IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[Jethro4WS]

Do not let that fool u the cold water is clear this time of year.you can see the bottom in depths of 3 to 5 feet .

Also, we have to keep in mind that the flow and the volume of the creek changes constantly so it is also necessary to compare water flow volume levels on the day that video by JM was taken with both the 14th and the 13th.

As I have said previously I am strongly of the opinion that neither the girls nor BG nor anyone for that matter crossed that creek on the 13th.

 

[Bemused]

Jax, there are probably more media reports in YouTube for 2/13 when they were presumed missing only.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfi2WI9fo5o

The reporter said "several deputies, a drone and DNR" were searching. It's already dark in this piece.

Another

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kop2LjEGm_8

 

[ab01]

If they edited her out, then they did a bad job editing.

But does it really matter? ..... We know the two girls were together when the photo was taken.

I don't know if anything we can discuss at this point really matters as you say. But it does actually help to understand how everything may have played out. Thx for your input, I'll catch ya when the merry go round makes another turn[emoji23]


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[ugh]

If they edited her out, then they did a bad job editing.

But does it really matter? ..... We know the two girls were together when the photo was taken.

I agree - if they did a good job editing we wouldn't potentially be seeing areas that are up for debate. :laughitup: IMO, I think it's plausible to consider that they had a relatively short time to edit the image and it was good enough (aka, didn't show the victim).

I don't think it matters in the long run as evidence. Just found it interesting that even after seeing a pic probably 1000 times, that on the 1001st viewing, something can all of the sudden jump out at you.

 

[WebSight]

Hi everyone! Longtime lurker but first time posting so hopefully I'm doing this right! :greetings:

I have always thought it was not Abby's sleeve because of how close she would be to the edge and BG. I do see areas in the photos that appear they could have been manipulated though (not an expert necessarily, but have been a regular user of Photoshop for over 15 years).

However, looking at it again I wondering if perspective is just playing tricks. Perhaps that is *part* of Abby's sleeve (or collar, etc.) but she's much closer to Liberty and it just appears closer to BG because it's kind of floating there. Liberty could have been pretending to take a pic/video of Abby right in front of her but pointing the camera over her shoulder or arm. When BG kept advancing, Abby could of turned around to look or they could have started to flee and the erased/cloned parts could be where that movement is shown. Hope that makes sense!

All is IMO, MOO, etc. :cow:

:greetings::welcome6: from a fairly newbie to another!

Before I started fiddling with the pictures until I could see. no. longer. I used to believe that that was possibly Abby and that she was close to BG and about ready to be accosted.

But I was looking at the perspective of distance just today, in fact, and I am with you on this: If Abby is in the picture, I now believe that she is closer to Libby.

On the other hand, after all this scrutinizing, I now have doubts as to whether that is Abby at all and I used to be one of the loudest voices in favour of that being Abby, so this is a big revelation for me.

 

[otto]

Also, we have to keep in mind that the flow and the volume of the creek changes constantly so it is also necessary to compare water flow volume levels on the day that video by JM was taken with both the 14th and the 13th.

As I have said previously I am strongly of the opinion that neither the girls nor BG nor anyone for that matter crossed that creek on the 13th.

If they were abducted on the SE end of the bridge and their bodies were found on the North side of the river, how did they get there?

 

[Swayze]

Hi guys, I took a break due to frustration and it doesn't look like I've missed much :/

Did we ever hear any more about that photographer who claimed he could "see the girls clothes in the water"? I also remember that same photographer had a pic of a detective right near the river bank right where the girls were found that also appeared to be digitally altered. Can anyone link to the screenshot of the photog's post about the clothes, and the pictures he took the day they were found?

Thanks!

 

[cluciano63]

They must have test results back by now, except maybe toxicology...but if they have no one to match anything to...won't be of much use until they do. Jmo

 

[otto]

Hi guys, I took a break due to frustration and it doesn't look like I've missed much :/

Did we ever hear any more about that photographer who claimed he could "see the girls clothes in the water"? I also remember that same photographer had a pic of a detective right near the river bank right where the girls were found that also appeared to be digitally altered. Can anyone link to the screenshot of the photog's post about the clothes, and the pictures he took the day they were found?

Thanks!

Anyone who saw something red in the water was probably looking at the search team as they all were dressed in red.

 

[Bemused]

Also, we have to keep in mind that the flow and the volume of the creek changes constantly so it is also necessary to compare water flow volume levels on the day that video by JM was taken with both the 14th and the 13th.

As I have said previously I am strongly of the opinion that neither the girls nor BG nor anyone for that matter crossed that creek on the 13th.

The crime scene investigators would've noticed wet footwear and bottoms of the girls' pants as well as whatever footprints they could follow. If they crossed that creek LE will know. IMO

 

[asyousay]

How would BG of controlled the girls if he had to walk them back along that bridge and he also run the risk of being seen as well ?

I think it's as simple as he reached the end of the bridge where Libby had taken that photo and pulled a weapon and took them down to the hill to get them out of sight.

IMO

 

[Swayze]

Anyone who saw something red in the water was probably looking at the search team as they all were dressed in red.

He never said anything about seeing any red clothes. Where did you get that?

 

[Patriot10]

BG's nose is very distinctive. It is referred to as a bulbous nose. (It has also been called potato nose on these threads). I hope the nose can play a role in identifying him.

Anyone think there is a very small chance the bridge guy (BG) wore a disguise? I don't really think so. Due to his age, he's not very tech savvy and wasn't able to destroy the images from the victim's phone. Also, he wasn't planning on letting the girls live to describe him. I don't think he had the foresight to consider the girls would have gotten video or still photos of him before the attack or even during.

On the other hand-- if he is extremely, extremely careful and methodical and patient and like the Zodiac (who claimed to have worn disguises) he might have worn a disguise especially if he is a local on the small chance that one or both victims either escaped his attack or survived.

 

[ab01]

How would BG of controlled the girls if he had to walk them back along that bridge and he also run the risk of being seen as well ?

I think it's as simple as he reached the end of the bridge where Libby had taken that photo and pulled a weapon and took them down to the hill to get them out of site.

IMO

If somebody pulled a gun out on me while I was on that bridge, I think I would probably do what he said and start walking. We all say oh no way I wouldn't do that, until somebody actually pulls a gun on you....MOO


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[otto]

The crime scene investigators would've noticed wet footwear and bottoms of the girls' pants as well as whatever footprints they could follow. If they crossed that creek LE will know. IMO

Their feet wouldn't still be wet the following day when the bodies were found.

 

[ab01]

Their feet wouldn't still be wet the following day when the bodies were found.

Over night in near freezing temperatures, I think there is a good possibility that they wouldn't dry very quickly JMO


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[Bemused]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/29458...eving-grandfather-pays-heartbreaking-tribute/

That article says 1/4 mile from the bridge so it varies but they seem to have a more accurate picture that aligns with Nin's.

 

[asyousay]

If somebody pulled a gun out on me while I was on that bridge, I think I would probably do what he said and start walking. We all say oh no way I wouldn't do that, until somebody actually pulls a gun on you....MOO


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The problem I have is that he would not be in control as he would have to watch his steps as the bridge was rotting in places and lots of wood was missing so you could easily miss a step if you was trying to constrain two girls.

IMO

 

[Bemused]

Their feet wouldn't still be wet the following day when the bodies were found.

WADR, given the temperatures, I doubt it. Abby was wearing what looked like canvas high tops. Those do not air dry overnight IMO.

 

[otto]

How would BG of controlled the girls if he had to walk them back along that bridge and he also run the risk of being seen as well ?

I think it's as simple as he reached the end of the bridge where Libby had taken that photo and pulled a weapon and took them down to the hill to get them out of sight.

IMO

We know the girls were on the SE end of the bridge, and given the timeline, I'm confident that they were dropped off at the North end of the park. I don't believe that he would take a chance of being seen or meeting someone by forcing them to walk back to the North end of the High Bridge, but instead, as you say, he told them to go down the hill on the South end of the bridge.

Their bodies were found on the North side of the river, so it makes sense that they crossed the river at some point. I think it's very likely that the suspect murdered the girls near his vehicle. It makes complete sense that he parked at the cemetery after seeing the girls being dropped off, and saw the girls on the bridge. It might have been easiest to cross the river and enter the bridge from the SE end, turn around, then take the girls back the way he came - just South of the cemetery.