IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #59

[WebSight]

IIRC .... we are not sure when this was recorded in relation to the crime. Many sleuthers feel his voice is controlled and commanding.
When I listened to this again, I hear " they're down the hill"
almost as if BG is speaking to someone other than the girls.
Maybe BG had Libby's phone in his possession at some time.

Question: Could the video and the voice loop have been saved by LE from iCloud? And not directly from the phone itself?
If so, he may not have known it was recording

JMO and it changes

To address your question :
If the video and sound recording were on any kind of cloud, the family and LE would have known the night they went missing that they were in danger. When the search was called off around midnight due to darkness, LE stated that they felt the girls were not in any danger except from the elements. I cannot see that they could make that statement, being able to access the cloud, if the cloud had the audio/video on it.

Additionally, a special team was brought in to extract the audio/video from Libby's phone after the girls were found. That to me says that LE has her phone and I suspect that the phone was damaged requiring a special team to extract them, otherwise they would have just played both. jmo.

 

[Wild Rose]

Thinking back to what looks like some sort of scarf on BG, if a scarf, perhaps covers a neck area tattoo?

 

[Daae]

On February 9th Delphi received it's first snowfall of the year. On February 11th this video of the area was posted of drone footage. I am NOT suggesting that this video poster had anything to do with the crime, but this video does reveal some interesting details:

-It was probably filmed about 72 hours before the crime and available for BG to see.
-During the filming only it does not appear to be a busy walking spot.
-The creek appears to be shallow.
-There are areas along the banks that are private and fairly flat.

If BG is not a resident of the Delphi immediate area then do we think he may have scoped out the place in the days leading up to the murders?

Is LE questioning people who visited the spot within the week proceeding the murders?

It may have been planned IMO.
[video=youtube;y0MNncO9lLs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0MNncO9lLs[/video]

 

[Jax49]

Thank you!
Anything we can see on a news blog?

No resolution or missing person report in possible abduction in Lafayette:

[h=1]Lafayette police search for teen in possible abduction[/h]
http://www.wlfi.com/story/35467004/...en-they-say-was-forcefully-put-into-a-vehicle

Police said Mann was the only person to witness the incident. The Lafayette Police Department has not received a missing person report as of 9 a.m. Friday.

They believe it is possible the incident was a domestic situation or a family dispute.

bbm

 

[Evania]

Question?
If he pushed Abby off the bridge would she have landed in the water or on land?

It appears that when they photographed him, they were actually already on the land, just off the south end of the bridge (according to those who have made videos matching key components on the bridge and surrounding trees with Libby's photographs). Before I saw the videos that these dedicated sleuthers made, I figured that the picture of BG was taken while they were all three in the middle of the bridge. In my opinion, that doesn't look to be the case. They were on the other side already and appeared to be essentially trapped, with crossing the creek being their only means to get back to the other side. This is just my personal opinion based on the videos I have seen. The video I used as reference is on thread 58 on page 30 (I'm using Tapatalk)


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[kat913]

On February 9th Delphi received it's first snowfall of the year. On February 11th this video of the area was posted of drone footage. I am NOT suggesting that this video poster had anything to do with the crime, but this video does reveal some interesting details:

-It was probably filmed about 72 hours before the crime and available for BG to see.
-During the filming only it does not appear to be a busy walking spot.
-The creek appears to be shallow.
-There are areas along the banks that are private and fairly flat.

If BG is not a resident of the Delphi immediate area then do we think he may have scoped out the place in the days leading up to the murders?

Is LE questioning people who visited the spot within the week proceeding the murders?

It may have been planned IMO.
[video=youtube;y0MNncO9lLs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0MNncO9lLs[/video]

Daae which side is which? I believe the right side is the northeast side (side girls were found).....is that actually a shot of the spot as it pans over limbs in the water? Is the hilly left side, the south side? Am I interpretiung this correctly or am I backwards (would not be surprised...directionally challenged here!)

Thanks

 

[Jethro4WS]

To address your question :
If the video and sound recording were on any kind of cloud, the family and LE would have known the night they went missing that they were in danger. When the search was called off around midnight due to darkness, LE stated that they felt the girls were not in any danger except from the elements. I cannot see that they could make that statement being able to access the cloud if the cloud had the audio/video on it.

Additionally, a special team was brought in to extract the audio/video from Libby's phone after the girls were found. That to me says that LE has her phone and I suspect that the phone was damaged requiring a special team to do it. jmo.

Not necessarily. If the recording ended abruptly - other than simply stopping the recording or powering the phone down - then the file in the cloud would be incomplete. In that scenario the file might just be a temporary file or even a file that has some kind of extension like ".part" rather than a video extension. An incomplete file would also be missing any CRC32 or checksum information or other file format requirements to make it a valid, playable video. If that were the case it would require the software tools and skill set to recover and make the file playable.

I do not believe, based on the search activities the next day, that LE has Libby's phone. I do believe that whatever amount of video LE has is what was recoverable in the cloud. When they showed that news report about phone forensics they made a point of saying that they weren't going to show how the forensics people went about getting the video and then proceeded to hook up one of their phones to a cable and used forensic extraction/recovery software on that phone. If that is not what the phone forensics people did with Libby's phone, then LE does not have her phone.

I would suggest that it would be quite the trophy if this is the work of a serial killer. They could replay that video/audio over and over and over again to relive what they did more vividly. In the case of a serial killer, unless the killer never came across the phone it is extremely unlikely that LE has it.

 

[Maplesyrup]

If he is the same killer of Elizabeth and Lyric, he knows he out-foxed the police. Maybe it gave him confidence to do it again in Delphi. I think he is a cool customer. The dates mean something to him, IMO. But what ....? Seems bizarre and not coincidental.

Interesting that some get a ritualistic overtone to these murders. Stream used for "cleansing"?

Maybe birthdate of a girl/woman he deeply resented? Date of a traumatic event in his life? I know the Indiana/Iowa dates are something like mirror images but just a thought. IMO

 

[Daae]

kat913,
I think he is landing the drone north of the murder site. He is filming near the little island you see in many photos. He is controlling the drone from the north end of the bridge before crossing. I wonder if this guy has any pertinent footage that is not in his youtube post that shows the area. I pulled this picture from the video.

 

[skibaboo]

Daae which side is which? I believe the right side is the northeast side (side girls were found).....is that actually a shot of the spot as it pans over limbs in the water? Is the hilly left side, the south side? Am I interpretiung this correctly or am I backwards (would not be surprised...directionally challenged here!)

Thanks

Backwards. It starts off and lands on the South East side, it pans around and you see the NW side of the bridge and people stood there, then it goes to a view of the bridge from the west side before the drone lands on the SE side of the bridge, the bend in the creek goes around to where the girls were found.

 

[Evania]

In the drone footage, you can see pretty much all the points of interest in the crime. Am I seeing that right?


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[Shiressleuth]

It appears that when they photographed him, they were actually already on the land, just off the south end of the bridge (according to those who have made videos matching key components on the bridge and surrounding trees with Libby's photographs). Before I saw the videos that these dedicated sleuthers made, I figured that the picture of BG was taken while they were all three in the middle of the bridge. In my opinion, that doesn't look to be the case. They were on the other side already and appeared to be essentially trapped, with crossing the creek being their only means to get back to the other side. This is just my personal opinion based on the videos I have seen. The video I used as reference is on thread 58 on page 30 (I'm using Tapatalk)


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I have seen this mentioned before and do not believe the girls would necessarily be "trapped" at that end of the bridge because Abby's home was in walking distance of that end of the bridge. The road under the bridge going south west at that end leads to several residences, one of which was Abbeys home. Wouldn't it be natural to run that way rather than the opposite direction away from home towards woods, water and a seeming dead end?

 

[WebSight]

Not necessarily. If the recording ended abruptly - other than simply stopping the recording or powering the phone down - then the file in the cloud would be incomplete. In that scenario the file might just be a temporary file or even a file that has some kind of extension like ".part" rather than a video extension. An incomplete file would also be missing any CRC32 or checksum information or other file format requirements to make it a valid, playable video. If that were the case it would require the software tools and skill set to recover and make the file playable.

I do not believe, based on the search activities the next day, that LE has Libby's phone. I do believe that whatever amount of video LE has is what was recoverable in the cloud. When they showed that news report about phone forensics they made a point of saying that they weren't going to show how the forensics people went about getting the video and then proceeded to hook up one of their phones to a cable and used forensic extraction/recovery software on that phone. If that is not what the phone forensics people did with Libby's phone, then LE does not have her phone.

I would suggest that it would be quite the trophy if this is the work of a serial killer. They could replay that video/audio over and over and over again to relive what they did more vividly. In the case of a serial killer, unless the killer never came across the phone it is extremely unlikely that LE has it.

Thank you Jethro, I can always count on you to give a technically correct explanation, and I mean that as a compliment. Your info on any given subject is always so informative and accurate, always backed with data to prove your point.

I imagine I must rethink my long-held position that LE has the phone. What a haunting thought that BG could have it still.

 

[Evania]

I have seen this mentioned before and do not believe the girls would necessarily be "trapped" at that end of the bridge because Abby's home was in walking distance of that end of tha bridge. The road under the bridge going south west at that end leads to several residences, one of which was Abbeys home. Wouldn't it be natural to run that way rather than the opposite direction away from home towards woods, water and a seeming dead end?

I thought that her home was on the other side of the bridge, on the side of the creek that they were found at? Unless, I'm getting the north vs south ends of the bridge mixed up.


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[Shiressleuth]

I thought that her home was on the other side of the bridge, on the side of the creek that they were found at? Unless, I'm getting the north vs south ends of the bridge mixed up.


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No they were found on the north side of the creek and Abbey's home is south of the creek. RL's property and the cemetery is north of the creek too.

 

[Evania]

No they were found on the north side of the creek and Abbey's home is south of the creek. RL's property and the cemetery is north of the creek too.

Okay, I had the directions right. I thought her house was on the north too. Thank you. I must have looked at the map of her address wrong.


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[EmmaRose]

I have seen this mentioned before and do not believe the girls would necessarily be "trapped" at that end of the bridge because Abby's home was in walking distance of that end of the bridge. The road under the bridge going south west at that end leads to several residences, one of which was Abbeys home. Wouldn't it be natural to run that way rather than the opposite direction away from home towards woods, water and a seeming dead end?

Interesting question. You would think so, if they had a chance to run.

 

[margarita25]

Those are excellent questions.
However I work in neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, and am not in the field of behavioral neurobiology.

That said, IMHOO, individuals with the capability to murder must have an intrinsic tendency for this unique type of violence. You cannot curb this type of behavior.

Our DNA encodes for our eye color, our height, and our sexual preference. I cannot suddenly try to be a gay woman. I cannot change the code within my DNA.

(Yeah I know, I tried! Hahahaha :biggrin: Lmao... I went through a man hating phase right after I escaped my abusive ex. Can't be gay even if I try! Probably like a gay person trying to be straight!

:floorlaugh: )

 

[Justice101]

I have seen this mentioned before and do not believe the girls would necessarily be "trapped" at that end of the bridge because Abby's home was in walking distance of that end of the bridge. The road under the bridge going south west at that end leads to several residences, one of which was Abbeys home. Wouldn't it be natural to run that way rather than the opposite direction away from home towards woods, water and a seeming dead end?

Well, I think the girls did end up sort of trapped. Just think, if you are them, you know the end of the trail is at the end of the bridge and they'd probably never gone past that point in the past... or it would have be trespassing. So, mentally, they are trapped at the end of the bridge. The question for me is did they really know just how sinister the perpetrators' actions were going to be... so that they blindly obeyed him and followed his orders to the T? If they didn't realize it until they were down near the creek that he meant to harm them, then it was too late to find an escape route.

It's easy for us to judge the two girls actions thinking "Why didn't they both run in different directions??!!" But remember, we here have the benefit of knowing they are about to be murdered and so they'd better run, it's their only chance.. .but those two girls on the other hand, we probably cooperating so as to not get harmed...

This whole case is just so sad. I'm not for executions... but in this case, there is NOTHING that you could do to the person(s) who killed these girls, including torture, that would upset me. I want the guilty in this case (lawfully) killed.

 

[labam99]

I've been checking on updates everyday since this case started, I never want to give up hope but there has been NOTHING from police in 3 months. NOTHING. ZILCH. ZERO. People on here are still talking about the same stuff/photos/theories that they were 3 months ago. It is so disheartening and painful seeing that there is no progress on this case, I'm really losing hope every passing day now, I can't fathom that someone can murder two little girls in broad daylight and get away with it, it's heartbreaking.