IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #58

[whiskers]

So do we think Delphi residents feel much safer now since RL is in the slammer? I'm curious what residents think.

Maybe they can breathe a sigh of relief and enjoy a fun bbq on Memorial day since he's off the streets.

 

[Jennifer17]

I kind of canhe 't get out of my head that LE thing about it have a 'twist'. That really bothers me. What kind of a twist? Does that mean that he didn't rape one or both in the conventional way that girls are raped? Did he use an object to rape one or either of them? Impotent men have been know to do that.

 

[DeDee]

As in teacher, coach, fireman, LEO, etc? IMO

Or someone who teaches dogs to hunt would give strict orders with a stern voice.

 

[Tricia]

Getting ready to close for the night in just a bit

 

[midwestseeker]

Or tied to a tree.

Yes, the tied to a tree thought also crossed my mind as someone mentioned SK Larry Hall in a thread weeks ago. Angie Housman here in my area was found that way. I have always suspected Larry Hall in that case. I hope this case does not grow as cold as this seems to be. All MOO

 

[midwestseeker]

I've shared this story before, but no, when doing a search, you really don't necessarily look UP. I was involved in a search once, in winter, at night, where we didn't look up and the individual had hung themselves pretty high up. Right above the command post. Directly above. No one noticed until returning from the search in the morning.

Edited to add: forgot another daytime search in which the individual had hung themselves in their own backyard. There was a suicide note and we were searching the woods near the house. His poor wife found him a few hours after the search started. My fire department has learned to look up now, but seriously, it just isn't a natural inclination.

Exactly!! Thank you for conveying in better detail why this thought had occurred to me.

 

[Dawning3]

I kind of canhe 't get out of my head that LE thing about it have a 'twist'. That really bothers me. What kind of a twist? Does that mean that he didn't rape one or both in the conventional way that girls are raped? Did he use an object to rape one or either of them? Impotent men have been know to do that.

I never thought there was a deeper meaning to LE talking about a "twist" than the fact that Libby recorded the killer. That, in itself, is a pretty big twist.


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[Rott Mom]

Getting ready to close for the night in just a bit

I have no idea if you're a mom or not...but, "Happy Mother's Day" to you and all the mods.

 

[Tricia]

Happy Mother's Day Everyone,

Thread is closed for the night.

G'night.

Tricia

 

[St. Anthony2017]

I try to stay focused on the facts, and do "roll and scroll" past the posts that seem a bit far-fetched.

I have not seriously considered the Delphi girls to have have any connection to the Iowa cousins killings. For starters, I was thinking it was too far away.

But what do I know?

So few details have been released to the public.

Justice for Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins slips away more each day. It makes me SO SAD how young they were when they were killed.

Other than the some kind of similarity in the dates and manipulating the numbers around (not sure I buy that), being found outdoors near bodies of water, and being a double murder, what other evidence is available as similarities between these crimes?

The DNA found may hold the key if it matches Iowa case.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

By that, I am thinking you are saying, this is someone incarcerated for a crime related to young girls, and released? If so, it makes sense to me.

Yes, the mask comes off when they think no one important to them is looking. Libby put a roadblock on that plan, and the world is alerted to an image. Yet, no identification by anyone. Surely his mother, surely a friend, someone, would get it, see the picture, and call in the tip. Why aren't they?

Maybe they did and we don't know yet.

 

[JudgeJudi]

JMO but I think the autopsies are sealed because of the way these poor girls were murdered and likely the murderer and maybe an accomplice will know the how, what and where. Something tells me the girls were attacked in more than one way, i.e stabbed etc. If they were strangled the murderer knows what he used. JMO
But LE brought up, "was it "a" or "the" twist" to this case?

I hope this helps.

The sealing of autopsy reports in Indiana:

"This report describes states' laws that directly address the disclosure of crime scene photographs, autopsy reports, and 911 tapes and transcripts.

Table 2 below describes state statutes that directly address the disclosure of autopsy reports. The table does not include confidentiality provisions that apply in some states (e.g., Louisiana) to records of child fatality review teams in their investigation of child deaths.

Table 2: State Statutes that Directly Address Disclosure of Autopsy Reports

Indiana

Full report (except photo/video/audio) disclosable to:

• Specified family members,
• Insurance company, and
• Certain state agencies/entities.

Limited information available to public.

Prosecutor can ask court to prohibit a coroner from disclosing if disclosure likely to harm criminal investigation (Anyone can petition court to modify or terminate such an order.)"

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/rpt/2013-R-0364.htm

 

[MistyWaters]

I never thought there was a deeper meaning to LE talking about a "twist" than the fact that Libby recorded the killer. That, in itself, is a pretty big twist.


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That's been my thought as well. Even though the photo isn't clear enough to conclusively identify anyone, it's still extremely helpful to the case. One of the things I'm most curious about is if LE has determined how it was that Libby took the video. If it was intentional, did she add narrative? Did she leave the video on maybe in her pocket and it may have recorded verbal interaction between her and Abby also, then later the "down the hill"? Purely speculation but LE may know exactly what transpired, just that they haven't yet identified the character/s. That would be a real twist in my opinion, to know exactly what occured in advance to locating the perpetrator.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Or he's a professional.

Even professionals make mistakes sometimes e.g photo and voice clip. Hopefully this will be his final job before LE forces his retirement.

 

[Maplesyrup]

That's been my thought as well. Even though the photo isn't clear enough, it's still extremely helpful to the case. One of the things I'm most curious about is if LE has determined how it was that Libby took the video. If it was intentional, did she add narrative? Did she leave the video on maybe in her pocket and it may have recorded verbal interaction between her and Abby also, then later the "down the hill"? Purely speculation but LE may know exactly what transpired, just that they haven't yet identified the character/s. That would be a real twist in my opinion, to know exactly what occured in advance to locating the perpetrator.

I've also wondered about this. If Libby was concerned enough to turn the video on, I'm wondering if there may have been some initial comments along the lines of "Abby! Look! It's that creepy guy again! He's coming this way!" Not necessarily yelled but in a conspiratorial tone loud enough that Abby could hear her, and there would be urgency in Libby's voice. The girls would be on high alert but as many posters have said, they were somewhat trapped on the bridge and no time to make a plan about what to do. Those initial comments may not be captured on Libby's video simply because she had just sensed the danger, alerted her friend and then thought to start the video recording. The words captured may have been more of "come on, lets' get out of here, he's moving faster!" Those types of comments [all purely my speculation] would tell LE a lot. They would know it was him that frightened them and would hear their attempt at moving quickly away from BG. If he then pulled a gun to stop them from fleeing, that would probably cause the girls to scream to each other and maybe at him to not shoot, etc. I would agree that LE has a good idea how the event unfolded. All IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

I've also wondered about this. If Libby was concerned enough to turn the video on, I'm wondering if there may have been some initial comments along the lines of "Abby! Look! It's that creepy guy again! He's coming this way!" Not necessarily yelled but in a conspiratorial tone loud enough that Abby could hear her, and there would be urgency in Libby's voice. The girls would be on high alert but as many posters have said, they were somewhat trapped on the bridge and no time to make a plan about what to do. Those initial comments may not be captured on Libby's video simply because she had just sensed the danger, alerted her friend and then thought to start the video recording. The words captured may have been more of "come on, lets' get out of here, he's moving faster!" Those types of comments [all purely my speculation] would tell LE a lot. They would know it was him that frightened them and would hear their attempt at moving quickly away from BG. If he then pulled a gun to stop them from fleeing, that would probably cause the girls to scream to each other and maybe at him to not shoot, etc. I would agree that LE has a good idea how the event unfolded. All IMO.

That's where my imagination takes me as well. There could be a "Who is that?" and "I don't know" which prompted the FBI billboards. Because LE has released so little information we can only guess however we know they've said they have more but can't release it. But what they do know, that we don't, I think is the reason LE was able to sift through those 18000 tips fairly quickly.

If the perp was someone whom they didn't recognize, I also wonder if at first they thought it was some jerk who wanted to steal Libby's cellphone because he noticed Libby taking the video on the bridge. So upon fleeing, as an act of defiance, she threw it in the river to make sure he couldn't have it. Although cell phone theft wasn't his intent, her wise action served to preserve valuable evidence. ....only one of a dozen of my theories.

ETA: Libby's grandfather said she was "a strong-willed girl".

 

[Shiressleuth]

Jethro stated yesterday that the creek had a depth of 3.5 feet on Feb 13th. As most posters believe there was no other crime scene how did the girls get across and end up on the opposite bank?

 

[MistyWaters]

Jethro stated yesterday that the creek had a depth of 3.5 feet on Feb 13th. As most posters believe there was no other crime scene how did the girls get across and end up on the opposite bank?

They might have swam across? My experience is most people who grow up in a town near a river also swim in it, especially teenagers. There's always what's known as at least on "swimming hole". Perhaps there are areas of treacherous undercurrents but it's likely everyone knows to avoid those certain places. It's a part of small town life. While the water would've been extremely cold in Feb, if they were being pursued, perhaps they choose to take a chance to make a break away because of their familiarity with the river? MOO

 

[Danke]

Jethro stated yesterday that the creek had a depth of 3.5 feet on Feb 13th. As most posters believe there was no other crime scene how did the girls get across and end up on the opposite bank?

Yes! I spent an hour last night watching the videos that people have taken of the area. I don't believe they were moved to another location and then brought back to be "dumped" so close to the original CS. The only thing I can come up with is maybe they tried to run across the creek to get away and he caught up with them.


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[Maplesyrup]

Yes! I spent an hour last night watching the videos that people have taken of the area. I don't believe they were moved to another location and then brought back to be "dumped" so close to the original CS. The only thing I can come up with is maybe they tried to run across the creek to get away and he caught up with them.


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All he had to do was catch one of them. Maybe one tripped and fell or twisted an ankle running and couldn't move fast or at all. Once he had one he could threaten to shoot the one he had under his control if the other one tried to run away. So maybe one girl did make it across the creek to the other bank and felt compelled to wait for her friend to be dragged at gunpoint through the water to that opposite creekbank where the other girl waited, terrified for herself and her best friend. And the crime scene unfolded there.