IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #55

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This case is colder than the ice cream in my freezer. Thought so from the beginning. I don't even think the guy in the picture from the original posts is involved. The audio guy might be someone else. I think it's a different guy. He sounds younger to me than the guy in the picture. Either way, case sounds cold sadly. No cause of death ever released. Not sure the DNA the FBI has on file. That will solve the case. Might be a few years? We just had a case solved here in JAX with DNA after 30 years of a young boy their age. Took a long time. Killer was smart.
 
Thanks for the reply! So it is possible BG catfished the girls and left no trace as well as accessing the dark web to possibly view or post images?

(long-winded post ahead, but I'll try to stay within ToS)

MOO is there's a possibility he was able to lurk, and maybe even lured them somehow. I'm leaning towards lurk on a SM site or multiple sites, MSM reports indicate Libby had multiple SM accounts. It's pure speculation on mine or others' parts, but it's perfectly plausible.

MOO is at the very least, the perp knew Delphi schools had the day off. Perp knew the area where he was going to do his misdeeds that day, perhaps had visited the area before. He lurks on SM, seeing who checks in to the trail/park/bridge area, while hiding near or at the spot where the girls were killed (pure speculation on my part, for all I know he was in a vehicle in the cemetery when the girls got to the trail head). Libby 'checks in' on one or more SM accounts, or at the very least (and this is a big one) the perp saw the first image she posted (the one from the NW end of the bridge), then the one of Abby which uploaded at 2:07PM.

Far as the perp taking photographs or video, folks here speculated early on that could have happened, after all, how many cases here at WS have we seen where perps take images of their victims? Not many, but there are quite a few cases of serial killers doing just that, going all the back to the 70's.

After this case hit the news, I researched cases where LE were frustrated by SM, and how often it's used these days in crimes. Some of the more popular sites are based at various places around the world, so it's very difficult for LE to get warrants and court orders to do searches of users of those sites. SnapChat is based in Canada. SnapChat is notorious for requiring very little information to become a member. Those two factors alone have made it difficult for LE in other countries to get information off of SnapChat servers, although SC's management have been more cooperative in recent years, after balking at allowing LE outside of Canada to have access to their information the first several years they were in business.

Switching gears, I keep going back to other cases which have been covered, in-depth, here at WS. The Israel Keyes case keeps popping into my head, as I follow these threads about the Delphi case. I've watched a few YouTube videos about him, and, as many here have noted, when interviewed he was calm and downright friendly with the investigators, at least to a certain point, while at the same time elusive about any details of murders he was involved in. He explained his deeds in a manner which someone might order coffee, cool as a cucumber. Yet Keyes, like all of these other freak killers, was a control freak of the worst order, but in his case he was able to keep it under control to some degree, living a double life.

Keyes admitted to using Google to search for victims, surveil the areas he would abduct people, etc. These killings were after the murders in the parks he'd done when he was younger, Keyes (like so many other serial killers) 'graduated' to more sophisticated crimes. It was never revealed how he was able to do this w/o being detected, Keyes started using his home computer for searches regarding his own killings only in the months previous to when he was arrested in Texas. He got sloppy, as they say, and he admitted as such. So the FBI had only 'x' number of months' worth of internet activity to go by, in their case against him, as he'd used methods of using the internet known only to him up to that point, and now he's dead.

So if this killer used SM, they might have been able to do it w/o anyone being able to attach an e-mail, IP address, etc., to them, specifically.

SM or no use of SM, either way, I'm working off the assumption this killer is much more sophisticated, and smarter, than a lot of folks first believed. I'm leaning towards SM, this killer was looking for a certain demographic to abduct, and perhaps was looking for two victims. How did he know there were two victims at the bridge, that day? The image uploaded at 2:07 PM to SC.revealed two people were making their way to the SE end of the bridge, probably both juveniles, with noone behind them.

In my mind, I see BG either A) At the final killing spot, either surveilling the bridge or doing that and checking a smart phone, or B) At the cemetery, at the back of it, in a vehicle. I don't know if the drive into the trailhead area is visible from there, but at any rate I see BG possibly at the cemetery, in a vehicle, checking SM.

JMO
 
Any news from the case? Thanks


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What if the suspect is dead and this is why anyone who would recognize him just blows that off?

He could have killed him self or not. I thought of this the first week but have not revisited that much.

I'm just trying to think of reasons why nobody that we know of, has ID'd him.
 
Since day one - IMO - I think these girls being killed was personal.
Don't ask me if I know anything - I don't, it's just my "gut". IMO - really? There was a random killer in broad daylight?
 
That was random because there is not connection between the killer and the girls.


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I may be wishful thinking but I am hoping the vague statement "Optimism isn't high" is a play on counterintelligence some sort of PSYOPS action. This would keep the suspect(s) in a calmer state while collecting more evidence.
Highly doubtful, IMO. The statement occurred during a brief radio interview which began with the discussion of another case. In addition to his candor about their lack of progress, the ISP captain describes the team of investigators as still committed, mentions that tips are still coming in, and verifies that they have more video and audio evidence that has not been released. Hardly what I would expect from someone engaged in a "PSYOPS action" to put the suspect at ease. If anything, he was probably candid about their optimism (or lack thereof) because he wants the public to know LE really does need more tips, in case anyone is holding back.
 
If someone knows who BG is and wants to remain anonymous because it is someone close to them and they are afraid of retribution they should have a lawyer call in their tip so that they have proof and can get the reward. They would have to be interviewed by LE of course but this could be done discreetly too. I think most people would donate the reward money to the families of the girls.

I agree, most people would donate the reward money to the family or a worthy nonprofit organization.

The problem with abuse victims is generally their circle of supports in nonexitance. If they were likely to contact a lawyer to forward a tip, they'd use that courage to make that same phone call and exit their personal situation as well. Unfortunately their self confidence becomes so damaged that day-to-day survival is often as best as they can manage.

But I do wonder if that's the reason LE continues to communicate their gentle pleas for tips, to reach out to vulnerable people who might otherwise choose not to become involved.

I'm not suggesting this is why LE hasn't yet got that tip they're looking for but anyone capable of killing innocent children out for a pleasure walk clearly is a vicious criminal who's equally dangerous to members of their own family.
 
I take the blame for any creek house discussion. I thought RL said either Greek house or creek house. Apparently it was neither and I was mishearing him say "brick" house.

I did say imo it was the only logical explanation in this case. Sorry about your friend. Was it natural causes? I understand about the obit dates but never realised that was down to choice before this case. I always thought the coroner determined that based on the post mortem, in UK anyway. In this case the girls have been found dead one day only after they went missing. We still don't know cause or time of death so it is still my speculation and opinion re. the TOD, with respect, until the autopsies are made public and it is known for certain.
we do know that they both died on the 13th.
 
The one big thing I have noticed is no women in sight on the investigation team . I admit I may have missed them but as it relates to two murdered girls I would have thought there would be more female faces. Also, and I know we have talked the aris of this but if one of the girls died after midnight, it would explain the devastation felt by LE, as they did not treat it as an Amber alert and called the search off at midnight. I still do not understand that tbh.
Eta. While I'm on the criticising LE bandwagon, it is about time they released TOD, COD and confirm if they were murdered where they were found or off site. As you say J there's not much point holding it back now.

There was a female FBI agent on the case


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Highly doubtful, IMO. The statement occurred during a brief radio interview which began with the discussion of another case. In addition to his candor about their lack of progress, the ISP captain describes the team of investigators as still committed, mentions that tips are still coming in, and verifies that they have more video and audio evidence that has not been released. Hardly what I would expect from someone engaged in a "PSYOPS action" to put the suspect at ease. If anything, he was probably candid about their optimism (or lack thereof) because he wants the public to know LE really does need more tips, in case anyone is holding back.

What possible "tips" could LE still be receiving? What are these tipsters going on? It's been over two months!
 
What if the suspect is dead and this is why anyone who would recognize him just blows that off?

He could have killed him self or not. I thought of this the first week but have not revisited that much.

I'm just trying to think of reasons why nobody that we know of, has ID'd him.
Or he could have been killed by whoever assisted him. When the picture of the BG came out it could have put the second person in jeopardy by association. Someone knows who did this!!
 
Falling Down, you have such a nice post on the previous page and I hope to ask a question about one little part. The part about Israel Keyes using Google to find his victims. I followed his case until the nightmares drove me away. The one thing that was horrific about him was that he killed random people. Like a hunter waiting for a deer to cross his path.

So maybe you can find a link for me where he says he researched his victims? Then I can quit thinking about that part when I'm out hiking. :blushing:

http://q13fox.com/2012/12/04/serial...let-them-victims-come-to-me-in-a-remote-area/

“If I was smart, I would do it, I would let them come to me in a remote area,” Keyes said. “I would go to a remote area that’s not anywhere near where you live but that other people go to, as well. You might not get exactly what you’re (looking for in a victim) … there’s not much to choose from, in a matter of speaking, but there’s also no witnesses, really. There’s nobody else around.”

http://altereddimensions.net/2013/serial-killer-israel-keyes-body-count-may-never-be-known

"FBI Special Agent Jolen Goeden said that the biggest surprise to her in the case, was how detailed Keyes was. She told reporters, “Keyes was very methodical, very detailed. There was a tremendous amount of planning that went into these crimes.”

According to Keyes, his usual routine would be to fly to some area of the country, rent a vehicle, and then drive thousands of miles to find victims (investigators have proven that Keyes traveled to Canada often, to Mexico in 2007 and 2008, and to Belize in 2005). Keyes said he often found his victims in campgrounds, parks, rural unpopulated areas and even cemeteries. While in the area of the murder, Keyes would turn off his mobile cell phone and paid for all items with cash. His victims were always random, differing in sex, age, and appearance."
 
Or he could have been killed by whoever assisted him. When the picture of the BG came out it could have put the second person in jeopardy by association. Someone knows who did this!!

IMO he was working alone, waiting for someone, no matter if was girl or boy, like a snake with a small animal.


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Falling Down, you have such a nice post on the previous page and I hope to ask a question about one little part. The part about Israel Keyes using Google to find his victims. I followed his case until the nightmares drove me away. The one thing that was horrific about him was that he killed random people. Like a hunter waiting for a deer to cross his path.

So maybe you can find a link for me where he says he researched his victims? Then I can quit thinking about that part when I'm out hiking. :blushing:

http://q13fox.com/2012/12/04/serial...let-them-victims-come-to-me-in-a-remote-area/

“If I was smart, I would do it, I would let them come to me in a remote area,” Keyes said. “I would go to a remote area that’s not anywhere near where you live but that other people go to, as well. You might not get exactly what you’re (looking for in a victim) … there’s not much to choose from, in a matter of speaking, but there’s also no witnesses, really. There’s nobody else around.”

http://altereddimensions.net/2013/serial-killer-israel-keyes-body-count-may-never-be-known

"FBI Special Agent Jolen Goeden said that the biggest surprise to her in the case, was how detailed Keyes was. She told reporters, “Keyes was very methodical, very detailed. There was a tremendous amount of planning that went into these crimes.”

According to Keyes, his usual routine would be to fly to some area of the country, rent a vehicle, and then drive thousands of miles to find victims (investigators have proven that Keyes traveled to Canada often, to Mexico in 2007 and 2008, and to Belize in 2005). Keyes said he often found his victims in campgrounds, parks, rural unpopulated areas and even cemeteries. While in the area of the murder, Keyes would turn off his mobile cell phone and paid for all items with cash. His victims were always random, differing in sex, age, and appearance."
How terrifying!! I am sure there are others just as bad or worse always trying to stay a few steps ahead of LE. If BG is a serial killer the public will have to turn him in if no DNA is on file or he will kill again in 5 years on the 13th of some month after his cooling off period. Moo
 
I was just thinking about that wording of "killed on the 13th" versus "died on the 13th" this morning Shiressleuth. I still believe there is wiggle room between the two statements given that we have two different dates for their obituaries. And, yes, I completely understand that families may choose. But it is also possible that the families just went with what the coroner's report (possibly) indicated.

Example: two people were killed in a car crash on Monday night - one was pronounced dead at the scene, the other died later in the hospital (which could have ended up being the early morning hours of Tuesday). I think a report might say that both people were killed on Monday but died at different times.

I could be wrong and that's okay. Not meaning to frustrate people, just thinking out loud.

This is from what I read.

Killed’ suggests that the death was not due to natural causes. For example, when you say, `The minister was killed in her sleep’, it suggests the person was murdered while she was asleep. Someone did something that resulted in the minister’s death – maybe the person stabbed/shot/smothered the minister while she was sleeping. `Kill’ suggests that the death was caused by some external agency — it was not natural.


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I take the blame for any creek house discussion. I thought RL said either Greek house or creek house. Apparently it was neither and I was mishearing him say "brick" house.

This is a question for several posters...if LE thinks they know who BG is, then why hasn't he been located, arrested, announced, etc. also, they are still asking for tips and have been issuing search warrants for all sorts of different people. I'm just curious why so many think they know who he is. I'm missing something. Tia!


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do you know of search warrants issued since the march 17th search at RL's?
 
we do know that they both died on the 13th.

How do we know that for sure? I know that the date on the obituary is not necessarily the date each of the girls died but I haven't seen anything to indicate for sure that they both died on the 13th. I think they probably both did but there is a possibility it could have been on two separate days. IMO.
 
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