IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #59

[Evania]

Well, I think the girls were sort of trapped. Just think, you know the end of the trail is the bridge and they'd probably not gone past that point... or it would be trespassing. So, mentally, they are trapped. The question for me is did they really know just how sinister the perpetrators actions were going to be so that they followed his orders to the T? If they didn't realize it until they were down near the creek that he meant to harm them, then it was too late to find as escape.

It's easy for us to judge them thinking "Why didn't they both run in different directions??!!" But remember, we have the benefit of knowing they are about to be murdered so they'd better run.. .those two girls on the other hand, we probably cooperating so as to not get harmed...

This whole case is just so sad. I'm not for executions... but in this case, there is NOTHING that you could do to the person(s) who killed these girls, including torture, that would upset me. I want the guilty in this case (lawfully) killed.

Those are really good points.

He was also trapping them in the sense that there were no trails on that end of the bridge. It's a dead end. I realize that there's a private driveway, but maybe in their "fight or flight" mode, with their split second thinking, they were thinking to get back to their pick up spot as it was near the time they would have been picked up, or maybe because that side was more populated with hikers that could help them. The south side of the bridge wouldn't necessarily have anyone over there. If that was the case, the only way back would be crossing the creek. Just some additional scenarios to ponder over...


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[Shiressleuth]

Okay, I had the directions right. I thought her house was on the north too. Thank you. I must have looked at the map of her address wrong.


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The girls were obviously very familiar with the area and would have been able to get away unless they were tricked or forced IMO. The fact that they were found on the cemetery side of the creek and how they got there is just one of the mysteries of this case.

 

[mountainguy777]

I said this a few weeks into this, and it still stands true. This case is going the way of the Iowa girls (5 years now). At some point LE has to risk some court evidence and risk offending the family and give the public much more to help find the killer(s). IMO....

 

[asyousay]

I said this a few weeks into this, and it still stands true. This case is going the way of the Iowa girls (5 years now). At some point LE has to risk some court evidence and risk offending the family and give the public much more to help find the killer(s). IMO....

I agree - why on earth they have let this case go cold is beyond me.

We are now over the 3 month mark and they don't have a clue imo

 

[Evania]

The girls were obviously very familiar with the area and would have been able to get away unless they were tricked or forced IMO. The fact that they were found on the cemetery side of the creek and how they got there is just one of the mysteries of this case.

I totally agree.

It doesn't make sense to run that direction if her house is on the south side. I'm trying to think in terms of a life and death mindset in which sometimes logic flies out the window. Who knows what was racing through their minds, in a matter of seconds, if a weapon was facing them? Maybe they had spotted other people earlier in their walk and thought fleeing to a more populated side was their best bet? Maybe they weren't thinking at all. Maybe their instinct was to just run and one followed the other because they didn't want to be separated. It's hard to tell, because we weren't there. But yes, I'm in total agreement that they could have likely been forced as well. Either way, their last moments had to have been sheer terror. It's so sad...



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[BoggLed in Ohio]

I said this a few weeks into this, and it still stands true. This case is going the way of the Iowa girls (5 years now). At some point LE has to risk some court evidence and risk offending the family and give the public much more to help find the killer(s). IMO....

I totally agree . I just can't believe we're entering the fourth month and have nothing. it's unbelievable. And I do believe they certainly could release more audio or video or both without compromising there case, because without a suspect, they don't even have a case anyways for starters ! Second of all, I know some people are afraid it could spook him into fleeing... but I remember years ago on the news, watching GMA and their report about the police announcing that they believed they were getting close to catching the BTK Killer . This was before he was arrested. How could they say that and not fear him fleeing the country or whatever, yet they won't give a peep about this case. If they could say that beforehand about someone as sick and dangerous as BTK was, I don't understand why they couldn't release more info here. We have a CHILD KILLER ON THE LOOSE FOR OVER 3 MONTHS HERE NOW

 

[Peace777]

Okay, I had the directions right. I thought her house was on the north too. Thank you. I must have looked at the map of her address wrong.


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If you follow the private road under the bridge back towards the trash dumping/recycling depot it leads right past the William's residence IMO Down the hill and follow the road going right...

 

[24Roses]

I haven't been on here daily for about a month. Sad to see it seems there has been no progress. The last I knew RL was serving his time for the probation violation . Is this right and have I missed anything new?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Well, I think the girls did end up sort of trapped. Just think, if you are them, you know the end of the trail is at the end of the bridge and they'd probably never gone past that point in the past... or it would have be trespassing. So, mentally, they are trapped at the end of the bridge. The question for me is did they really know just how sinister the perpetrators' actions were going to be... so that they blindly obeyed him and followed his orders to the T? If they didn't realize it until they were down near the creek that he meant to harm them, then it was too late to find an escape route.

It's easy for us to judge the two girls actions thinking "Why didn't they both run in different directions??!!" But remember, we here have the benefit of knowing they are about to be murdered and so they'd better run, it's their only chance.. .but those two girls on the other hand, we probably cooperating so as to not get harmed...

This whole case is just so sad. I'm not for executions... but in this case, there is NOTHING that you could do to the person(s) who killed these girls, including torture, that would upset me. I want the guilty in this case (lawfully) killed.

bbm

.... and I want him illegally chased before and him being for enough time in very great fear of death. :furious:

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

On February 9th Delphi received it's first snowfall of the year. On February 11th this video of the area was posted of drone footage. I am NOT suggesting that this video poster had anything to do with the crime, but this video does reveal some interesting details:

-It was probably filmed about 72 hours before the crime and available for BG to see.
-During the filming only it does not appear to be a busy walking spot.
-The creek appears to be shallow.
-There are areas along the banks that are private and fairly flat.

If BG is not a resident of the Delphi immediate area then do we think he may have scoped out the place in the days leading up to the murders?

Is LE questioning people who visited the spot within the week proceeding the murders?

It may have been planned IMO.
[video=youtube;y0MNncO9lLs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0MNncO9lLs[/video]

I sure hope they did. I also hope they checked every possible surveillance cam in the region..how long would that take to do I wonder.

PS dont feet the troll, people. Obviously, BG is not stupid enough to name himself that on here and start posting. And if he suddenly became dumb overnight..well..then, I guess sit yourself down BG and tell us everything, keep talking til you hear that knock on the door.

 

[Confusion]

Not as easy as I'd hoped. Once I got it transferred, I also had to get a conversion program to convert it to a file type that is accepted here. Hope it helps.
View attachment DTH.mp3

ETA: I guess I should add for people who didn't read my posts last niight that this is the sound I got from recording on my phone while walking with it in my pocket.

 

[Burnt Toast]

I've been checking on updates everyday since this case started, I never want to give up hope but there has been NOTHING from police in 3 months. NOTHING. ZILCH. ZERO. People on here are still talking about the same stuff/photos/theories that they were 3 months ago. It is so disheartening and painful seeing that there is no progress on this case, I'm really losing hope every passing day now, I can't fathom that someone can murder two little girls in broad daylight and get away with it, it's heartbreaking.

i think learning less than two weeks ago that LE was still waiting on "more" forensic testing results from their FBI lab is fairly significant news.

 

[Burnt Toast]

I said this a few weeks into this, and it still stands true. This case is going the way of the Iowa girls (5 years now). At some point LE has to risk some court evidence and risk offending the family and give the public much more to help find the killer(s). IMO....

i personally do not think that LE is withholding information as to not offend the family. i think they are doing so because it could compromise their investigation, and it is possible that they don't need to. At the press conference when they released the audio they said that was all the were going to release "at this time". I read into that statement to mean if they need to release more they will.

 

[TTF14]

I said this a few weeks into this, and it still stands true. This case is going the way of the Iowa girls (5 years now). At some point LE has to risk some court evidence and risk offending the family and give the public much more to help find the killer(s). IMO....

Couldn't agree more.

 

[M. Kay]

This strikes me as a fresh observation (or orientation) with regard to the crime. I've been returning to sleuths, agreeing with others that it's shocking how long we, and the community of the girls, have gone without following up from Law Enforcement. Perhaps some new "map" can illustrate Peace 777's logistics---? I've been imagining where a brutal crime could be accomplished in our neighborhood (urban by a park) and had to consider a variety of elements. When you know your area, you could strategize. My opinion is this wasn't opportunity, it was arranged.

 

[tlcya]

:sweep:

Pardon the interruption. Thread is open for posting

 

[Cryptic]

IIRC .... we are not sure when this was recorded in relation to the crime. Many sleuthers feel his voice is controlled and commanding.
When I listened to this again, I hear " they're down the hill"
almost as if BG is speaking to someone other than the girls.
Maybe BG had Libby's phone in his possession at some time.

If BG did say "They're down the hill", it could indicate that at least one of girls was planning on meeting somebody. The more I think about it, the more I feels this was the case:

One of the victims intended to meet either an individual, or a group of people. BG suddenly and confidently strides out onto the bridge. The girls find him unsettling- he is not whom they were expecting. They take his photo. But.... BG is not so unsettling that they refuse his order. They go down the hill with the expectation that the others in the meeting are down there.

In contrast, had BG been a randomly encountered person with a weapon, I think the girls would have acted surprised, and given the automatic response of "What?", "Why?", "What are you doing?", "Don't hurt us".

Likewise, if BG had pulled a "I am a security guard, you are trespassing..." ruse, there would have been some other discussion as well ("We come here all the time", "I thought this was part of the park" etc.")

In the end, both victims were very familiar with the area and had probably never seen railroad crews there, let alone a non uniformed "security guard" enforcing trespassing. Likewise, the victims may have been vaguely aware that the bridge was to be part of a public park- thus an even lower chance of trespassing enforcement.

As a result, BG as a "security" guard may well have triggered more alarm bells than the slightly creepy BG telling them about a meeting that they expected.

 

[Jennifer17]

If BG did say "They're down the hill", it could indicate that at least one of girls was planning on meeting somebody. The more I think about it, the more I feels this was the case:

One of the victims intended to meet either an individual, or a group of people. BG suddenly and confidently strides out onto the bridge. The girls find him unsettling- he is not whom they were expecting. They take his photo.

But.... neither BG's apperaence or command are so unsettling that they refuse his order. They go down the hill with the expectation that the others in the meeting are down there.

In contrast, had BG been a randomly encountered person with a weapon, I think the girls would have acted surprised, and given the automatic response of "What?", "Why?", "What are you doing?", "Don't hurt us".

Likewise, if BG had pulled a "I am a security guard, you are trespassing..." ruse, there would have been some other discussion as well. Both victims were very familiar with the area and had probably never seen rail road crews there, let alone an non uniformed "security guard" enforcing trespassing.

It sounded like an imperative to me, not an explanation or the answer to a question.

 

[Maplesyrup]

It sounded like an imperative to me, not an explanation or the answer to a question.

Personally I could envision "down the hill" accompanied by a gun in the girls' faces and him quickly glancing around to be sure he didn't see any other hikers as he marched them quickly down the hill. IMO

 

[Burnt Toast]

I agree - why on earth they have let this case go cold is beyond me.

We are now over the 3 month mark and they don't have a clue imo

it was only a week and a half ago that we learned that LE is still waiting on results from forensic testing from the FBI's virginia lab. a cold case is when all leads have been exhausted. this case is far from that. i think it is likely they have a suspect in their radar. there is a reason LE is so quite.