IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #51

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cathdawg said:
Once again I am off topic, the cemetery near the bridge is it called "Morning Heights"? Do we know if the caretaker of the cemetery saw anything odd that day? Last question, can one get from the cemetery to Ron's property? TIA
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You can get to RL's property from both the SE and SW corners of the cemetery. Keep in mind that RL owns 4 parcels of land.

From the SE corner of the cemetery there is a gap in the middle of the short diagonal part of the fencing there. I can't remember if it was from the photos from #1nana or IllinoisMissing but you can see it in those photos. If you have seen any photos of the big set of lights in the cemetery it would be to the left of there those lights were positioned.

From the SW there is a path in a water carved depression. It isn't a creek but when there is large drainage due to very heavy rain in a short period or prolonged rain over a period of days water will run down it to the creek. The middle of that path is the dividing line between RL's easternmost parcel and the neighbor's parcel.

That neighbor has the large field just east of the cemetery as well as the woods behind (south) that field all the way to the creek. This would be the property in between RL's and the bridge and the trail.
 
BessDrew said:
Here's a line of thought I'd love to get people to speculate about more.

We know LE had already listened to/watched the recording BEFORE they served the search warrants.

So while that still doesn't tell us what was on the video, maybe (theoretically) we can guess as to what theories the content excluded?

For example, after watching and listening to the phone call, LE seemed to believe it was worthwhile to interview and search the homes and property of several locals. Does that mean whatever they saw or heard did NOT suggest a professional or serial killer?

Does it mean what they heard or saw of the perp was consistent with someone who was familiar with the local area?

If the killer in the video clearly seemed like an outsider with a kill kit who had plotted the whole thing and targeted the girls in a series of kills, would they be wasting resources searching the homes of these locals?

I am just curious what jumps out at you when you think about this.


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Some facts from early on indicate to me they knew this was bigger than two girls murdered in a small town in Indiana, but the SW's threw me for a loop. I'd wondered why they were going after locals, in the first week after the murders. I think what spooked LE is A) Whatever Libby recorded on her cell phone, and B) The brazen act of criminality which occurred, I think LE were shocked at how quickly it was over with.

MOO is they assumed it was a local. After all, even a lot of locals had no idea the bridge was there until the murders happened, which is common with old, out-of-the-way abandoned railroad and industrial properties. MOO is the perp was banking on this, and the fact that, as RL stated in an interview early on, nothing bad had ever happened around that bridge, before, and I believe him. The perp probably figured that LE would first go after locals, which put even further distance between him and the crime. Does he live within 60-100 miles? Maybe. He could live a lot further away from that, even.

As others have noted, we have not just one, but two victims. Not many abduction crimes perpetrated even by SK's involve two victims, and one must wonder if this is not the perp's first rodeo. I stumbled upon the Colonial Parkway murders case on here the other day, and man is it spooky, but the MO is somewhat similar. Two victims were murdered in each case, which certainly is rare.

In those cases, the perp went from sloppy in his methods, to more organized and slick in his methods. Hate to say it, but MOO is the perp in this case in Delphi is experienced, and that is what really got to LE after the first several days, as in they knew it had to be an outsider, and a targeted set of murders.

By "targeted" I mean this is a SK who stalks his prey and goes after vulnerable women, perhaps all of them juveniles. The perp could have researched the bridge and the area around it, online, for months, or perhaps he has a list of kill spots he's researched. Perp visits, could be wearing his regular street clothes or whatever, recons the area, sees how busy it seems. MOO is he knew Delphi schools had the day off, and that was one of several factors which led to the murders, and another big one would have been the weather.

We haven't had even a PC in several weeks, now. I think LE knows it's a SK, perhaps one that has struck several times beforehand.
 
AmateurAnalyst73 said:
Agreed. This is my thinking(basically what you said)....in an area where a homicide victim is recovered, I would expect LE to collect EVERYTHING which doesn't naturally belong. Since this happens to be a fairly remote area which obviously(by what appear to be worn footpaths in videos made by JM and GH) gets some amount of traffic, and my own experience, having grown up near a similar creek that was a local hangout...I would assume that people maybe go here to play in the creek, maybe sneak the occasional cigarette or beer, and teens may even have sex in the area from time to time. It wouldn't be uncommon for kids, teens, or young adults, to discard a pair of cheap shoes(if they were soaked), or underwear(after maybe taking a dip in the deeper parts of the creek), cigarette butts, socks, etc. Anything like that which may have been found within a specific radius of the crime scene most likely would have been bagged and tagged, and may or may not have anything at all to do with the crime.
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Thank you for your post. It loosened up a little thing I remembered seeing way back in the beginning. When there were so many news articles& videos were first released there were either msm photos or video of the area and in a few you could actually see an old soda or love seat out in the woods near where people were being interviewed.
In some of the comments on the msm post I'm referring to , someone asked what in the world was a sofa doing there. Someone else responded that people dump trash and cast- offs in the area.
As I've not seen the soda in any pics or videos made by interested sluethers lately, I assume LE had to take all that mess, too.

Plus, the cast- off shoes that were pictured under the bridge. Not BG's or Abby's. I'm unable to locate the pic / pics / videos on this Tapatalk. Apologies.

Also, one of very early LE interviews or PC that I read the LEO asked for any information on anyone that may have been camping overnights in the trail area. He also asked for help from the public to get brand names or types of clothing, boots , etc that BG may have been wearing. A member mentioned the CC jacket that BG may have been wearing. I hope they called the top in.

JMO- - unable to provide links/post#'s at this time [emoji4]

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BessDrew said:
Did you see something somewhere that suggested he was the caretaker?


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I thought I did, it was sometime ago, I am trying to find where I saw this.
 
BarryManilow said:
Is what the court records "indicate" not speculation?
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Not in my opinion, because court records usually are based on fact and not speculation. Even if someone is accused and charges filed, it doesn't mean they are guilty but someone with repeated offenses of the same nature and has been convicted of same, I'm going to tend to find the criminal history credible. YMMV
 
BessDrew said:
I posted the news article with link which stated a neighbor found the bodies in the threads yesterday, but I didn't bookmark it. Did anyone else?


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Thank you for clearing that up for me :)

For some reason i thought I had read that volunteers had been sent further away to search so as not to destroy any possible evidence.
 
Falling Down said:
Some facts from early on indicate to me they knew this was bigger than two girls murdered in a small town in Indiana, but the SW's threw me for a loop. I'd wondered why they were going after locals, in the first week after the murders. I think what spooked LE is A) Whatever Libby recorded on her cell phone, and B) The brazen act of criminality which occurred, I think LE were shocked at how quickly it was over with.

MOO is they assumed it was a local. After all, even a lot of locals had no idea the bridge was there until the murders happened, which is common with old, out-of-the-way abandoned railroad and industrial properties. MOO is the perp was banking on this, and the fact that, as RL stated in an interview early on, nothing bad had ever happened around that bridge, before, and I believe him. The perp probably figured that LE would first go after locals, which put even further distance between him and the crime. Does he live within 60-100 miles? Maybe. He could live a lot further away from that, even.

As others have noted, we have not just one, but two victims. Not many abduction crimes perpetrated even by SK's involve two victims, and one must wonder if this is not the perp's first rodeo. I stumbled upon the Colonial Parkway murders case on here the other day, and man is it spooky, but the MO is somewhat similar. Two victims were murdered in each case, which certainly is rare.

In those cases, the perp went from sloppy in his methods, to more organized and slick in his methods. Hate to say it, but MOO is the perp in this case in Delphi is experienced, and that is what really got to LE after the first several days, as in they knew it had to be an outsider, and a targeted set of murders.

By "targeted" I mean this is a SK who stalks his prey and goes after vulnerable women, perhaps all of them juveniles. The perp could have researched the bridge and the area around it, online, for months, or perhaps he has a list of kill spots he's researched. Perp visits, could be wearing his regular street clothes or whatever, recons the area, sees how busy it seems. MOO is he knew Delphi schools had the day off, and that was one of several factors which led to the murders, and another big one would have been the weather.

We haven't had even a PC in several weeks, now. I think LE knows it's a SK, perhaps one that has struck several times beforehand.
Click to expand...

Interesting. At one point I thought the FBI said they had no reason to believe it was a SK (and that was after they had seen the video), so that (and the higher odds) had dissuaded me from thinking along those lines.

I do think the person could end up being "an extended local"--someone who lives within an hour or two drive, frequents the area, but doesn't own a house in Delphi perhaps.


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No, I posted the news article that said a neighbor found the bodies in yesterday's thread.

ETA: I just looked it up again and posted it below.:)

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asyousay said:
Thank you , so we don't know anything on the person who found the bodies ?
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I haven't found a name. And we aren't allowed to sleuth neighbors. Unless maybe we were to discover one of them also had a PC SW and we asked for permission.


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BessDrew said:
I haven't found a name. And we aren't allowed to sleuth neighbors. Unless maybe we were to discover one of them also had a PC SW and we asked for permission.


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Thanks for the warning , I don't want to be banned so I will shut up now :)
 
How many neighbors doesRL have?
3.

Are there cabins in there anywhere?
 
I agree; where I am from, we didn't have anything much different, even though I was right outside a pretty major metropolitan area (to which our parents had forbidden us to travel, lol!). Our 'hangouts' were a local bike path, a park, a hiking trail, and local restaurants that didn't throw kids out as long as they bought a Coke or something (not all that many when I was an adolescent). Considering all the time I and friends spent 'hanging out', you'd think the bike path would have *something* interesting, but really...no. I don't see much different with the trestle/bridge/path Abby & Libby had, and if I'd been a peer, I'd probably have gone out there all the time, too. I think it's more of a feeling of community -- kind of like, 'this is "our" place' -- than it is communing with Nature per se, but I do still think some creep could have catfished them on Failbook or IG, etc., and have had some credibility in asking to meet them at the bridge; given a similar situation, I probably would have allowed *more* credibility to a request to meet at the bike path bridge as a 13/14 yr old than I would have given to a request to meet at Denny's, or something. JMO
 
BessDrew said:
Interesting. At one point I thought the FBI said they had no reason to believe it was a SK (and that was after they had seen the video), so that (and the higher odds) had dissuaded me from thinking along those lines.

I do think the person could end up being "an extended local"--someone who lives within an hour or two drive, frequents the area, but doesn't own a house in Delphi perhaps.


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Click to expand...

A week after the murders the FBI (not sure of the exact named source) claimed that it was not the work of a SK.

That's where I believe another PC is in order, there are some basic things which LE need to address, here.

From Feb. 22/23:

http://www.idsnews.com/article/2017/02/audio-snippet-other-new-details-released-in-delphi-killings

"Whether the suspect is local or from elsewhere is still unknown, ISP Capt. Dave Bersten said. Massa noted his agency will be able to expand the investigation across state lines if necessary, and ISP Superintendent Douglas Carter said Gov. Eric Holcomb and FBI Director James Comey have been briefed on the case."
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I'm wondering if that's one of the reasons we haven't heard much, because the case is now officially across state lines. We won't know until LE tells us.
 
asyousay said:
I read that he knew the families and I assumed as the girls seemed to go there a fair bit that they would of crossed paths with him at some point considering where his land was.

:moo:
Click to expand...
I still never found out if RL went to the girls viewing or funeral services. Does anyone local know?
 
Falling Down said:
A week after the murders the FBI (not sure of the exact named source) claimed that it was not the work of a SK.

That's where I believe another PC is in order, there are some basic things which LE need to address, here.

From Feb. 22/23:

http://www.idsnews.com/article/2017/02/audio-snippet-other-new-details-released-in-delphi-killings



I'm wondering if that's one of the reasons we haven't heard much, because the case is now officially across state lines. We won't know until LE tells us.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I have wondered if and how their initial impressions have changed.


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BessDrew said:
I haven't found a name. And we aren't allowed to sleuth neighbors. Unless maybe we were to discover one of them also had a PC SW and we asked for permission.


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I'm probably the only one who didn't know this but I recently discovered that SWs are sometimes listed in the State of Indiana Public Courts Records.

For whatever reason, the one on RL's property is not listed but I was looking at someone else's records and it showed one warrant for a residence and another was a warrant for a phone. No info was given regarding the findings.

I have no idea what the court's criteria is for including Sws in a person's records.

A search warrant case number will have MC included (Miscellaneous Criminal)
 
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