IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #48

[whiskers]

I have a question, hoping for some input on my thoughts to the answer..

Since the FBI was already on scene February 14th BEFORE the girls were found , why would that be?

There would be zero reason for them to be there for a search. Remember the night before, when the search was called off, there was zero concern about foul play .

My thought.. local LE found Libby's cell phone uploads from the cloud later that night and called in the FBI.

In MOO..

Also I'm pretty sure the FBI has left the investigation because #1) no electronic crime was committed ( catfishing) and #2 no crime was committed across state lines. This crime is not what the FBI does with local/state crime.

When I say I'm pretty sure, I'm confident that I'm right

Still MOO though [emoji12]

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Excellent point. I've also wondered how and why FBI arrived so fast when the girls were only presumed to be missing and possibly runaways. They rarely appear so fast in other missing persons cases.

 

[Boxeador]

Originally Posted by Owl4
Hello all!
Quickly I have something to share. (At work still) about 5 hours ago a friend of mine that lives in Kirklin, Indiana said down her street but near 38 local police, state police & FBI with 2 tan vans were there. She said you never, ever see this here. Especially down my street. I texted back Possibly you think it could be about Abby & Libby? She said I have no idea but gonna now go on my porch and investigate with my binoculars! I haven't heard back.. just curious how close is that to Delphi? Maybe it is nothing to do with this case but makes me go hmmm... ����


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Did anyone have anymore information on this action?
That is a big raid.

 

[Jethro4WS]

New toys!! :loveyou: I can't wait!

One thing I will add, is that I believe the LIDAR views over-exaggerate the slopes (they look steeper in LIDAR) we end up seeing in photos we have or videos we have in the woods near the bridge. I have found that overlaying the LIDAR over Google Earth and then examining the Elevation that Google Earth reports as you move your mouse around is helpful to get a better sense of the slope.

An example, is if you look at the LIDAR map I posted (or make your own on that site) you can see the "path" from the SW corner of the cemetery down to the flat area near the creek. If you noticed the LIDAR map I posted I also had the topographic overlay. And when you look at that "path" you can see the topographic lines "bending" back into what looks more like a ravine than something shallower. Well, it is not as deep as the LIDAR "seems" to show but perhaps only about 9-12 feet lower than the higher areas to the sides over a wider width so it is less ravine like.

That "path" also flows with water if there is sufficient rain that requires excess drainage. There is another one just like that further east on RL's property. The narrower "ravine" in between the two is likely the "path" we see in the photo that also shows RL's dog and the cameraman below.

I think you'll understand and get a sense for this if you play around with it a bit. It is just that process of reconciling that the slopes in the LIDAR are not as extreme as they appear.

 

[MistyWaters]

I have a question, hoping for some input on my thoughts to the answer..

Since the FBI was already on scene February 14th BEFORE the girls were found , why would that be?

There would be zero reason for them to be there for a search. Remember the night before, when the search was called off, there was zero concern about foul play .

My thought.. local LE found Libby's cell phone uploads from the cloud later that night and called in the FBI.

In MOO..

Also I'm pretty sure the FBI has left the investigation because #1) no electronic crime was committed ( catfishing) and #2 no crime was committed across state lines. This crime is not what the FBI does with local/state crime.

When I say I'm pretty sure, I'm confident that I'm right

Still MOO though [emoji12]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

According to this, Apr 7, the FBI are still involved in the case.

"In the weeks since the girls’ deaths, Riley said there have been roughly 15,000 tips submitted, averaging 120-125 per day. While dozens of officials from several different agencies were once working on the investigation, Riley said that number has been scaled back to about 15 to 20 officers from the FBI, Indiana State Police and Carroll County law enforcement."
http://www.kokomotribune.com/news/s...cle_67759d06-1b8f-11e7-b71e-ef41faca2ba7.html

 

[Mainemom76]

IIRC, when this was mentioned many threads ago a source was requested and I don't believe anyone was ever able to provide one. If it was said I'd be very interested in hearing it. TIA

I remember it too
and thought it was odd. JMO

 

[ReggieHammond]

I honestly have no idea, but I do think it's plausible....


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[FONT=&quot]I have felt the same. He could've been looking down to watch his step, as well as to hide his face as much as he could because he saw he was being recorded. I also think he may have been looking down, to avoid looking at the girls, so they wouldn't think he was coming for them, which may explain why they didn't run.[/FONT]

 

[Bemused]

I have a question, hoping for some input on my thoughts to the answer..

Since the FBI was already on scene February 14th BEFORE the girls were found , why would that be?

There would be zero reason for them to be there for a search. Remember the night before, when the search was called off, there was zero concern about foul play .

My thought.. local LE found Libby's cell phone uploads from the cloud later that night and called in the FBI.

In MOO..

Also I'm pretty sure the FBI has left the investigation because #1) no electronic crime was committed ( catfishing) and #2 no crime was committed across state lines. This crime is not what the FBI does with local/state crime.

When I say I'm pretty sure, I'm confident that I'm right

Still MOO though [emoji12]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TTBOMK the FBI is still involved.

 

[Hatfield]

Excellent point. I've also wondered how and why FBI arrived so fast when the girls were only presumed to be missing and possibly runaways. They rarely appear so fast in other missing persons cases.

Scarlett could be right that local LE had found the video somehow from the phone. Either from the cloud or the phone itself was found.

If they saw that video then they likely called the FBI right away.

This is a good theory and would mean the video was viewed before the bodies were found.

So is this possible clue that the video came from the cloud or is this a clue that the phone was found somewhere in town or maybe near the bridge.

 

[Bemused]

Have not ever seen or heard that. In the initial PC's LE said one of two things happened (I'm re-capping, not quoting) - either it was a chance encounter (which LE characterized as doubtful), or someone knew they would be there.

I think there's room for an opportunist killer having some basic information, which could be as simple as seeing them dropped off and stalking them, knowing from the drop off that they weren't part of a larger group or with any adults. It could be from SM, or unintended info through friends of the girls in SM exchanges. Could be he'd watched them before in that area (there was an article that said Libby and her sister went to the trails together at times), and a friend of Libby's said the bridge was one of her favorite spots.

Maybe there was another encounter that same day, but again, that could be as simple as they passed him and he creeped them out, or he attempted a conversation lure to see if they were easy marks and they blew him off. But LE has never to my knowledge confirmed evidence any other encounter.

I think it was Doug Carter who made the comment about a chance encounter. Or maybe it was the SAC, but I don't have time to listen to this in its entirety. I think Steleheart said Carter starts approximately at the 5 minute mark because Slocum opens.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mZcHfgbOcKo

ETA I'm pretty sure Doug Carter's boss is the governor of Indiana so he's the highest-ranking LEO in their state.

 

[Elley Mae]

The fbi has an office in castleton, an hour 20 minutes north, possible since the girls were presumed lost/missing and not found in the morning local LE reached out to them. Jmo

I have a question, hoping for some input on my thoughts to the answer..

Since the FBI was already on scene February 14th BEFORE the girls were found , why would that be?

There would be zero reason for them to be there for a search. Remember the night before, when the search was called off, there was zero concern about foul play .

My thought.. local LE found Libby's cell phone uploads from the cloud later that night and called in the FBI.

In MOO..

Also I'm pretty sure the FBI has left the investigation because #1) no electronic crime was committed ( catfishing) and #2 no crime was committed across state lines. This crime is not what the FBI does with local/state crime.

When I say I'm pretty sure, I'm confident that I'm right

Still MOO though [emoji12]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cathdawg]

I googled , 36 miles from Delphi to Kirklin Indiana. RE post # 722

 

[Deleted member 155000]

To me, it would be reasonable for police to release even 1 second of BG walking so the public could observe his gait/movement.

Why do you think they haven't?

One guess I have is that perhaps he pulls out a weapon in the next frame and they therefore don't want to reveal it.


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[Hatfield]

This is JMO

I just dont see local LE calling the FBI unless they knew something really bad has happened. Either they saw that video before the bodies were found or they somehow knew they were kidnapped and not just lost.

The reason I think this is because of TV shows that have convinced me that local LE would not want to involve an outside agency for a more trivial matter like a lost person who was only missing about 24 hours and could be found anytime.

I think they somehow knew this was really bad and called the FBI in. Which means either video was viewed or they knew they had been kidnapped somehow. Other than the video I see no other way they would know that.

 

[steeltowngirl]

There is no official trail at the south side of the bridge. The rail bed, where the tracks were, continues beyond the bridge turning more southward - as the abandoned rail line there continues south to the southern border of Carroll County and beyond. That rail bed, while grown in a bit, is level and solid with a large gravel base which is why abandoned railways make ideal walking trails. If you were to follow along that abandoned rail bed for quite a long walk you would likely end up in Indianapolis.

Interesting that the rail bed leads to Indianapolis. This homeless camp along the railway there was relocating in early February.
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2017/02/13/indianapolis-homeless-camp-jungle-close/97820236/

 

[whiskers]

This is JMO

I just dont see local LE calling the FBI unless they knew something really bad has happened. Either they saw that video before the bodies were found or they somehow knew they were kidnapped and not just lost.

The reason I think this is because of TV shows that have convinced me that local LE would not want to involve an outside agency for a more trivial matter like a lost person who was only missing about 24 hours and could be found anytime.

I think they somehow knew this was really bad and called the FBI in. Which means either video was viewed or they knew they had been kidnapped somehow. Other than the video I see no other way they would know that.

Really good points and also about the video being in the cloud, etc. LE simply doesn't reach out so fast to the FBI with missing people and even teens. If that was the case, the FBI would be all over the place and spread too thin.

It's an interesting tidbit how and why they arrived super fast.

 

[asyousay]

This is JMO

I just dont see local LE calling the FBI unless they knew something really bad has happened. Either they saw that video before the bodies were found or they somehow knew they were kidnapped and not just lost.

The reason I think this is because of TV shows that have convinced me that local LE would not want to involve an outside agency for a more trivial matter like a lost person who was only missing about 24 hours and could be found anytime.

I think they somehow knew this was really bad and called the FBI in. Which means either video was viewed or they knew they had been kidnapped somehow. Other than the video I see no other way they would know that.

Do we know the phone Libby had as that's possible , for example I have a iphone so my stuff automatically syncs to my iPad as I have set it up that.

So I take a photo on my phone and it goes onto my iPad as well even if I'm out.

 

[bodester413]

I wondered about that too. They said they have more video and audio. My only guess would be...like you said....the rest of the video shows something they don't want out in public just yet...

To me, it would be reasonable for police to release even 1 second of BG walking so the public could observe his gait/movement.

Why do you think they haven't?

One guess I have is that perhaps he pulls out a weapon in the next frame and they therefore don't want to reveal it.


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[Scarlett12]

According to this, Apr 7, the FBI are still involved in the case.

"In the weeks since the girls’ deaths, Riley said there have been roughly 15,000 tips submitted, averaging 120-125 per day. While dozens of officials from several different agencies were once working on the investigation, Riley said that number has been scaled back to about 15 to 20 officers from the FBI, Indiana State Police and Carroll County law enforcement."
http://www.kokomotribune.com/news/s...cle_67759d06-1b8f-11e7-b71e-ef41faca2ba7.html

They are barely involved as of right now in the investigation portion of it. Tip line yes, day to day detective work no

Edited to add MOO [emoji16]
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[Mainemom76]

36 miles from Delphi

Ok I'm an idiot. Clearly I missed something. Who IS this guy?

 

[cathdawg]

My mistake, I was responding to comment #722 page 49.

The distance between Kirklin Indiana and Delphi. (36 miles)