IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #48

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expatCanada said:
http://www.delphitimes.net/localnews.html

From the Delphi Times:
Note: On Thursday night, February 16th, law enforcement officers executed a search warrant on a home at 11036 West Bicycle Bridge Road, Delphi, IN. The warrant was part of the ongoing Delphi investigation. At this time, no person at this home is considered a suspect in the Delphi murder investigation.
Click to expand...
Right I saw that. Again the news showed the address while the search was taking place.

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Burnt Toast said:
yes, but no live interviews with LE like at the search at RL's.
Click to expand...
Wait... I just recalled that an ISP trooper actually talked to HLN that night... Currently looking for link


[video=twitter;832398284559839232]https://twitter.com/PTJusticeHLN/status/832398284559839232[/video]

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jillycat said:
Why would she record in the direction of BG?
Click to expand...

IMO it's possible if not probable that Libby was taking a video (maybe on Snapchat, boomerang, vine, instagram, etc.) of Abby and caught BG in the background.

This may have been on purpose - this guy is creepy let's see if I can pretend I'm taking a photo of you but get him in this video.

Or, maybe it wasn't on purpose - they playfully take videos of each other, as teens often do with the various social media platforms these days, and Libby happens to catch BG in the background. LE later try to edit the photo to make it visible for the public.

Later, Libby starts recording again as BG gets closer and the vibe gets tense, recording the "down the hill" audio when BG made it to the end of the bridge to meet the girls (if we're thinking now the girls were just off the bridge when the photo of BG was taken).

Just my thoughts so far - they're always changing. All IMOO and speculation.


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Jethro4WS said:
In my theory of the crime there is more than one person involved. There are a number of factors that have led me to that theory. Some of those are mentioned in that post. Others factors are in earlier posts.

I agree that the voice is authoritative. Something that I think is very important it identifying the person that spoke those words. But I don't believe a lone perpetrator could freeze the girls in place from that distance with no outwardly visible appearance of any weapon. The way I see it as fast as Libby decided to start recording and hide her phone should have been fast enough to decide to get out of there rather than wait about 45 to 60 seconds for BG to get to them. He certainly didn't run to get to them as you don't hear any indication in the voice on the audio that the speaker had just been running let alone any exertion.

Others disagree that there is more than one perpetrator.
Click to expand...

I can see this as well. My curiosity keeps me asking this of the video was snapped at whichever end of the bridge,. And BG was some 70-80 ft away, and the slope next to the end of the bridge is the " down the hill" . . What could have held the girls up from continuing their walk? Considering the video was taken out of fear.did they continue and were forced back? Did they wait, if so was it to see if BG would pass and they wouldn't have to worry about him being behind the? Or maybe another person involved was approaching from the opposite side closing them in. All speculations imo
Wondering what you and others think.
 
jillycat said:
Are you thinking there is additional video or was she likely intending to capture audio at that point? I can't see how she would try to video someone or something close to her.
Click to expand...
Well, I can never know what Libby's intent was. My best guess is she activated the video and hid the phone. Otherwise we would have closer looks at BG than we have and I can't imagine LE wouldn't release a better view of BG if they had it. I also can't imagine they wouldn't release more video of BG moving on the bridge if they had it as well.

That said, LE has said they have more video but I expect that most of it is audio and the view of wherever Libby had put her phone. It is possible that the video was still running when or if the perpetrator(s) discovered the phone and therefore it is possible that some actual video exists but it only shows something like the ground or jeans or shoes but not faces.
 
First time poster here. I started following this case because I strongly suspected a local person (about 45 minutes away from crimes) may be BG. I did offer up my tip. However, I have great faith LE has either cleared him (most likely) or will soon arrest him. I also think he may not fit the likely height range of BG. However, I have since followed this case strongly, and I discovered this amazing forum while trying to figure out who committed this unthinkable crime.

I just wanted to share a couple of thoughts. First…regarding RL. My theory regarding his unfortunate and thoughtless remark in the courtroom reminded me strongly of what I know about the early stages of dementia or cognitive decline that may be complicated by chronic alcohol use. I think the reasons his alibi or other stories to LE are possibly consistently inconsistent is a combination of general confusion of details coupled with a paranoia or defensivenessthat may occur with a cognitive unraveling. I think he has enough cognitive ability to realize he may be perceived as a suspect, and over reached to media to prove that he was not. I think the defensiveness continued to show in front of the judge. He used such a sad, dismissive choice ofwords. However, the tone reminded me of someone losing everything (including own mental abilities), and not that ofs omeone possible capable of such a terrible evil. This is only my own opinion & based on no firsthand knowledge.

The second thing I wanted to share was a you tube video that I found when looking at other posts of possible connections to the tragic loss of the Iowa girls several years ago. Forgive me if this has already been posted. Although it specifically relates to the Iowa case, I thought it was so hauntingly familiar that it should be looked at by sleuthers looking for answers and justice of Abby & Libby. [video=youtube;oAZWdBFs2LQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAZWdBFs2LQ[/video] Video title on you tube is “missing no more,”and it focuses on a local Iowa man showing the location of the discovery of the bodies of those two beautiful girls.

I’m sharing my thoughts on stumbling on the video only because it was striking to me If the person I originally suspected was the perpetrator, it would take out any SK element. I think my suspect has already been cleared by LE, but I so look forward to finding out a resolution and seeing justice for these beautiful girls.
 
Bemused said:
Those comments were the same evening of the SW? IIRC, they made a statement fairly quickly the occupants were cleared. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Right.

How is that different that police staying RL is "not considered a suspect (at the time)"

In your opinion... Just curious.

Not directing anything at you... Just seems like some times it's a damned if they do... Damned if they don't type thing for LE.

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otto said:
Police seemed to release at one point that the voice was associated with the suspect, but since that time I have read conflicting reports.

Without evidence of a second person, and without seeing the suspect's lips move corresponding to audio, we don't know whether the audio belongs to the suspect, but I think it's a good bet.
Click to expand...

Has the length (not contents) of the full audio clip ever been released? Or the time stamp, as in when exactly was it recorded?
 
Reluctant1 said:
First time poster here. I started following this case because I strongly suspected a local person (about 45 minutes away from crimes) may be BG. I did offer up my tip. However, I have great faith LE has either cleared him (most likely) or will soon arrest him. I also think he may not fit the likely height range of BG. However, I have since followed this case strongly, and I discovered this amazing forum while trying to figure out who committed this unthinkable crime.

I just wanted to share a couple of thoughts. First…regarding RL. My theory regarding his unfortunate and thoughtless remark in the courtroom reminded me strongly of what I know about the early stages of dementia or cognitive decline that may be complicated by chronic alcohol use. I think the reasons his alibi or other stories to LE are possibly consistently inconsistent is a combination of general confusion of details coupled with a paranoia or defensivenessthat may occur with a cognitive unraveling. I think he has enough cognitive ability to realize he may be perceived as a suspect, and over reached to media to prove that he was not. I think the defensiveness continued to show in front of the judge. He used such a sad, dismissive choice ofwords. However, the tone reminded me of someone losing everything (including own mental abilities), and not that ofs omeone possible capable of such a terrible evil. This is only my own opinion & based on no firsthand knowledge.

The second thing I wanted to share was a you tube video that I found when looking at other posts of possible connections to the tragic loss of the Iowa girls several years ago. Forgive me if this has already been posted. Although it specifically relates to the Iowa case, I thought it was so hauntingly familiar that it should be looked at by sleuthers looking for answers and justice of Abby & Libby. [video=youtube;oAZWdBFs2LQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAZWdBFs2LQ[/video] Video title on you tube is “missing no more,”and it focuses on a local Iowa man showing the location of the discovery of the bodies of those two beautiful girls.

I’m sharing my thoughts on stumbling on the video only because it was striking to me If the person I originally suspected was the perpetrator, it would take out any SK element. I think my suspect has already been cleared by LE, but I so look forward to finding out a resolution and seeing justice for these beautiful girls.
Click to expand...

Welcome!! I was wondering myself about the mental state of BG ( bridge guy) nice post. I've not seen this particular video thanks for sharing.
 
Jethro4WS said:
In my theory of the crime there is more than one person involved. There are a number of factors that have led me to that theory. Some of those are mentioned in that post. Others factors are in earlier posts.

I agree that the voice is authoritative. Something that I think is very important it identifying the person that spoke those words. But I don't believe a lone perpetrator could freeze the girls in place from that distance with no outwardly visible appearance of any weapon. The way I see it as fast as Libby decided to start recording and hide her phone should have been fast enough to decide to get out of there rather than wait about 45 to 60 seconds for BG to get to them. He certainly didn't run to get to them as you don't hear any indication in the voice on the audio that the speaker had just been running let alone any exertion.

Others disagree that there is more than one perpetrator.
Click to expand...

Interesting point. I have never personally believed there was more than one and I do want to raise the question that at that side of the bridge where could the girls have really run to anyway? Or did fear cause them to make the wrong choice by trying to run back across the creek towards where their family member would be picking up (if I am understanding the directions of this correctly). I mean they likely knew the trail ended at the end they were at and doesn't look like from video there was really anywhere they could go. Perhaps they also knew it was private property. I realize that may not sound wholly logical (some might say run anyway, try to get to one of the houses or landowners, etc) but fear response is not always logical. I know that very personally. I can tell you all of a story about a time I basically almost killed myself because in the trauma of the moment I was so set on rules and things I'd been told as well as extreme distrust for those around me that I failed to see the logical and literally lifesaving option even when it was pointed out to me. The specifics of my story are besides the point because obviously I wasn't in those woods on that bridge but I know it baffled me later on too why the heck I'd done what I had. But in the middle of such a situation your mind isn't working the same way. So many who have been tragic situations have stated the same even in posts.

Anyway, with that said, you have a very interesting point with regards to the voice and how clear it is he did not run. Worth saying that I doubt one could easily run in general, dressed as BG was. Those jeans look awfully thick/stiff and to say nothing of the potential he's hiding multiple things in that jacket or on his person. Frankly that alone could be reason to suspect a second person was involved. How could you know for sure the girls wouldn't try to escape and how could you expect to catch two young athletic girls dressed the way BG was? Even if it is possible to run or move fast dressed that way let's assume it would be a strain. Those jeans would impede as would anything he's carrying/hiding on him. You sure don't hear any strain or labored breathing in that audio clip.

Of course it's also been pointed out that we honestly don't know when the audio happened. We all seem hooked to the assumption that the audio occurred at the end of the bridge or right away. It really could've happened at any point between there and the scene the girls were found. I think it's logical to look at the area and assume what we are but there's so very much we don't know so perhaps we don't even know when "down the hill" was said.

With all that said, I appreciate this discussion a lot because while I said I've never gotten the feeling there was more than one person (and in general believe it's very possible for one person to subdue two people) these discussions have definitely given me a lot to consider and like everything else, the more I read and discuss the less I'm certain of at all!


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Aropizt said:
Interesting point. I have never personally believed there was more than one and I do want to raise the question that at that side of the bridge where could the girls have really run to anyway? Or did fear cause them to make the wrong choice by trying to run back across the creek towards where their family member would be picking up (if I am understanding the directions of this correctly). I mean they likely knew the trail ended at the end they were at and doesn't look like from video there was really anywhere they could go. Perhaps they also knew it was private property. I realize that may not sound wholly logical (some might say run anyway, try to get to one of the houses or landowners, etc) but fear response is not always logical. I know that very personally. I can tell you all of a story about a time I basically almost killed myself because in the trauma of the moment I was so set on rules and things I'd been told as well as extreme distrust for those around me that I failed to see the logical and literally lifesaving option even when it was pointed out to me. The specifics of my story are besides the point because obviously I wasn't in those woods on that bridge but I know it baffled me later on too why the heck I'd done what I had. But in the middle of such a situation your mind isn't working the same way. So many who have been tragic situations have stated the same even in posts.

Anyway, with that said, you have a very interesting point with regards to the voice and how clear it is he did not run. Worth saying that I doubt one could easily run in general, dressed as BG was. Those jeans look awfully thick/stiff and to say nothing of the potential he's hiding multiple things in that jacket or on his person. Frankly that alone could be reason to suspect a second person was involved. How could you know for sure the girls wouldn't try to escape and how could you expect to catch two young athletic girls dressed the way BG was? Even if it is possible to run or move fast dressed that way let's assume it would be a strain. Those jeans would impede as would anything he's carrying/hiding on him. You sure don't hear any strain or labored breathing in that audio clip.

Of course it's also been pointed out that we honestly don't know when the audio happened. We all seem hooked to the assumption that the audio occurred at the end of the bridge or right away. It really could've happened at any point between there and the scene the girls were found. I think it's logical to look at the area and assume what we are but there's so very much we don't know so perhaps we don't even know when "down the hill" was said.

With all that said, I appreciate this discussion a lot because while I said I've never gotten the feeling there was more than one person (and in general believe it's very possible for one person to subdue two people) these discussions have definitely given me a lot to consider and like everything else, the more I read and discuss the less I'm certain of at all!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Exactly what I keep trying to ask! BG was some 70-80 feet away as I understand it. What held them up? Anyway I won't repeat my whole other post it's somewhere on this page. But I feel the same as you, the more I learn​the more questions I have!
 
MHCH said:
Right.

How is that different that police staying RL is "not considered a suspect (at the time)"

In your opinion... Just curious.

Not directing anything at you... Just seems like some times it's a damned if they do... Damned if they don't type thing for LE.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Well, that BBR SW was served two days after the murders were discovered, so on Feb 16. IIRC, the residents were publicly cleared in a short time but I'll have to look to verify.

We are two months out from the murders and RL has still not been publicly cleared by LE, TTBOMK.

I think that says a lot to me.
 
Lilowlet said:
I can see this as well. My curiosity keeps me asking this of the video was snapped at whichever end of the bridge,. And BG was some 70-80 ft away, and the slope next to the end of the bridge is the " down the hill" . . What could have held the girls up from continuing their walk? Considering the video was taken out of fear.did they continue and were forced back? Did they wait, if so was it to see if BG would pass and they wouldn't have to worry about him being behind the? Or maybe another person involved was approaching from the opposite side closing them in. All speculations imo
Wondering what you and others think.
Click to expand...
Those are all the right questions to ask. It is important to keep in mind that the girls were very familiar with where they were. That gave them a significant advantage when combined with the distance BG was from them. They wouldn't be in a situation where if they were to have fled that it would be a random direction or place. So that is what leaves me in a quandary as to why it appears (at least to me) neither one of them fled.
 
MHCH said:
Right.

How is that different that police staying RL is "not considered a suspect (at the time)"

In your opinion... Just curious.

Not directing anything at you... Just seems like some times it's a damned if they do... Damned if they don't type thing for LE.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
saying someone is not a suspect is not clearing them from the crime. The majority of the time LE does not identify a suspect until the the time of arrest.
 
Reluctant1 said:
First time poster here. I started following this case because I strongly suspected a local person (about 45 minutes away from crimes) may be BG. I did offer up my tip. However, I have great faith LE has either cleared him (most likely) or will soon arrest him. I also think he may not fit the likely height range of BG. However, I have since followed this case strongly, and I discovered this amazing forum while trying to figure out who committed this unthinkable crime.

I just wanted to share a couple of thoughts. First…regarding RL. My theory regarding his unfortunate and thoughtless remark in the courtroom reminded me strongly of what I know about the early stages of dementia or cognitive decline that may be complicated by chronic alcohol use. I think the reasons his alibi or other stories to LE are possibly consistently inconsistent is a combination of general confusion of details coupled with a paranoia or defensivenessthat may occur with a cognitive unraveling. I think he has enough cognitive ability to realize he may be perceived as a suspect, and over reached to media to prove that he was not. I think the defensiveness continued to show in front of the judge. He used such a sad, dismissive choice ofwords. However, the tone reminded me of someone losing everything (including own mental abilities), and not that ofs omeone possible capable of such a terrible evil. This is only my own opinion & based on no firsthand knowledge.

The second thing I wanted to share was a you tube video that I found when looking at other posts of possible connections to the tragic loss of the Iowa girls several years ago. Forgive me if this has already been posted. Although it specifically relates to the Iowa case, I thought it was so hauntingly familiar that it should be looked at by sleuthers looking for answers and justice of Abby & Libby. [video=youtube;oAZWdBFs2LQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAZWdBFs2LQ[/video] Video title on you tube is “missing no more,”and it focuses on a local Iowa man showing the location of the discovery of the bodies of those two beautiful girls.

I’m sharing my thoughts on stumbling on the video only because it was striking to me If the person I originally suspected was the perpetrator, it would take out any SK element. I think my suspect has already been cleared by LE, but I so look forward to finding out a resolution and seeing justice for these beautiful girls.
Click to expand...

Welcome to websleuths Reluctant1! Thank you for joining us. Great first post. Many of us are keen to know if there is any link between this case and Elizabeth and Lyric's I sure hope we find out if there is.
 
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