IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #43

[Bird of Paradise]

The hyperfocus on RL is somewhat understandable since he's really the only person LE has mentioned by name, thereby he's really the only person that Websleuths TOS allows us to sleuth.

THAT SAID, I just keep reminding myself: Family, friends, neighbors, community members of these girls (and of RL) are probably reading these threads. I suggest we put down the pitchforks and torches regarding RL and be very careful about not accusing people of crimes they have not been charged with. lease:

My heart aches for all of them.

For context, I'll repost the MSM report I shared in the prior thread:

–––––––

LE has issued "approximately 70 search warrants and subpoenas ..." in this case.
(quote source: March 13 Fox 59 news report: http://fox59.com/2017/03/13/police-c...-investigation)

–––––––

RL was only one of the people served.

Plus, I strongly believe we're just bored and chasing our tails as we speculate as to why RL remains in custody and his truck was impounded.

I've learned a limited amount about DUI law during my experience in the journalism business, and in the few law courses I've taken, and working with attorneys and helping an ex through law school ... and, heck, I also learned from close family (and from myself becoming a victim to a man) who repeatedly violated felony and/or "third-strike DUI rules.

I doubt Indiana law is substantially different than most states when it comes to felony DUI and repeat probation violation. IMHO.

What I'm getting at is RL's being in jail and his car being impounded does not substantiate in any way RL's guilt or innocence in the related murder case. Also, none of it proves or disproves RL is BG. IMHO, none of it is relevant to the murder case. Here's why:

1. Impounding RL's truck: That's not uncommon when people frequently violate terms of DUI probation. It's very likely it's not related to the murders of Libby and Abby, in my most humble and marginally educated opinion. And it happens.

2. Holding RL in jail. This also is common with frequent violators of felony DUI (and/or so-called "third-strike") probation conditions. They're immediately jailed and held without bail. The time they're in jail while waiting on court proceedings is counted as "time served" if the court decides to revoke his probation. This is accepted practice.
If I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected. :loveyou:

Patience, folks. Justice is coming, imo. I can feel it.

Thanks.

Bolded in color by me.

Best post of sound thinking I've read.

 

[Bently]

Maybe it's because it became apparent there was an attack on the bridge.

Han, the post was saying that FBI was there the night they were missing. This opinion you posted is basing on after found.

Two different things.

 

[michiganmod]

Was this directed at me? What exactly do you think I insinuated? I simply was clarifying which pizza king he was at for someone.

Floridian * Im just a simple gal
It's not him.Stop INSINUATING

Originally Posted by michiganmod In answer to was this the Pizza King that did the fundraiser. It was not- it was Americus Pizza King just outside of town that RL had an alcoholic drink on Mon Feb 27.

The in town Delphi Pizza King had the fundraiser on Fri Feb 24 and the link to that is http://fox59.com/2017/02/24/pizza-ki...-delphi-teens/ and they sold 575 pizzas and raised $9419 for the girls families who asked that the proceeds be used towards scholarship funds in the girls names.

 

[Spiritecho]

I am going to go pull some weeds! I have never insinuated RL did it, never accused him..AFAIK I have asked questions, wondered about things and the like...isn't that the purpose of these threads.. I apologize if I have insinuated or accused, as I am still on the fence about it all. I maybe battling major health issues but I'm not dumb. :gaah:

 

[ashleybruemleve]

In answer to was this the Pizza King that did the fundraiser. It was not- it was Americus Pizza King just outside of town that RL had an alcoholic drink on Mon Feb 27.

The in town Delphi Pizza King had the fundraiser on Fri Feb 24 and the link to that is http://fox59.com/2017/02/24/pizza-k...raiser-for-families-of-murdered-delphi-teens/ and they sold 575 pizzas and raised $9419 for the girls families who asked that the proceeds be used towards scholarship funds in the girls names.

Sorry, copy/paste since I didn't know how to bring this over from the previous nights thread----
ashleybruemleve

Registered User

Join DateFeb 2017Posts35​

I would be interested to know if this is the SAME Pizza Place that was hosting the fundraiser in honor of Libby and Abby?? There was a news segment (sorry no link) that showed the business hosting a benefit dor the families.

Many perps have been known to insert themselves into the investigations, memorials, celebrations of life, etc. of their victims...

I also find it strange RL was openly drinking in public when I assume he knew that was a definite PV...

Something just clicked with me when I read on the PV Document that RL had been confirmed drinking at a pizza place...

As always, JMOO



​

Thank you SO MUCH for providing this info! I appreciate it! [emoji4]

It would have definitely pointed to another "coincidence" if not...I am glad that can be RULED OUT [emoji106] [emoji4]

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[observation]

I was away most of the night last night and by the time I got home the thread was shut.

Very interested in the Probation violation docs. Seems to me that our good people in LE were actively tailing Mr RL. I don't think it's just because the girls were found on his property. I think they couldn't ignore some things and off they went.

I ask myself, why would LE waste precious resources during the biggest investigation their county has ever seen, to harrass and catch an old man breaking his probation?

Because he most definitely is on the short list.

Ask yourself, why would LE risk an old man's health and reputation putting him in the spotlight like that? THEY HAD TO KNOW THE RUMORS IT WOULD CAUSE. Then the PROBABLE CAUSE SW in a homicide. HUGE stuff. They aren't stupid, we at Websleuths are by far not the only people connecting dots and making connections.

Today I feel a bit better about putting my Hat Roast back in my freezer because I don't think I'm eating it any time soon.
I'm keeping it though, just in case.

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Addressing the portion BBM above. Yes, two young girls were killed but there are other crimes and offenses that need to be addressed by LE whether it's related or not, it became clear to LE he broke the law. I have no idea if RL is guilty of a double murder or not but he clearly is guilty of repeatedly driving under the influence.
I remember early on LE stated that the perp of this crime might be changing their behavior. Perhaps RL was in AA and quit drinking for a time than gets caught out drinking once again.
This case makes my HR and BP boil.
I'm going for a run and I hope all of you sleuthers take some time away from the case to breath. It's a lot of intensity so balance that out.
Justice is around the bend.




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[Momma2cam]

Read the rules. You can't accuse him.. Rules are for everyone, and allot of speculating it's him and insinuating.. It's not fair until you have proof, it's a ongoing investigation and the LE does not need anybody' insinuating it's someone. They have enough without others accusing RL.

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To be fair, a probable cause search warrant specifically in regards to the murders was issued on his property and home shortly after he was arrested for an unrelated probation violation. LE has not clarified further since stating they are looking to clear him or make him more of a suspect than originally thought. There were other search warrants and LE promptly stated the individuals in the homes were not suspects in the murders period. They have said RL is not a suspect "at this time" and that he is not being charged related to the murders "at this time."

LE has also referenced 50+ persons of interest, which gives me much more pause. It seems the majority also do not see RL and BG as the same person. Regardless, though, it seems to be within rules (per Tricia) to sleuthe him given the search warrant and statements by LE.

It seems that the longer time goes on without additional information or clarity, the conversations go in circles and grow legs as they go around. I've chosen to check in less often for that reason but certainly am not naive enough to assume RL has zero involvement- until we hear otherwise, that is.

Jmo.

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[Bird of Paradise]

Or thinking about LE saying they were making progress, quietly..

Something suspicious was found at the transfer station. Something connected to the girls, or BG? Maybe some evidence that was fast tracked. Then LE find out RL was at the transfer station on the 13th. *thinking out loud*

BBM -- was the transfer station actually searched? (Geez I'm getting all confused about locations now)

 

[Imvp2]

Maybe it's because it became apparent there was an attack on the bridge.

I think it may be because certain elements of the situation at the time, were similar to current and past serial crimes they were investigating.....then a signature of sorts left at the scene resulted in the increase in FBI, billboards, backpack and hitchhiker questions

 

[Tricia]

Alrighty then.

We have already had to remove a number of posts this morning for various reasons.

Here is a short reminder:

*Do not tell others how to post

*Do not be rude

*Do not be snarky

*If this continues we will have to shut down the thread.


Thank you,

Tricia

 

[ninij9]

Read the rules. You can't accuse him.. Rules are for everyone, and allot of speculating it's him and insinuating.. It's not fair until you have proof, it's a ongoing investigation and the LE does not need anybody' insinuating it's someone. They have enough without others accusing RL.

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Read the first page of every thread. When RL was served a Probable Cause Doc in A HOMICIDE investigation, Our wonderful Boss Lady Tricia herself posted instructions regarding being able to sleuth the Property owner based upon what has been put out there. No sleuthing of his family friends or dog though.

I am seriously getting an aneurism whenever I see perps that didn't read this addendum to the rules go all high and mighty on the GOOD sleuthing ideas of others.
I
Haver theory, let them have their theory.

In 42 threads so far, any rumors, false accusing and mean spiritedness has been faithfully removed by our dream team of mods.

Adios.

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[ninij9]

I believe the girls lives were ended like my sister's with a knife attack. This would of been silent and rendered them unable to scream. I am sorry but I believe all other speculation of acid etc to be wrong. I was told that my sister's voice could only come out as a whisper. The neighbor in the house next door to where he took her told me he was sorry but he did not hear anything and my sister was tortured...

There are wounds that cause this...

Moo says the cow because???


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Every time you share bits of your story I want to hug you.[emoji176]

I agree that acid is unlikely. Good for that poster for thinking outside the box though.

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[EuTuCroquet?]

I think you might have just nailed a couple of things here! I agree he probably recycled and dumped his trash regularly.

I think he did a lot of things regularly, and is probably like many independent, strong-willed and capable men his age. He doesn't want or need to rely on anyone else to do what he's physically and mentally able to do. It's pride. IMHO. My guess is his determination and single-mindedness is a great asset — and possibly his greatest liability. :notgood:

He obviously manages a large tract of land on his own and has for quite some time. Probably decades. So, it would make sense that he's a man of habit and schedule, in my opinion. He's probably much like like tens of thousands of men his age who work and live in rural areas across America. IMHO.

I'm not defending or condemning his actions, because I have no clue as to his motivation. And LE hasn't named him as a suspect. I do believe, however, that his actions show little proof of guilt or relevance to this crime. They're pretty mundane, tbh. Moo.

LE has proven that he's hard-headed and unwilling to follow the terms of his probation, but that also is not evidence that he's guilty of murder. One thing we can say with certainty is that it proves he violated the probation terms of his felony DUI conviction, which is why he's sitting in jail. :jail:

Right. He sure didn't risk violating his probation to go recycle... Unless he did it regularly. If so, why now? Is it just the fact the town was full of LE agencies, but then why the hoo-ha of the SW. They had to suspect some involvement. MOO

I'm not sure either way. I guess we may find out more tomorrow.

 

[mazblondie]

No. The video shows the attack on the bridge.

Do you have a link to this please?
I have only seen the two pictures released by LE.. no other video? TIA

 

[skibaboo]

The hyperfocus on RL is somewhat understandable since he's really the only person LE has mentioned by name, thereby he's really the only person that Websleuths TOS allows us to sleuth.

THAT SAID, I just keep reminding myself: Family, friends, neighbors, community members of these girls (and of RL) are probably reading these threads. I suggest we put down the pitchforks and torches regarding RL and be very careful about not accusing people of crimes they have not been charged with. lease:

My heart aches for all of them.

For context, I'll repost the MSM report I shared in the prior thread:

–––––––

LE has issued "approximately 70 search warrants and subpoenas ..." in this case.
(quote source: March 13 Fox 59 news report: http://fox59.com/2017/03/13/police-c...-investigation)

–––––––

RL was only one of the people served.

Plus, I strongly believe we're just bored and chasing our tails as we speculate as to why RL remains in custody and his truck was impounded.

I've learned a limited amount about DUI law during my experience in the journalism business, and in the few law courses I've taken, and working with attorneys and helping an ex through law school ... and, heck, I also learned from close family (and from myself becoming a victim to a man) who repeatedly violated felony and/or "third-strike DUI rules.

I doubt Indiana law is substantially different than most states when it comes to felony DUI and repeat probation violation. IMHO.

What I'm getting at is RL's being in jail and his car being impounded does not substantiate in any way RL's guilt or innocence in the related murder case. Also, none of it proves or disproves RL is BG. IMHO, none of it is relevant to the murder case. Here's why:

1. Impounding RL's truck: That's not uncommon when people frequently violate terms of DUI probation. It's very likely it's not related to the murders of Libby and Abby, in my most humble and marginally educated opinion. And it happens.

2. Holding RL in jail. This also is common with frequent violators of felony DUI (and/or so-called "third-strike") probation conditions. They're immediately jailed and held without bail. The time they're in jail while waiting on court proceedings is counted as "time served" if the court decides to revoke his probation. This is accepted practice.
If I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected. :loveyou:

Patience, folks. Justice is coming, imo. I can feel it.

Thanks.

I personally have no pitch fork or torch, when I am unsure I tend to keep a little quiet but some times my thoughts need to be out of my head.

Yes we are a victim friendly forum and I try and be considerate of any friends or family that may be reading these threads. Websleuths is very highly regarded by many of those, sometimes they sign up and thank us.

My point of view is this. The finger of suspicion is pointed at RL for some type of involvement because of his own actions and because of the actions AND words of LE. LE stated in the interview at his property, the day of the SW that probable cause had led them to obtain the SW, and that the SW was to hopefully either "clear him or make him a higher suspect" - Higher suspect. To me that says at that time LE believed him to be suspect in some shape or form. We know he was arrested for violating his probation but LE stated the SW was in connection to the double homicide not his probation violation.

Now what we do here at WS is try and join the dots, figure out how LE got to where they have with the information we have available. IMO that is what we are doing. We are allowed to sleuth RL to try and come to that conclusion but not to accuse him of the murders. If you see a post that does that alert it for a moderators attention.

We have really great, intelligent, resourceful posters on these threads, you are relatively new but you seem to be one too. Lets keep these threads open and keep on sleuthing until we have an arrest and justice for the our victims here, Abby & Libby, and their loved ones.

I just needed to say something. Not that I don't agree with your post eace:

 

[ninij9]

The hyperfocus on RL is somewhat understandable since he's really the only person LE has mentioned by name, thereby he's really the only person that Websleuths TOS allows us to sleuth.

THAT SAID, I just keep reminding myself: Family, friends, neighbors, community members of these girls (and of RL) are probably reading these threads. I suggest we put down the pitchforks and torches regarding RL and be very careful about not accusing people of crimes they have not been charged with. lease:

My heart aches for all of them.

For context, I'll repost the MSM report I shared in the prior thread:

–––––––

LE has issued "approximately 70 search warrants and subpoenas ..." in this case.
(quote source: March 13 Fox 59 news report: http://fox59.com/2017/03/13/police-c...-investigation)

–––––––

RL was only one of the people served.

Plus, I strongly believe we're just bored and chasing our tails as we speculate as to why RL remains in custody and his truck was impounded.

I've learned a limited amount about DUI law during my experience in the journalism business, and in the few law courses I've taken, and working with attorneys and helping an ex through law school ... and, heck, I also learned from close family (and from myself becoming a victim to a man) who repeatedly violated felony and/or "third-strike DUI rules.

I doubt Indiana law is substantially different than most states when it comes to felony DUI and repeat probation violation. IMHO.

What I'm getting at is RL's being in jail and his car being impounded does not substantiate in any way RL's guilt or innocence in the related murder case. Also, none of it proves or disproves RL is BG. IMHO, none of it is relevant to the murder case. Here's why:

1. Impounding RL's truck: That's not uncommon when people frequently violate terms of DUI probation. It's very likely it's not related to the murders of Libby and Abby, in my most humble and marginally educated opinion. And it happens.

2. Holding RL in jail. This also is common with frequent violators of felony DUI (and/or so-called "third-strike") probation conditions. They're immediately jailed and held without bail. The time they're in jail while waiting on court proceedings is counted as "time served" if the court decides to revoke his probation. This is accepted practice.
If I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected. :loveyou:

Patience, folks. Justice is coming, imo. I can feel it.

Thanks.

We don't know what types of SW were served on any of those 70 people. They could be all for DNA swab because they are registered SOs (guessing). But I think it would be HIGHLY unlikely that they had 70 probable cause documents. I did some extensive reading on that subject. It really is only saved for the main suspects. And I want to be fair, I also unearthed some cases where they were served and mistaken. Human error. But I don't for one minute believe that this was rushed (it was serviced a month later). I think it was for forensics.
Tools, weapons , garbage bag box lot, zip ties, receipts, mud, rug fibers, duct tape etc. Good old fashioned evidence.

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[ninij9]

Thanks, it's hard for me to know that but when someone seems to be upset by the words they use that are in all caps it looks like yelling to me.

Gotcha. I just try to use one word, not whole sentences.[emoji4]

I wish Tapatalk was MORE (see) user friendly. It's my mainline to WS.

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[Momma2cam]

I think you might have just nailed a couple of things here! I agree he probably recycled and dumped his trash it regularly.

I think he did a lot of things regularly, and is probably like many independent, strong-willed and capable men his age. He doesn't want or need to rely on anyone else to do what he's physically and mentally able to do. It's pride. IMHO. My guess is his determination and single-mindedness is a great asset — and possibly his greatest liability. :notgood:

He obviously manages a large tract of land on his own and has for quite some time. Probably decades. So, it would make sense that he's a man of habit and schedule, in my opinion. He's probably much like like tens of thousands of men his age who work and live in rural areas across America. IMHO.

I'm not defending or condemning his actions, because I have no clue as to his motivation. And LE hasn't named him as a suspect. I do believe, however, that his actions show little proof of guilt or relevance to this crime. They're pretty mundane, tbh. Moo.

LE has proven that he's hard-headed and unwilling to follow the terms of his probation, but that also is not evidence that he's guilty of murder. One thing we can say with certainty is that it proves he violated the probation terms of his felony DUI conviction, which is why he's sitting in jail. :jail:

Well said. It is quite common, in my experience, for individuals to continue driving on suspended licenses, especially if they are stubborn, independent, and live alone. It is almost a set up for failure, in fact, to assume a single man in his mid-70s that lives in a rural community would be able to never drive.

I fully understand that his own actions, poor judgment, and possible alcoholism (not confirmed, I know) lead to that consequence. He certainly has no one to blame but himself but that doesn't make it any more realistic to expect that he'll never drive to get groceries or food, take his trash to the transfer center, etc. That lack of judgment does not at all fall in the same category as murder, imo. But, the probable cause search warrant continues to nag at me and keep me on the fence with his involvement. Jmo.

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[IllinoisMissing]

What I would love to know is.....RL obviously drove himself a lot, he obviously owns his truck(even if in someone else's name)

WHY NOW did he get violated for his probation? Why did they NOW make a big deal out of his truck being parked across the road from his home?

This was not something he did for the first time in the 2-3 years he's been on probation.

Because it's a small town in a mostly rural county. They likely have routinely given offenders like RL a pass...in the past. Now all of this is front and center and they simply have to do what the law requires.

There is nothing else going on with him, IMO.

He is not BG and IMO not involved in the murders. Could the actual murderer have been in one of his outbuildings? Sure, but I doubt it.

If I had the power, I would erase any reference to RL from these threads. But there is nothing else to be sleuthed, so round and round we go.

Ultimately I believe RL will be totally cleared by LE but there will always be people claiming otherwise, even if/when someone else is charged.

RL is not a saint. He makes really bad decisions but I don't believe murder was one of them.

At least in a court of law, RL would be able to defend himself...not so in the social media court of opinion.

The photo LE thought would bring this to a quick close has failed.

Perhaps this is why:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1201335/The-eyes-recognising-know.html

"Our brain looks at a person's eyes first to identify a face, according to a study. It found the brain tries to obtain the maximum amount of information possible from a face, get vital information from, firstly someone's eyes, then the shape of their mouth and, thirdly, their nose "

End of rant. Back to lurking.

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[Snape394]

Because it's a small town in a mostly rural county. They likely have routinely given offenders like RL a pass...in the past. Now all of this is front and center and they simply have to do what the law requires.

There is nothing else going on with him, IMO.

He is not BG and IMO not involved in the murders. Could the actual murderer have been in one of his outbuildings? Sure, but I doubt it.

If I had the power, I would erase any reference to RL from these threads. But there is nothing else to be sleuthed, so round and round we go.

Ultimately I believe RL will be totally cleared by LE but there will always be people claiming otherwise, even if/when someone else is charged.

RL is not a saint. He makes really bad decisions but I don't believe murder was one of them.

At least in a court of law, RL would be able to defend himself...not so in the social media court of opinion.

The photo LE thought would bring this to a quick close has failed.

Perhaps this is why:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1201335/The-eyes-recognising-know.html

"Our brain looks at a person's eyes first to identify a face, according to a study. It found the brain tries to obtain the maximum amount of information possible from a face, get vital information from, firstly someone's eyes, then the shape of their mouth and, thirdly, their nose "

End of rant. Back to lurking.

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Well said

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