IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #55

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IMO, if X assaults/shoots/strangles/runs over/etc. Y on date A, and Y dies on date A from injuries caused by the assault/shooting/etc. on date A, then X killed Y on date A, and Y died on date A.

If X assaults/shoots/etc. Z on date A, and Z dies a day, week, months, or years later BECAUSE OF those injuries, then Z died on date B from injuries suffered during an assault/shooting/etc. on date A.

Z wasn't killed on date A. Z suffered life-threatening injuries on date A and died on date B. X still killed Z, but not on date A.

IMO and all that good stuff.


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Quoting me back to me.

From the Washington Post, August 8, 2014: "Monday’s death of President Ronald Reagan’s press secretary James S. Brady has been ruled a homicide resulting from the gunshot wound he suffered in the assassination attempt on Reagan in 1981, more than three decades ago.

"The ruling was made by the medical examiner’s office in Virginia, where Brady, 73, died in an Alexandria retirement community, and was announced Friday by Gwendolyn Crump, the D.C. police department’s chief spokeswoman."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...6de224-1f41-11e4-82f9-2cd6fa8da5c4_story.html



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I nightmare dreamed night before last. About BG as well. How many of us do this?!?

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On one of the early threads we had a large consensus of members, many were seasoned WSers as well, who couldn't sleep, were having nightmares, were "afraid" and generally freaked out by this tragic case.

I dream or have nightmares about BG often. I still will not go out of my house at night. We live in rural farm country and it is dark and the quiet spooks me now instead of soothes.I cannot imagine living in Delphi right now.
 
On one of the early threads we had a large consensus of members, many were seasoned WSers as well, who couldn't sleep, were having nightmares, were "afraid" and generally freaked out by this tragic case.

I dream or have nightmares about BG often. I still will not go out of my house at night. We live in rural farm country and it is dark and the quiet spooks me now instead of soothes.I cannot imagine living in Delphi right now.

I keep hearing "down the hill" in my sleep. It was terrible when I was in hospital with an infection and sky high temperature I was fast asleep hearing "down the hill" on loop and the nurse touched my arm to take my temperature etc and I screamed. Thankfully I was in my own room but the nurse got a fright.

I can't begin to imagine what Abbey and Libby were going through when he said it to them.

I sympathise with all of you having dreams about BG we all want him caught badly ASAP. Even thousands of miles away the fact he is free walking the streets keeps me up at night. I can't imagine what the families and law enforcement are going through.
 
[video=twitter;858679155239661568]https://twitter.com/AlexisMcAdamsTV/status/858679155239661568[/video]

Weirdest thing, I'm on my laptop and I cannot see links from twitter accts. But, if I "reply with quotes," the link is right there in the box. So I read it. Just in case someone else may have trouble seeing twitter links. Thanks, I'll go back to lurking :lurk:
 
I keep hearing "down the hill" in my sleep. It was terrible when I was in hospital with an infection and sky high temperature I was fast asleep hearing "down the hill" on loop and the nurse touched my arm to take my temperature etc and I screamed. Thankfully I was in my own room but the nurse got a fright.

I can't begin to imagine what Abbey and Libby were going through when he said it to them.

I sympathise with all of you having dreams about BG we all want him caught badly ASAP. Even thousands of miles away the fact he is free walking the streets keeps me up at night. I can't imagine what the families and law enforcement are going through.

Your experience in the hospital gives me the shivers and yes, Abby and Libby, :frown: I can't imagine.

Absolutely relating to the "even thousands of miles away." I live in France for goodness sakes, it is utterly irrational for me to feel this kind of fear regarding this guy, but it is real nonetheless.
 
I was honestly curious thinking woah really?

her, thank you for responding in such large letters so I could easily read your post. My apologies if you found it offensive. In fact, I did request interested members to challenge the data. As a way of explaining the lack of links in the post, since I have Guillain-Barré syndrome, I was quite tired when the post was written. Hence, I do appreciate your posting links to contradict my assessment.

I have been to Indy numerous times, as I've mentioned on the threads before. The first visit was in the mid 1990s. Flyers were posted seeking assistance in locating a young lady's killer. She was a college student in Bloomington. On another business trip, within the same time frame, my hotel had pamphlets placed in the ladies restrooms for any female who was being led into trafficking so that she may learn that help was available. Even now, when I think about Indiana, it is with fondness of the little ditty Jack and Diane. These tragic murders will not change that particular pleasantry for me.

<modsnip>
 
<modsnip>

I'm also in the Midwest, Michigan in fact, and until Chicago (another city I've loved and lived) went especially wild, three or four of the top murders per capital cities were in Michigan. My hometown was number one for a few years. The Midwest isn't quite the sleepy idealic place many used to believe it was. A major reason for this has been the loss of so many factor jobs within the auto industry and otherwise. The worst unemployment rates were in the Midwest (with MI topping the list at the time things were at their worst with murder and crime). Often the big cities like Detroit, Cleveland, Indy had even higher unemployment rates than the general state-wide ones. I can't speak personally for Indiana but I assume as in so many larger cities racial divides are strong and poverty and blight are rampant. Cities struggle to afford adequate police, fire, and ambulances or as was so often told about Detroit, the city couldn't afford streetlights! Chicago and Detroit both had some notorious mismanagement and corrupt city leaders... so there's so many factors. A lot of those same factors no doubt relate to the massive drug issues that seem to be hitting the Midwest and especially Indiana so hard.

I'm not sure if I'd lump Delphi in with Indy since it's far enough away (get an hour outside of Detroit in any direction and it's a whole other world, similar again with so many of these larger struggling midwestern cities) and that is the thing. As bad as those few Michigan cities were with murder just living in the suburbs of any of them was so different and so much safer. But people do overtime seem to spread out from the cities- for safety, for racial reasons, for jobs, to escape poverty, etc. so I guess still pertinent. I'm sure you also saw in your reading there seemed to be a year where Delphi got a large number of new residents and around that very same time crime spiked considerably. I feel like this was 2011, 2012? I don't have the data in front of me but I found it very interesting and telling really. While crime tends to be much lower outside of the Indys, Detroits, Chicagos of the Midwest there's a lot of changing dynamics really everywhere due to the aftermath of the economic collapse and all those other things I mentioned above. It's a changing world and in many ways I think even moreso here in the Midwest than in many areas of the country.

Anyway I'm rambling but this kind of stuff is a general area of interest for me. I so love so many of these problematic Midwest cities and it breaks my heart to see them struggling so (though I can speak personally for MI and say I've seen a great deal of improvement and every time I'm in Detroit I'm blown away by how much is going on and changing for the better since I lived there a decade ago). Does beg the question though if improving the bigger cities just sends the crime elsewhere.


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Aropizt, this response is so eloquently written that I would not snip one word. <modsnip>

We are a diverse group yet we are connected in seeking out evil-doers and clues to help locate the missing. That is the marvel of Websleuths.
 
I just want to say this. I think we all know that an Order to Seal is a legal document applied to and filed with the Court.

"On March 28, 2017, State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney Robert T. Ives, filed a Petition to seal the autopsy reports concerning Abigail Williams and Liberty German. The Court, being duly advised, FINDS as follows: 1) On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana. "

BBM

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-47&p=13298390#post13298390

One the the reasons I've noticed mentioned why LE has not received a credible tip that will solve this case is because some people are distrustful of law enforcement and the judicial system in general.

If we here choose to believe the prosecutor who has access to the Autopsy Report is manipulating the English language in order to obscure the Date of Death and "killed" possibly means one if the girls was still alive on Feb 14th - doesn't that concern you as well considering this is intended to be a factual and legal document?

My opinion is that I don't think we are doing this case any justice to Abby and Libby by arguing facts just to suit our opinions.

As for the date of death indicated to be Feb 14th for Abby's memorial, it is common that some families believe their loved one is alive until the moment they find out otherwise. That is their right and I can understand why, in their hearts, she was still alive until the moment the bodies were found.


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How utterly disappointing
Doesn't mean though if there was a tipster out there,other county, that it wasn't credible imo I'm keeping my faith in that.and heck why would they tell us if the gathering was about the girls, especially if it was sensitive info, and they are keeping so much close to the vest, which I agree with. They realize people see cars there and people listen to scanners. Imo always

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[video=twitter;858679155239661568]https://twitter.com/AlexisMcAdamsTV/status/858679155239661568[/video]

Weirdest thing, I'm on my laptop and I cannot see links from twitter accts. But, if I "reply with quotes," the link is right there in the box. So I read it. Just in case someone else may have trouble seeing twitter links. Thanks, I'll go back to lurking :lurk:
Me too . How weird. I'm on a mobile phone JFTR.
 
Me too . How weird. I'm on a mobile phone JFTR.
I see em do you guys have Twitter app installed? I so and do not have an account and am on mobile. Maybe there is a Twitter setting to fix it.idk sorry I don't have app installed it directs me to mobile Twitter w no account, I'm installing to see if there is some setting for it in phone settings)

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I've seen a few comments asking why the police haven't released more and thought I'd give an opinion.
I think the police supplied the best enhanced pics from the video they could and the clearest audio they have.
My humble opinion of course
 
It's not the only logical explanation.

When a missing person is found deceased it is recorded they died on the day they were found. Whether is being 1 day, 3 days, 6 months, 5 years. Officially it may be determined exactly when they died or not. A date in an obit shouldn't be taken literally. One family may have chosen the date they were found, the other the date they were believed to have been killed/died. MOO

When my friend went missing, it was 6 months before he was found deceased. His official death is recorded as the date his body was found, although he died not long after he went missing.
I did say imo it was the only logical explanation in this case. Sorry about your friend. Was it natural causes? I understand about the obit dates but never realised that was down to choice before this case. I always thought the coroner determined that based on the post mortem, in UK anyway. In this case the girls have been found dead one day only after they went missing. We still don't know cause or time of death so it is still my speculation and opinion re. the TOD, with respect, until the autopsies are made public and it is known for certain.
 
I see em do you guys have Twitter app installed? I so and do not have an account and am on mobile. Maybe there is a Twitter setting to fix it.idk sorry I don't have app installed it directs me to mobile Twitter w no account, I'm installing to see if there is some setting for it in phone settings)

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Ot there is a setting in Twitter app. Click three lines > display > open external links in Twitter app. Hth)

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Just catching up <modsnip>

Delphi is a remarkable town, This community came together in the midst of unprecedented tragedy - the fundraisers, the decorative pizzas and the fancy green and orange Abby & Libby cookies, and the orange lanterns lighting up the town for justice. Both families were so gracious and grateful and warm in their grief; from Bumblebee's grandfather and great Aunt, her Grandparents who leave her presence in the home and her courageous mother calling out how these girls were their "precious possessions" to Libby's family, especially the strong and steady MP and his wife, speaking for both families and braving memorials without resorting to hate. These people are the salt of the earth in such devastating personal crisis. How can justice elude them?

Aside to Skibaboo "If you can dream it, it can be done" I'm beginning to feel optimistic. BG your time is coming to an end.
 
Found some interesting history. Maybe somehow it motivated the killer(s).

In 1939, on August 5, widow Ethel Raver married Theodore Fife and moved from Lafayette to Delphi with her family. On the morning of August 14, shortly after moving from Lafayette to their second-story apartment at the corner of Market and Franklin Street, she and two of her children, Bertha Raver, 14, and Dora Mae Raver, 22, were killed by fast freight 92, being pulled by Engine 2904, on the Wabash bridge at Delphi over Deer Creek (Mother and Two Girls Die in Trap at Rail Trestle). Bertha, 14, probably jumped and was found deceased 40 feet below the bridge, her head apparently having hit the “base of a cement abutment” (per Kokomo Tribune). Dora Mae, 22, was killed quickly, having been horribly mangled by the train. Ethel Raver Fife's back was severely cut and bruised by the passing freight as she tried to lie down between the tracks, and Mrs. Fife, 50, died a few hours later after having been removed from the bridge and taken by ambulance to Lafayette Home Hospital, where her right leg was amputated in unsuccessful effort to save her life. Mrs. Fife indicated before dying that she and her daughters had heard the train but thought they could get across before its arrival.

True, the Wabash bridge over Deer Creek (just southwest of Delphi) is different from the Monon bridge over Deer Creek (just east of Delphi). But one newspaper article, on the front page of the August 14, 1939, Logansport Pharos Tribune, explains why they were on the Wabash bridge:

The three local residents were enroute from Delphi to the home of Mrs. Fife's father-in-law, Charles Fife, in West Delphi, to do a washing, and they believed they were on the Monon [emphasis added] railroad instead of the Wabash. The two railroads cross in Delphi and they had followed the wrong track, having resided in Lafayette until recently and being unfamiliar with the city, it was reported.

According to the Pharos-Tribune of August 18, 1939, the 1939 victims were buried at the Paint Creek Cemetery east of Camden.

At midnight on May 25, 1918, German sympathizers may have tried to burn up the same Wabash RR Bridge over Deer Creek [The Richmond Item, May 29, 1918].
 
"Police have received over 16,000 tips and are still actively investigating over 500 people in the case."

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/delphi-daughters-take-1-minute-for-justice
actively investigating over 500 people in the case

This staggering fact accentuates my point. A small town of 3000 residents where two young girls are murdered has found LE actively investigating 500 people for the crimes! Obviously, not all 500 reside in Delphi so, no tomatoes, please.
 
I see em do you guys have Twitter app installed? I so and do not have an account and am on mobile. Maybe there is a Twitter setting to fix it.idk sorry I don't have app installed it directs me to mobile Twitter w no account, I'm installing to see if there is some setting for it in phone settings)

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I see you're using Tapatalk which probably fixes it for you.
 
I see you're using Tapatalk which probably fixes it for you.
I don't think so, I opened them last week, just got on tapa a few days ago. I'll search for other solutions.

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