the right track. I denoted the walking trail with the white broken line and showed what appeared to be access points along the way with red arrows. The logan property is outlined in red. The bridge is yellow broken line. You can see the area from the helicopter video where they were on top of the walking bridges along Hoosier Heartland highway. Let me know if this wasn't what you were asking for-

Im still catching up, but this is so perfect!! Thank you! Yes, the helicopter flew and showed a random set of tire tracks down from that rectangle building in the toppish left corner of this map. Thank you for the visual. I am going to hope the police have questioned all those who would be there very well!

 

[No it's not]

Agree or possibly a hidden trail cam

JMO
When LE began to focus on this person more closely I think maybe they found some evidence of a struggle which could have made them really start to focus on him.

Maybe they found something that got them very concerned maybe on top of the bridge even.

I am guessing they are looking below the bridge too for anything that could have fallen off the side of the bridge or thrown off the bridge.

The photo of the person is ominous and what is very scary is if you were crossing the bridge and going toward the end and a person came onto the bridge as you were nearing the end then you were trapped. You could not turn and outrun them on that rickety bridge and you could not go past him without confrontation if that was his purpose.

Very scary situation and if he is responsible then it seems to me he may have planned this out. He may have been stalking the bridge for some time with the hopes that someone would come onto the bridge that he could attack.

I wonder how popular this bridge was for young people to go hang out near it.


"Since then, preliminary evidence has led investigators to suspect the man in the photo participated in the teens’ deaths, the state police said in a statement."

http://ktla.com/2017/02/19/suspect-identified-in-killing-of-indiana-girls-found-on-hiking-trail/

BBM

That's exactly the point. Why did the girls go there? The trail itself is only 1/4 of a mile long. Did they want to hike it? Did they hike often in the past? Do their classmates/friends like to hang out around the bridge? If yes, why?

Anything else going on in this area (drugs, alcohol, fun) unrelated to the girls? Did they witness something?

Why was the POI at the bridge? Was he by himself? It is illegal to cross that bridge. Did he cross it as a shortcut to go home? One home is less than 1/2 mile away from this bridge.

Are there actual signs declaring it illegal to cross the bridge? Would a stranger cross it, if he knew it's illegal?

https://www.indianalandmarks.org/endangered-property/monon-high-bridge/

 

[roseofsharon]

Sorry for the obsession with aerial maps, but the thing I've had the hardest time with regarding this case is the logistics-

I am interested in how the perp accessed and exited the area because I feel this speaks to planning and familiarity. I'm assuming he used a vehicle, so he had to park it somewhere. On a broad level, he could only park East or West of the bridge/trail and North or South of the river.

Initially, I felt the most likely place to park would be the SW corner of the cemetery in the wooded area. This makes sense because it provides for some cover, it is an area that isn't too alarming to park a car if someone happened upon it. It also requires the least amount of foot travel to the bridge and out of the area after the crime and is the main reason that I feel this would speak to planning as I would imagine he'd want to exit the area quickly after committing the crime. This positioning of a vehicle would render it unnecessary for him to cross the bridge at all, but doesn't mean that he wouldn't do so to blend in or to get in a position that he felt he could best intercept them. It could also be a situation of random opportunity, but that would raise different questions. At this point, I feel this position of a vehicle to be one of the more likely ones, mainly because I feel he took them to where he did for some reason and part of that would have to do with being able to escape unnoticed. This position would mean he would have the least likelihood of coming into contact with a witness after the crime because it wouldn't require him to cross the trail or get near the bridge before leaving.

The 2nd most likely position to park a car is one that I didn't notice at first until I zoomed in. There is a driveway off of W 300N that intersects the monon bridge trail. I've shaded it in white. Looking closer, it crosses the trail and appears large enough for a vehicle. It goes roughly parallel to the monon trail down toward the river. I remember one of the witnesses interviewed that saw a man, but not the girls, mentioned that she did not take the trail to the right. At first I assumed that meant the trail that intersected the bridge trail on the south end of the bridge, but it could actually be the shaded trail on the North side of the Creek. If one were walking toward the bridge, it would be on the right. It does appear to me that someone could have driven a car down there, but it would be a little more conspicuous if a witness were to happen upon it. This position would also require the perp to cross the trail after the crime to get back to his car and pull out of the area where it is possible to encounter witnesses. Again, if it were more of an opportunistic situation, this might not have been planned for or perhaps would speak to the level of sophistication based upon the level of risk taken.

There are also several areas(blue arrows) South of the bridge that it appears a vehicle could have been placed. These would indicate to me less sophistication or planning because it means he'd have to risk crossing the bridge after the crime and risk being seen. It would also have him parked on a drive that serves a private residence which would make a vehicle stand out, even risk being called in as a trespasser. This would, however, require him to cross the bridge twice unless he crossed the creek itself and in 40 degree weather and seeing the depth of it in most places, I doubt this.

I'd like to hear some others' thoughts on this. The fact that there is no description of a vehicle of interest leads me to believe that he either didn't use one which I find unlikely or that he didn't park in a spot that anyone else came across while his vehicle would have been there. This rules out a few of the more common areas, because any vehicle seen by a witness has been checked into by law-enforcement and I'd bet if there was a vehicle that couldn't be identified, then I feel they may have released info to the public to try to locate it. Back to work... More maps-

I thought he may have parked on a street in the town not far from the trail and walked. He may have carried the coat and hat and then removed them again to walk back to his vehicle. Just a thought.

 

[Eileen730]

I wonder if posted tthis on the FB page
Maybe it might help the the video r images
They have.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nasa-helping-in-search-for-girl/

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

According to what I have read regarding this case, they were dropped off at approx. 1-1:30 pm. They were to be picked up at 3-3:30 (IF whomever was to pick them up arrived on time). They were reported missing at 5:30 pm. The photo (if the times are correct) was taken at 2:07 pm. That would only give the perpetrator a very small window of opportunity to do what he/they did

One thing I've learnt is that people often don't realise that crimes of this nature (I'm going with sexual, not completely caught up here) take minutes; there's been at least two on here where the victim was seen being snatched and was still raped and murdered before anyone caught up. An hour would be more than enough, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if both girls were dead before they were even missed.

 

[rpgman]

Wow, please tell me you reported it. So many similarities!

it was reported

 

[ninij9]

I completely agree! When my son was in Marine boot camp pictures were posted by other mom's there for their child's graduation (seeing other platoons marching, etc) or the USMC site. Granted, yes, they all looked very similar but a Mom KNOWS her son right? I'd blow those suckers up so big the face had little definition and I was convinced, "there's my boy!". I saved these photos. When my son came home I showed him...not only was it not him, it wasn't even his platoon!!!! Your mind can really play tricks on you. I wish so badly this picture circulating was more clear. I think it's best to look at not blown up. There's more definition for sure. Great work though sleuthers.....this case is horrific!

Great point. I also prefer the resolution in the "not blown up" (terminology?) Pix. He does look youngish, but I'm going for 30s. I'm seeing fullish face (hard though as he is looking down to watch his step). I don't feel that anything can be gleaned by posture because walking in that bridge is hard and you'd be all tense trying to step over gaps. Jmo. Great work going on here though. Earlier someone mentioned SP and I thought of the MANY images we have in the Missy Beavers thread and still no identity.[emoji17] however, that POI was heavily disguised and this one is not. I still think this is a local, but is dressed so generically, and is so common looking and out of focus. Therein lies the rub. Also, someone may indeed have ID'd this guy, but doesn't want to turn in a loved one.

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[No it's not]

Sorry for the obsession with aerial maps, but the thing I've had the hardest time with regarding this case is the logistics-

I am interested in how the perp accessed and exited the area because I feel this speaks to planning and familiarity. I'm assuming he used a vehicle, so he had to park it somewhere. On a broad level, he could only park East or West of the bridge/trail and North or South of the river.

Initially, I felt the most likely place to park would be the SW corner of the cemetery in the wooded area. This makes sense because it provides for some cover, it is an area that isn't too alarming to park a car if someone happened upon it. It also requires the least amount of foot travel to the bridge and out of the area after the crime and is the main reason that I feel this would speak to planning as I would imagine he'd want to exit the area quickly after committing the crime. This positioning of a vehicle would render it unnecessary for him to cross the bridge at all, but doesn't mean that he wouldn't do so to blend in or to get in a position that he felt he could best intercept them. It could also be a situation of random opportunity, but that would raise different questions. At this point, I feel this position of a vehicle to be one of the more likely ones, mainly because I feel he took them to where he did for some reason and part of that would have to do with being able to escape unnoticed. This position would mean he would have the least likelihood of coming into contact with a witness after the crime because it wouldn't require him to cross the trail or get near the bridge before leaving.

The 2nd most likely position to park a car is one that I didn't notice at first until I zoomed in. There is a driveway off of W 300N that intersects the monon bridge trail. I've shaded it in white. Looking closer, it crosses the trail and appears large enough for a vehicle. It goes roughly parallel to the monon trail down toward the river. I remember one of the witnesses interviewed that saw a man, but not the girls, mentioned that she did not take the trail to the right. At first I assumed that meant the trail that intersected the bridge trail on the south end of the bridge, but it could actually be the shaded trail on the North side of the Creek. If one were walking toward the bridge, it would be on the right. It does appear to me that someone could have driven a car down there, but it would be a little more conspicuous if a witness were to happen upon it. This position would also require the perp to cross the trail after the crime to get back to his car and pull out of the area where it is possible to encounter witnesses. Again, if it were more of an opportunistic situation, this might not have been planned for or perhaps would speak to the level of sophistication based upon the level of risk taken.

There are also several areas(blue arrows) South of the bridge that it appears a vehicle could have been placed. These would indicate to me less sophistication or planning because it means he'd have to risk crossing the bridge after the crime and risk being seen. It would also have him parked on a drive that serves a private residence which would make a vehicle stand out, even risk being called in as a trespasser. This would, however, require him to cross the bridge twice unless he crossed the creek itself and in 40 degree weather and seeing the depth of it in most places, I doubt this.

I'd like to hear some others' thoughts on this. The fact that there is no description of a vehicle of interest leads me to believe that he either didn't use one which I find unlikely or that he didn't park in a spot that anyone else came across while his vehicle would have been there. This rules out a few of the more common areas, because any vehicle seen by a witness has been checked into by law-enforcement and I'd bet if there was a vehicle that couldn't be identified, then I feel they may have released info to the public to try to locate it. Back to work... More maps-

He could have used a motorcycle.

-Nin

 

[AmericanGraffiti]

Good post. Such a short time frame for everything to happen in. Also while the area is remote, the chances of passersby seems somewhat common. No?

According to what I have read regarding this case, they were dropped off at approx. 1-1:30 pm. They were to be picked up at 3-3:30 (IF whomever was to pick them up arrived on time). They were reported missing at 5:30 pm. The photo (if the times are correct) was taken at 2:07 pm. That would only give the perpetrator a very small window of opportunity to do what he/they did (2:07 until 3-3:30. I say 3:30 because the fact they didn't show up to be picked up says they were already at the crime scene, IMHO). Another thing that puzzles me is what the news reported about the crime scene (it was "unusual"). Also, they mentioned finding them beneath "two hills." Were they not together when they were found? Was one killed first and then the other and located close together but not next to each other? One other thing I would like to mention is, the first time I saw the POI photo, I thought he had a small "goatee." Also, I believe he is an older man because of the way his jeans fit (at least 45 or older). These are just thoughts I have had while hoping and praying this monster is caught.

 

[ianthe]

Oh my goodness. I tried to catch up, you guys, I did. I tried to catch up for so long that I fell asleep 80 pages in while reading the last thread. I start reading this one, leave for a short while, and come back to 20 more pages. :gaah:

Is there anything of note in this thread, other than our POI is now a suspect?

It's probably been mentioned already but anyone notice how they believe he "participated" in the murders? How long before they tell us how many sets of footprints...

 

[ninij9]

I'm on Tapatalk and can't reply to anyone's posts today. Anyone else having this problem?

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[No it's not]

Did they find the girls possibly buried..? That could explain, why they may have been overlooked during the first search. Just saying.

-Nin

 

[kittymittons]

I'm on Tapatalk and can't reply to anyone's posts today. Anyone else having this problem?

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There is an update. That might fix your issue.

 

[mpnola]

In the helicopter video, around the three minute mark. The long "circus tent" shaped building with multiple rail sidings next to it. It is a bulk material handling facility owned by The Andersons of Maumee Ohio. I recognized the sign. It is used to store bulk material like fertilizer (the Andersons are huge into fertilizer and rail/barge shipping).

Stiiillll catching up, but thank you so much for your information and links. They are very helpful