IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #4

[Momma2cam]

In regards to the house that was searched- Is it just rumor that the homeowners were cleared in that search? I thought I read the the prosecutor urged for people to stop harassing them as they were cleared. This article references they are back to square one and no evidence was found at the home.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4236206/amp/Grandfather-one-murdered-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html

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Answered my own question. Https://fox59.com/2017/02/20/prosec...ice-search-for-suspect-linked-to-teens-deaths

Eta: corrected link

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[Coldpizza]

I think they were both originally reported as 13.

Thank you, I've corrected the title.

 

[mbison]

Ok so I'm new never been here until this case so as people mentioned this was similar to lyric and Elizabeth the 2 cousins I read a little bit but didn't think anything.

But now I'm either going crazy or just might be something here.

The guy was a sailor has a thing for water maybe, from his only pics on Facebook that you can view... Historical bridges including him wearing almost identical clothing on the Manon bridge which he knows and post stats about under the pic.


But I just find it crazy people were originally saying the two cousins case was similar and in a crazy way this could all make sense.

The other 14 yo girl missing Breanne voils? I was just curious and searched her name and bridge and what do you know also missing from a place with a historic bridge. Highland park

I've been up for awhile so all this might come off as rambling.

But what's the odds of this guy being on the bridge (Manon) knowledgeable about its surroundings but lives far enough away nobody can pin point who he is. And not only just being on the bridge but having blue jeans and blue hoody with a camouflage hat? Hands in pockets in most pics. Almost identical body composition.

Also appears he lives in Waterloo Indiana.

Anybody that wants to see profile just send me a message.

What is the Manon bridge?

 

[deugirtni]

A kind member enlightened me as to why it was said that the two girls are known to have died on different days. The obituaries of the girls each show a different date of death. I'm proposing that the families may have chosen different dates, one choosing the date on which the girls went missing and the other choosing the date on which the girls were found.

Liberty "Libby" German 14, of Delphi, went to be with the Lord on February 13, 2017.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/jconline/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=184160551
==================================
Abigail J. "Abby" Williams 13, of Delphi, died Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2017.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/jconline/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=184160552

Autopsies were performed Feb 15th:
"Autopsies have been scheduled for 8 a.m. Wednesday, according to police."
http://fox59.com/2017/02/14/officials-give-update-on-two-missing-carroll-county-teens/

The funeral arrangements were published February 16th:
"Funeral arrangements set for Delphi teens
Posted 6:42 PM, February 16, 2017, by FOX59 Web, Updated at 03:41PM, February 17, 2017"
http://fox59.com/2017/02/16/funeral-arrangements-set-for-14-year-old-delphi-teen/

Not sure if the autopsy results would have established such a precise TOD so quickly, by sometime the following day when the funeral arrangements were published? Their last SM post was around 2pm on the 13th, and their bodies were discovered a little earlier than that on the 14th, so we know they were killed within that (approximately) 22 hour period. Personally, I can't see the killer killing one girl and leaving the other alive for several more hours, but that is just my opinion. I think it is more likely that each family, during their own private funeral arranging, chose the DOD as either the missing date or the found date. Thoughts?

 

[moonbunnyk]

A kind member enlightened me as to why it was said that the two girls are known to have died on different days. The obituaries of the girls each show a different date of death. I'm proposing that the families may have chosen different dates, one choosing the date on which the girls went missing and the other choosing the date on which the girls were found.

Liberty "Libby" German 14, of Delphi, went to be with the Lord on February 13, 2017.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/jconline/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=184160551
==================================
Abigail J. "Abby" Williams 13, of Delphi, died Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2017.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/jconline/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=184160552

Autopsies were performed Feb 15th:
"Autopsies have been scheduled for 8 a.m. Wednesday, according to police."
http://fox59.com/2017/02/14/officials-give-update-on-two-missing-carroll-county-teens/

The funeral arrangements were published February 16th:
"Funeral arrangements set for Delphi teens
Posted 6:42 PM, February 16, 2017, by FOX59 Web, Updated at 03:41PM, February 17, 2017"
http://fox59.com/2017/02/16/funeral-arrangements-set-for-14-year-old-delphi-teen/

Not sure if the autopsy results would have established such a precise TOD so quickly, by sometime the following day when the funeral arrangements were published? Their last SM post was around 2pm on the 13th, and their bodies were discovered a little earlier than that on the 14th, so we know they were killed within that (approximately) 22 hour period. Personally, I can't see the killer killing one girl and leaving the other alive for several more hours, but that is just my opinion. I think it is more likely that each family, during their own private funeral arranging, chose the DOD as either the missing date or the found date. Thoughts?

I'm not sure. TOD would be vital to the investigation and figuring out exactly what happened. ME's can usually get the time pinpointed give/take a few hours based on decomp. The real question, I think, is if they would allow this information to be public based on what it means for the investigation. If so it may have been out of respect for the girls and their families, and that may be the reason they're not explaining it any further. I saw a blip where a reporter tried to ask that exact question and they ignored it. I'll try to find it.


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[llake]

Can you send me a link to the profile? Thanks!!

Ok so I'm new never been here until this case so as people mentioned this was similar to lyric and Elizabeth the 2 cousins I read a little bit but didn't think anything.

But now I'm either going crazy or just might be something here.

The guy was a sailor has a thing for water maybe, from his only pics on Facebook that you can view... Historical bridges including him wearing almost identical clothing on the Manon bridge which he knows and post stats about under the pic.


But I just find it crazy people were originally saying the two cousins case was similar and in a crazy way this could all make sense.

The other 14 yo girl missing Breanne voils? I was just curious and searched her name and bridge and what do you know also missing from a place with a historic bridge. Highland park

I've been up for awhile so all this might come off as rambling.

But what's the odds of this guy being on the bridge (Manon) knowledgeable about its surroundings but lives far enough away nobody can pin point who he is. And not only just being on the bridge but having blue jeans and blue hoody with a camouflage hat? Hands in pockets in most pics. Almost identical body composition.

Also appears he lives in Waterloo Indiana.

Anybody that wants to see profile just send me a message.

 

[atroyer]

What is the Manon bridge?

It is actually Monon. It was a railway built in 1847 I think, and parts of it has been converted into hiking areas throughout parts of Indiana.

 

[TTF14]

Thank you, I've corrected the title.

Is it also possible to reword the headline on the ticker at the top? It's confusing a lot of people.

 

[dizzigirl1]

I found this link when i was wandering the internet because in my ignorance, I thought a medical examiner would determine/estimate the date/time of death based on lividity, temp etc. If this is the most up to date handbook below, when an examiner is in doubt, it suggests the use of the "found" date. I have seen people speak about choosing a date for their loved one. When my husband passed away, that was not an option for me. We had to show proof to have anything published over here. So i hope this attached bit can help anyone interested.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_me.pdf

 

[Eastonwatson]

It is actually Monon. It was a railway built in 1847 I think, and parts of it has been converted into hiking areas throughout parts of Indiana.

Thanks for correcting.

 

[skibaboo]

(Ok, it's the middle of the night, I've had tech issues maybe a storm is moving in anyway, trying to read yalls posts just wanted to say it's been a long time since I've felt a pang in my solar plexus this bad, meaning, I'm trying to sleep and I am literally having trouble breathing I'm so concerned, get the violins ou :violins: not about me here, I'm just saying Im feeling a kick right below my ribcage, maybe that's my heart and it's dropped like my *advertiser censored*...anyway, this shots for real here, this whole situation.

Eta: it might get worse before it gets better.

Last time I had this feeling it was right before 9 eleven.Eta:

Skis what's your anxiety forum again. I think it's anxiety-central.Com , Dear god,


Eta: How LE compartmentalizes and has to do their jobs....this is why I'm not officially LE.

Marg you're a gem but you take care of yourself! Invest in some gin gins, sounds like you got bad gas

fwiw I was pretty much the same, lurked here until 4am, went to bed, couldn't sleep. Heart pounding in ears, thudding in chest, couldn't breathe. (Too much coffee and adrenaline and not enough food) I get it a lot with my gerd so I laid there and tried to relax everything and eventually I felt a rattle from the pits of hell and I could breathe again.

(and yes that's right, AC)

I had the strangest dreams too, which I cannot remember anything about now.

Off to catch up with the rest of the thread, kicking myself I didn't do a case map, idk why I figured we wouldn't need one?!

 

[Tulessa]

I'm just wondering if this POI works for the Railroad? I can't get unstuck from that!

 

[TravelingBug]

I'm not sure. TOD would be vital to the investigation and figuring out exactly what happened. ME's can usually get the time pinpointed give/take a few hours based on decomp. The real question, I think, is if they would allow this information to be public based on what it means for the investigation. If so it may have been out of respect for the girls and their families, and that may be the reason they're not explaining it any further. I saw a blip where a reporter tried to ask that exact question and they ignored it. I'll try to find it.


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Exactly.

We've had cases where it's been months (and months and months) before we've heard anything definitive about TOD.

Yet (as in this case) have had things on an obit making people assume in case discussions that the family knew something TOD related that the public didn't because of a date not being what was expected for one reason or another.

When in many cases, it turned out what was 'run' early on in the obits was simply what a particular family member or even funeral home went with putting in print vs anything that was truly fact confirmed by investigators at that point.

Because while investigators may have it established, this early on (relatively speaking) in a case, it's not at all unusual that the public wouldn't be told something very definitive, and certainly not unheard of that the family may not even know for sure, yet obviously necessarily moves forward with an obituary, putting a date on program for a memorial service, etc.

Given that sometimes funeral homes or others (or just people close to the family) put together the early obituaries, regardless of rumors floating around, it's entirely possible - like others have suggested - one instinctively went with when the girls went missing, whereas another when their bodies were found, and it's likely there isn't 'confirmed' information tied to those dates.

Because as you said, it's likely investigators may not want that information out for one reason or another yet, especially with the suspect still not in custody.

 

[TTF14]

I'm getting confused, someone please refresh my memory. Was the picture released before or after the girls were found?

After.

 

[Tgrl]

Good morning, it's my first time here- Grateful for this site.
I've been following this case since the girls went missing. Apologies if my question has already been addressed- but in the photo of the (now) suspect- in the majority of versions I've seen, it appears there's a blue rectangular carrying case type thing, like a very small too case is the only way I can explain it...in front of left thing down to about knee level.....has anyone noticed, or discussed this, please?

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Good morning, it's my first time here- Grateful for this site.
I've been following this case since the girls went missing. Apologies if my question has already been addressed- but in the photo of the (now) suspect- in the majority of versions I've seen, it appears there's a blue rectangular carrying case type thing, like a very small too case is the only way I can explain it...in front of left thing down to about knee level.....has anyone noticed, or discussed this, please?

Yes been discussed. Someone posted a picture of a possible implement holder. And welcome.
Edit to add I am assuming you are referring to underneath his jeans.

 

[chewymolasses]

This could of already been answered, but have they done a area wide cell phone tower ping search? I find it hard to believe the perp wouldnt have a phone with him.

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[tlorik]

The girl's story was on CBS This Morning about 7:15 Central time this morning. No more information than we already know. Marking my spot.

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

Hello, all.

Longtime lurker - posted here about 7 years ago with the Meredith Emerson case - I don't have the same e-mail address anymore so I was unsuccessful at recovering my old login! The group here also rallied when a former college teammate of mine went missing (later turned across the country okay!). This is a wonderful community.

Anyways, I didn't really notice this until viewing this thread earlier on my smartphone (it's easier to notice some of the stuff in the 'Guy on Bridge' photo if you're doing so from a phone - maybe because that's potentially how it was captured?). Had to boot up the computer to show the thread what I saw on my phone. I did read others mention a potential firearm, but it stuck out to me as clear as day - in fact it looks quite obvious. I've (forgive the terrible MS Paint skills) mocked up where I'm seeing a firearm. If it is a firearm, it looks like a larger variation (potentially 1911/.45 variant).

Anyways, wanted to get the groups thoughts. May be helpful if anyone had archived scanner footage (if available) of any potential reports of shots fired around the time they were noted as being missing.

Forgive my content here if I'm reposting a concept that's been specifically outlined this way.

Wouldn't you put a gun in your pocket the OTHER way? Otherwise you're grabbing the butt (butte?) instead of the handle when you pull it out.

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[Robert Lindsay]

I'm just wondering if this POI works for the Railroad? I can't get unstuck from that!

I believe he is in the Navy. His wife says he is a sailor and he has some Navy related stuff among his likes.