IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #58

[Blue Amethyst]

Let us suppose, for a moment, that it was a father and son team + perhaps the son's girlfriend who later ends up dead on the same day that ISP releases the images pulled from the video. Girlfriend freaks out over the exposure to the images. Boyfriend accidentally shoots her. Hence, only two know about the crime = father and son. Well, and perhaps also the person who wanted this to happen. None of the three would talk but they may give themselves away using a different but common method. Think SM.
For those who wish, this is my :cow:

I have also wondered about this.

 

[tuffgongc9]

Jethro stated yesterday that the creek had a depth of 3.5 feet on Feb 13th. As most posters believe there was no other crime scene how did the girls get across and end up on the opposite bank?

If you watch a video that retraces their steps and ends up at the waters edge you can see there are all sorts of differing depths, rocks, trees and sandbars. The one I watched was obviously weeks later and I don't know how the official depth would have changed, but at that this later time it was possible to get to the middle of the creek without even getting an ankle wet. Swimming would have been completely unnecessary. If they crossed the creek carefully and intently the very worst would have been water up to their knees. If the water was much higher in February then this could definitely change, however.

I can't remember the name of the video, but it was a woman and her husband who retraced the steps over the bridge and then down to the creek. Also, I would urge anyone who has not watched the crime scene flow by Gray Hughes to do so. It's very helpful in visualizing how this may have happened.

 

[Jax49]

Just thinking, wouldn't the creek rocks be really slippery? I've been team southeast but it doesn't seem it would have been a route planned by BG. Rethinking. moo

 

[NotToday]

Yes. I agree with this. It seems more rigid than grocery store bags and I also agree with the repositioning his arms.I think that it was a rapid movement that made the rope pop out. Reaching for a gun in his pocket?

If that is in fact a gun it has serious weight to it. If unholstered he most likely had to keep his right hand higher than normal to prevent the guns movement while walking. I've had an upholstered S&W 9 and I can tell you it will flop around. The image IMO would be as large or larger than a S&W 9mm semi.

 

[Shiressleuth]

If you watch a video that retraces their steps and ends up at the waters edge you can see there are all sorts of differing depths, rocks, trees and sandbars. The one I watched was obviously weeks later and I don't know how the official depth would have changed, but at that this later time it was possible to get to the middle of the creek without even getting an ankle wet. Swimming would have been completely unnecessary. If they crossed the creek carefully and intently the very worst would have been water up to their knees. If the water was much higher in February then this could definitely change, however.

I can't remember the name of the video, but it was a woman and her husband who retraced the steps over the bridge and then down to the creek. Also, I would urge anyone who has not watched the crime scene flow by Gray Hughes to do so. It's very helpful in visualizing how this may have happened.

3.5 feet would not be just up to the girls knees but above their waists. If you see helicopter footage and the searchers linking arms to cross and search the Creek this gives a good idea. It is above their waists as they go across It cannot be described as ankle deep. They could not have run across IMO.
Also if they were being pursued it could have been treacherous and even more difficult. Take a look at the helicopter footage to see the depth on the 14th and the currents swirling around as the searchers slowly move across.

 

[raja]

All he had to do was catch one of them. Maybe one tripped and fell or twisted an ankle running and couldn't move fast or at all. Once he had one he could threaten to shoot the one he had under his control if the other one tried to run away. So maybe one girl did make it across the creek to the other bank and felt compelled to wait for her friend to be dragged at gunpoint through the water to that opposite creekbank where the other girl waited, terrified for herself and her best friend. And the crime scene unfolded there.

Or he could have shot the one running while he held the other. One may have died immediately.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Or he could have shot the one running while he held the other. One may have died immediately.

I thought that but didn't want to say. He could also have done it from the south side as they tried to get up the north side to get away. Having swum/waded/ struggled across the creek. He may not even have crossed the creek himself. If he did not cross- no DNA .

 

[kat913]

Perhaps the crime scene tape was put there because there was evidence at that exact spot...where he may have enetered bridge and girls quickly moved to northend of bridge and down the hill to the crime scene.

Jusdt another explanation of why crime scene tape at southend.

I am on northend team...am I alone!!!


My opinion only of course!

 

[Shiressleuth]

Perhaps the crime scene tape was put there because there was evidence at that exact spot...where he may have enetered bridge and girls quickly moved to northend of bridge and down the hill to the crime scene.

Jusdt another explanation of why crime scene tape at southend.

I am on northend team...am I alone!!!


My opinion only of course!

If I can be convinced how they all got across Creek then I would be southend team. If I knew who the other hikers were I could be north end.

 

[MistyWaters]

I thought that but didn't want to say. He could also have done it from the south side as they tried to get up the north side to get away. Having swum/waded/ struggled across the creek. He may not even have crossed the creek himself. If he did not cross- no DNA .

If so, that would indeed make it a very tough case to solve.

 

[asyousay]

I can only picture the girls being lead away on the south side. We also have the Down the hill comment and right where Libby is a hilly embankment. I think he lead them straight down there.


No way did this person walk both of them back along the bridge to the north side. He got them off the bridge as soon as he could which is he why attacked at the end of the bridge and not on the middle.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Both pairs snatched in broad daylight without screams or obvious signs of a struggle.
Indicates to me a possible similar MO.
Maybe flashing a fake badge would do it?

It's the One thing kids are taught to always respect.
This event seems well planned- meticulous. The fake cop gambit would be almost unbeatable vs two kids & fits in w someone who plans things out to a T.

we don't know if they did not scream or put up a struggle.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Unless they can id the weapon.
Eta. This was replying to Misty Waters post that said it could be a difficult case to solve.

 

[Burnt Toast]

The DNA found may hold the key if it matches Iowa case.

i did not realize that DNA was collected in the Iowa murders.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Jethro stated yesterday that the creek had a depth of 3.5 feet on Feb 13th. As most posters believe there was no other crime scene how did the girls get across and end up on the opposite bank?

the creek was as shallow as ankle deep if you knew where to cross. A local familiar with the area would now right where to cross, making it very easy simply walk across without barely getting wet.

 

[margarita25]

Yes! I spent an hour last night watching the videos that people have taken of the area. I don't believe they were moved to another location and then brought back to be "dumped" so close to the original CS. The only thing I can come up with is maybe they tried to run across the creek to get away and he caught up with them.


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Makes sense...

 

[gregjrichards]

i did not realize that DNA was collected in the Iowa murders.

Law enforcement have never revealed if they have DNA or cause of death in Elizabeth and Lyric's case. Given the length of time that passed until they were found I would imagine having DNA would be very unlikely.

 

[Shiressleuth]

the creek was as shallow as ankle deep if you knew where to cross. A local familiar with the area would now right where to cross, making it very easy simply walk across without barely getting wet.

I don't think that was likely on the 13th. What makes you think that?

 

[Maplesyrup]

the creek was as shallow as ankle deep if you knew where to cross. A local familiar with the area would now right where to cross, making it very easy simply walk across without barely getting wet.

I am not sure the depth of the creek close to the bridge. Maybe they went "down the hill" took off for the creek and crossed at a point the girls knew was shallow. Ran up along the north side through the trees trying to outrun him. If one girl fell he would grab her, control her with a weapon, and corral the other girl using threats and a menacing tone of voice/aggression. IMO only

 

[Falling Down]

Folks have brought up water levels on the creek.

At the end of this GH video, around 13:54 or so, it transitions from JM's great video to a MSM video from a station in Indy, taken within 4 days of the murders, from the general vicinity of the CS. Quite a difference in water depth, I must say.

[video=youtube;DZzBCyLSI0E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZzBCyLSI0E[/video]