IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #59

[St. Anthony2017]

Ok, I have my cerebral CPU overclocked today. I have seen more theories of cat fishing or the girls possibly meeting up with someone. With that said here are a few things that have come to mind.

The last snapchat pics by LG was one of AW on the bridge ( no one else seen) and then the last pic of just the bridge looking south to north as the girls appear to on off of the bridge on the south end. Again no one else in sight. Now from what has been stated the times of these photos were around 2:07pm.


So the girls are hanging out right there at the south end of the bridge for 20-30 minutes? Were the girls actually waiting to meet someone? LE states BG was on the scene around or at 2:30pm. 2:30? What a convenient time for a meeting. You know most meeting times or at the top of the hour or on the half hour, right?


So let’s look at it this way. It’s 2:30pm and let’s say it is meeting time and Libby realizes here comes someone and it’s the ONLY person coming across the bridge around 2:30pm BG is too far away to make out any detail so Libby gets her phone out and uses the video with the zoom as an optic to get a closer look of BG. Let’s all think about the image of BG. There is nothing in that still captured image that I interpret as a threat. No exposed weapons such as guns, knives or even a taser. Body language? I see no aggressive stances and not even an aggressive gait simply based on BG has his hands in his pockets which usually displays a laid back stroll. BG is somewhat trying to disguise himself or cover up his appearance. Maybe he is trying to get as close to the girls as possible before they realize he is not who they are expecting. I see nothing other than a man out for a walk just like the girls. But…..the meeting time and the only person around on the bridge the girls realize this is not who they were expecting to meet. After Libby zoomed in on BG for a closer look is when the flag went up and the girls are alarmed.


The girls are smart and maybe thought that since they would be together it would be safe to meet someone they have been socializing online. Now in BG’s advantage, he knows where he was meeting one or both of them, more than likely both. How much time in advance did he know we don’t know. Let’s say he has time to recon the area not just once but multiple times. He had a very precise plan and knew the area very well. Based on the audio clip and some opinions based on some of the sounds Confusion stated it could have been the noise of LG’s jeans rubbing the phone mic in her pocket. Let’s say it’s possible and so we hear walking before BG says, “Down the Hill”. How could this be if it is assumed the hill referred to is the hill right at the south end of the bridge? Did the girls actually get nervous and started heading back across the bridge south to north and BG gained control of them on the bridge? He get’s the girls at gun point and forces them to walk back to the south end of the bridge and when arriving to the end of the bridge he tells them to go down the hill. If there were someone else already under the bridge down the hill, I assume the girls would have known before BG’s arrival.


911 wasn’t dialed because there wasn’t an immediate threat until it was too late. If there was a previous encounter with BG I am thinking the girls would have called somebody and BG’s cover is blown. They didn’t run because again they didn’t have a chance to run or scream. Once down the hill they realize the seriousness of their situation they are in and the fight for survival takes place.


How long did it take for local LE to call in the FBI? LE mentioned they considered foul play based on the positioning of the bodies. This is when IMO they recognized what type of a killer they were dealing with and called the Feds. The positioning of the bodies is part of a SK signature. Why did 6000 billboards get lit up nationwide? BG has been on the FBI radar for sometime now based on his signature? BG is not a RSO because there has been no DNA match. BG is not a local or family member or I would think he would have been identified. Experienced SK for the fact it was broad day light and 2 victims. He’s bold and wants more of a thrill.

His DNA from a sexual offense previously may not have been in the system because it was not taken by the State he committed crime in or they have it in a backlog pile. If they got a tip on a likely suspect they can get his DNA done now to compare to other unsolved cases. I agree he is a SK. Maybe a copycat of the Zodiac who we have talked about before.Also his original case could have been pled down even though it was a sex offense. This time he did not want to leave any witnesses. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

This has always been my interpretation of it as well, without trying to read to much into it. I believe that is what LE meant. So often we try to make more out of statements that LE have made. MOO

I agree. At the time of that early press conference, the autopsy hadn't been completed nor the victims formally identified. Watching it, it seems clear LE is doing their best to advise the public the two girls had been found murdered even though official proof hadn't yet been provided. The various statements taken in isolation may appear to be meaningful but in actuality, the answers were intentionally vague in reply to very pointed questions.

 

[iscaremyself]

steleheart....
when I read that quote I thought that it was meant that the bodies were *positioned* in an odd way. Why do you think it means the "condition" of the bodies rather than how the bodies appeared in the CS? I'm a fan of your posts and would like your opinion.

I felt like positioning of the bodies meant the girls' bodies were positioned in such an odd way that LE ruled out an accident. As if they way the bodies appeared the did if not die of natural causes, I.e. fallen or stumbled....

that could be referring to 'state of dress'..imho

 

[Molecularblonde]

I'm intrigued by the last paragraph of your post. Are you saying DNA shows sexual preference? It's surprising then, there aren't more LE themed updates on cases saying "DNA indicates the killer is a gay woman" etc. I'd love to read more about DNA determining sexual preference: do you have a link? I've seen several studies that show differences in brains around sexual identity. But never anything about DNA. In my opinion you actually can "try and be a gay woman". You may not succeed, but you can try, because it's a behaviour you have some decision making power in: you can choose who you have sex with. Without things like contact lenses, you can't wake up and decide your eyes are blue today when they are actually brown.


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This is very diffcult to explain so forgive me if this doesn't make sense.

I clone genes for a living. We do not know what each and every gene, (and it's subsequent protein) encodes for. There is no single "gay" gene. Genes exist sometimes as discreet (single) codes, but many exist as clusters. So, there is no discreet gene for your specific fingerprint for example. But there are specific genes for disorders like trisomy 21 (Down's syndrome). There are single mutations for things like Tay- Sach's disease. Somethings occur as the result of one singe base pair mutation. But other disorders like cancer are a conglomeration of multiple genetic mutations.
My point is that our DNA codes for major aspects of our character. You might feel that it's nurture, and that can be true. But nature is what determines the majority of our phenotype.

There is no "one article" that sites that DNA codes for eye color. But it does.

I hope I have not offended anyone who has religious beliefs that go against science.

 

[Reluctant1]

I agree. At the time of that early press conference, the autopsy hadn't been completed nor the victims formally identified. Watching it, it seems clear LE is doing their best to advise the public the two girls had been found murdered even though official proof hadn't yet been provided. The various statements taken in isolation may appear to be meaningful but in actuality, the answers were intentionally vague in reply to very pointed questions.

Agreed. I think that early press conference definitely shows shaken law enforcement surprised and (self remonstrated to some extent) about the outcome.



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[Daae]

Ok, I have my cerebral CPU overclocked today. I have seen more theories of cat fishing or the girls possibly meeting up with someone. With that said here are a few things that have come to mind.

The last snapchat pics by LG was one of AW on the bridge ( no one else seen) and then the last pic of just the bridge looking south to north as the girls appear to on off of the bridge on the south end. Again no one else in sight. Now from what has been stated the times of these photos were around 2:07pm.


So the girls are hanging out right there at the south end of the bridge for 20-30 minutes? Were the girls actually waiting to meet someone? LE states BG was on the scene around or at 2:30pm. 2:30? What a convenient time for a meeting. You know most meeting times or at the top of the hour or on the half hour, right?


So let’s look at it this way. It’s 2:30pm and let’s say it is meeting time and Libby realizes here comes someone and it’s the ONLY person coming across the bridge around 2:30pm BG is too far away to make out any detail so Libby gets her phone out and uses the video with the zoom as an optic to get a closer look of BG. Let’s all think about the image of BG. There is nothing in that still captured image that I interpret as a threat. No exposed weapons such as guns, knives or even a taser. Body language? I see no aggressive stances and not even an aggressive gait simply based on BG has his hands in his pockets which usually displays a laid back stroll. BG is somewhat trying to disguise himself or cover up his appearance. Maybe he is trying to get as close to the girls as possible before they realize he is not who they are expecting. I see nothing other than a man out for a walk just like the girls. But…..the meeting time and the only person around on the bridge the girls realize this is not who they were expecting to meet. After Libby zoomed in on BG for a closer look is when the flag went up and the girls are alarmed.


The girls are smart and maybe thought that since they would be together it would be safe to meet someone they have been socializing online. Now in BG’s advantage, he knows where he was meeting one or both of them, more than likely both. How much time in advance did he know we don’t know. Let’s say he has time to recon the area not just once but multiple times. He had a very precise plan and knew the area very well. Based on the audio clip and some opinions based on some of the sounds Confusion stated it could have been the noise of LG’s jeans rubbing the phone mic in her pocket. Let’s say it’s possible and so we hear walking before BG says, “Down the Hill”. How could this be if it is assumed the hill referred to is the hill right at the south end of the bridge? Did the girls actually get nervous and started heading back across the bridge south to north and BG gained control of them on the bridge? He get’s the girls at gun point and forces them to walk back to the south end of the bridge and when arriving to the end of the bridge he tells them to go down the hill. If there were someone else already under the bridge down the hill, I assume the girls would have known before BG’s arrival.


911 wasn’t dialed because there wasn’t an immediate threat until it was too late. If there was a previous encounter with BG I am thinking the girls would have called somebody and BG’s cover is blown. They didn’t run because again they didn’t have a chance to run or scream. Once down the hill they realize the seriousness of their situation they are in and the fight for survival takes place.


How long did it take for local LE to call in the FBI? LE mentioned they considered foul play based on the positioning of the bodies. This is when IMO they recognized what type of a killer they were dealing with and called the Feds. The positioning of the bodies is part of a SK signature. Why did 6000 billboards get lit up nationwide? BG has been on the FBI radar for sometime now based on his signature? BG is not a RSO because there has been no DNA match. BG is not a local or family member or I would think he would have been identified. Experienced SK for the fact it was broad day light and 2 victims. He’s bold and wants more of a thrill.

You have put together what I have been thinking !!!! IMO KIK information is VERY hard to access even for LE. "Kik Messenger has drawn controversy due to its reported involvement in a number of incidents of child exploitation. The app has been criticized as unsafe for minors due to its anonymity features and allegedly weak parental control mechanisms." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kik_Messenger. There is no requirement for a phone number associated with the account. It is Canadian and Chinese owned.

 

[KellyNoonan]

Agreed. I think that early press conference definitely shows shaken law enforcement surprised and (self remonstrated to some extent) about the outcome.
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Absolutely shaken. Forty year professionals.

 

[Steleheart]

steleheart....
when I read that quote I thought that it was meant that the bodies were *positioned* in an odd way. Why do you think it means the "condition" of the bodies rather than how the bodies appeared in the CS? I'm a fan of your posts and would like your opinion.

I felt like positioning of the bodies meant the girls' bodies were positioned in such an odd way that LE ruled out an accident. As if they way the bodies appeared the did if not die of natural causes, I.e. fallen or stumbled....

Well because he used a vague way of saying something about the bodies in that 'how they were found' indicates they were killed, specifically killed, not accident, suicide or exposure, etc. You explain what 'positioned' means very well, but positioning was not said. A position could indicate a killing as opposed to a suicide I would think, but without getting more specific here as in 'staging' or displaying for instance and what that means.
I DO believe LE was trying to avoid that kind of speculating and rumor.I think he was saying the simplest way to indicate murder as opposed to other means of death.
Anything about positioning" is speculation without fact in this case - so far. "the way they were found" could be as simple as blue lips, tied hands. A knife in the chest would indicate murder without and specific positioning.

All JMO of course, but that is the LE quote we have. There are no quotes anywhere about positioning except on a certain blog. It won't surprise me if it's true. Nothing will TBH.

 

[Molecularblonde]

that could be referring to 'state of dress'..imho

Excellent point. I had never thought of that.

 

[Molecularblonde]

Well because he used a vague way of saying something about the bodies in that that 'how they were found' indicates they were killed, specifically killed, not accident, suicide or exposure, etc. You explain what 'positioned' means very well, but positioning was not said. A position could indicate a killing as opposed to a suicide I would think, but without getting more specific here as in 'staging' or displaying for instance and what that means.
I DO believe LE was trying to avoid that kind of speculating and rumor.I think he was saying the simplest way to indicate murder as opposed to other means of death.
Anything about positioning" is speculation without fact in this case - so far. "the way they were found" could be as simple as blue lips, tied hands. A knife in the chest would indicate murder without and specific positioning.

All JMO of course, but that is the LE quote we have. There are no quotes anywhere about positioning except on a certain blog. It won't surprise me if it's true. Nothing will TBH.

I agree with all that your wrote. And certainly LE was trying to avoid any speculation and a rush to judgement by the press and public.
Thanks for expounding on your thoughts!
You're a lot more articulate that I am.

 

[Steleheart]

I agree with all that your wrote. And certainly LE was trying to avoid any speculation and a rush to judgement by the press and public.
Thanks for expounding on your thoughts!
You're a lot more articulate that I am.

Well you type better

 

[Wild Rose]

Absolutely shaken. Forty year professionals.

Their obvious stress from the get go, made me think that they had to listen to the whole thing IMO.

 

[Brighty]

an investigator as in one person? i don't even know where they would start. they wouldn't have any access to the evidence collected from the CS or during probable cause search warrants. They would not have access to the results of the forensic testing or the list of people that LE has cleared, and most importantly they would not have access to the full video or audio made by libby. there is so much that would not be available to them. they would have to start from square one.

I agree. I can't see where an investigator would have more information to work with than we do here.

If there was a local investigator that had connections with different groups of shall we say "low lifes" it might be helpful to have them make the rounds in some cases and see what the word is in the back alleys. In this case I don't think even that would be helpful because I believe a serial killer did this and would not be doing any talking. I personally don't think the person that did this is a local either.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

I agree. I can't see where an investigator would have more information to work with than we do here.

If there was a local investigator that had connections with different groups of shall we say "low lifes" it might be helpful to have them make the rounds in some cases and see what the word is in the back alleys. In this case I don't think even that would be helpful because I believe a serial killer did this and would not be doing any talking. I personally don't think the person that did this is a local either.

It appears that the media are cooperating with LE too in that they are letting them do their job no matter what suspicions they may have of who did the crime. Imo when this is solved they will have the biggest story of their career and a lot of other crimes will be solved also. They are willing to wait to be rewarded with the exclusive when LE makes the arrest.

 

[Molecularblonde]

Well you type better

I get a little confused when I see the word "staged".
Generally "staging" means that the body was in a position that it wouldn't naturally assume had it not been interfered with, right? It doesn't necessarily mean that the body was placed in a sexually provocative way? Just an unexpected or unnatural way?

 

[Deleted member 196796]

Please provide a link for the sentence I bolded. I've never seen LE make a statement about the body positions.
I will link below what I have seen in MSM.

Some of the answers to your other questions are within the WS site. There is also a scanner thread you can access.

In a subsequent news conference, authorities said the bodies had yet to be positively identified and could not confirm if they were German and Williams.

Police noted, however, that foul play likely was a factor in the deaths.

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...eens-found-dead-what-we-know-so-far/97985148/

My apologies Bird and thank you for keeping me straight. LE made the following statement, "Riley said the suspicions arose because of “the way the bodies were found, that’s about all I can say at this time.” Riley did not use the word "position" I picked that up on 2 other blogs but not stated by LE. I will correct if I can still edit or delete. Again, everything is merging and I need to take a break on my posting. I appreciate your contributions.

Quick update for my corrective actions since I can still edit this posting. I contacted the moderators to omit my incorrect statement. Again Bird I greatly appreciate you calling me on that one.

 

[watcher9]

I agree. I can't see where an investigator would have more information to work with than we do here.

If there was a local investigator that had connections with different groups of shall we say "low lifes" it might be helpful to have them make the rounds in some cases and see what the word is in the back alleys. In this case I don't think even that would be helpful because I believe a serial killer did this and would not be doing any talking. I personally don't think the person that did this is a local either.

I also agree that he will turn out to be a serial killer and not be local to Delphi or Carroll County.
I believe he came to the trail with plans to assault an unknown female person who happened to be walking alone with no witnesses nearby. That he came across the girls and was able to isolate them was his big dream come true.

 

[Steleheart]

I get a little confused when I see the word "staged".
Generally "staging" means that the body was in a position that it wouldn't naturally assume had it not been interfered with, right? It doesn't necessarily mean that the body was placed in a sexually provocative way? Just an unexpected or unnatural way?

Yes positioning - was trying to avoid the extreme but staging can be as simple as oriented north/south for instance or sexually displayed. Arms outstretched, face down, on and on.

 

[kat913]

Anybody any good at finding out if there were any auctions going on in or near Carroll County beginning week of Feb 8th thru Feb 15th.

I haven't found much luck researching....maybe somebody is better at this?

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 196796]

His DNA from a sexual offense previously may not have been in the system because it was not taken by the State he committed crime in or they have it in a backlog pile. If they got a tip on a likely suspect they can get his DNA done now to compare to other unsolved cases. I agree he is a SK. Maybe a copycat of the Zodiac who we have talked about before.Also his original case could have been pled down even though it was a sex offense. This time he did not want to leave any witnesses. JMO

Thank you for the education. St. Anthony you're sure not making me feel any better. But I understand government work and no accountability. I hope they are pulling all of the criminals back in for a DNA sample to put in the system whether time served or not. I don't understand it even all military has had to provide DNA to go into the federal system along with FBI finger prints. UNREAL!