IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #59

[Deleted member 196796]

You have put together what I have been thinking !!!! IMO KIK information is VERY hard to access even for LE. "Kik Messenger has drawn controversy due to its reported involvement in a number of incidents of child exploitation. The app has been criticized as unsafe for minors due to its anonymity features and allegedly weak parental control mechanisms." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kik_Messenger. There is no requirement for a phone number associated with the account. It is Canadian and Chinese owned.

Thank you Daae, I don't even know what KIK is but I am reading up on it. Also from what I am gathering regarding any crimes committed from luring victims via cyber routes falls under the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). Can anyone share some knowledge on this? Thank you all!

 

[NotToday]

Personally I could envision "down the hill" accompanied by a gun in the girls' faces and him quickly glancing around to be sure he didn't see any other hikers as he marched them quickly down the hill. IMO

Agreed. Wouldn't have to be as high as face level. Just obvious to the girls. It would most likely silence (quiet) and control them. Gun, knife or physical threat to the other.

This case is truly awful.

 

[Reluctant1]

I get a little confused when I see the word "staged".
Generally "staging" means that the body was in a position that it wouldn't naturally assume had it not been interfered with, right? It doesn't necessarily mean that the body was placed in a sexually provocative way? Just an unexpected or unnatural way?

Yes... Unnatural or posed would be my interpretation. I think a likely assumption of a sexual nature, but not necessarily. When I review the body language of that first conference where emotion is raw....this was clearly not an outcome LE predicted.


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[Jennifer17]

Yes... Unnatural or posed would be my interpretation. I think a likely assumption of a sexual nature, but not necessarily. When I review the body language of that first conference where emotion is raw....this was clearly not an outcome LE predicted.


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But what normal person would expect from two girls lost in the woods? They would not expect to find two girls murdered. In a small town.

 

[Brighty]

Ok, I have my cerebral CPU overclocked today. I have seen more theories of cat fishing or the girls possibly meeting up with someone. With that said here are a few things that have come to mind.

The last snapchat pics by LG was one of AW on the bridge ( no one else seen) and then the last pic of just the bridge looking south to north as the girls appear to on off of the bridge on the south end. Again no one else in sight. Now from what has been stated the times of these photos were around 2:07pm.


So the girls are hanging out right there at the south end of the bridge for 20-30 minutes? Were the girls actually waiting to meet someone? LE states BG was on the scene around or at 2:30pm. 2:30? What a convenient time for a meeting. You know most meeting times or at the top of the hour or on the half hour, right?


So let’s look at it this way. It’s 2:30pm and let’s say it is meeting time and Libby realizes here comes someone and it’s the ONLY person coming across the bridge around 2:30pm BG is too far away to make out any detail so Libby gets her phone out and uses the video with the zoom as an optic to get a closer look of BG. Let’s all think about the image of BG. There is nothing in that still captured image that I interpret as a threat. No exposed weapons such as guns, knives or even a taser. Body language? I see no aggressive stances and not even an aggressive gait simply based on BG has his hands in his pockets which usually displays a laid back stroll. BG is somewhat trying to disguise himself or cover up his appearance. Maybe he is trying to get as close to the girls as possible before they realize he is not who they are expecting. I see nothing other than a man out for a walk just like the girls. But…..the meeting time and the only person around on the bridge the girls realize this is not who they were expecting to meet. After Libby zoomed in on BG for a closer look is when the flag went up and the girls are alarmed.


The girls are smart and maybe thought that since they would be together it would be safe to meet someone they have been socializing online. Now in BG’s advantage, he knows where he was meeting one or both of them, more than likely both. How much time in advance did he know we don’t know. Let’s say he has time to recon the area not just once but multiple times. He had a very precise plan and knew the area very well. Based on the audio clip and some opinions based on some of the sounds Confusion stated it could have been the noise of LG’s jeans rubbing the phone mic in her pocket. Let’s say it’s possible and so we hear walking before BG says, “Down the Hill”. How could this be if it is assumed the hill referred to is the hill right at the south end of the bridge? Did the girls actually get nervous and started heading back across the bridge south to north and BG gained control of them on the bridge? He get’s the girls at gun point and forces them to walk back to the south end of the bridge and when arriving to the end of the bridge he tells them to go down the hill. If there were someone else already under the bridge down the hill, I assume the girls would have known before BG’s arrival.


911 wasn’t dialed because there wasn’t an immediate threat until it was too late. If there was a previous encounter with BG I am thinking the girls would have called somebody and BG’s cover is blown. They didn’t run because again they didn’t have a chance to run or scream. Once down the hill they realize the seriousness of their situation they are in and the fight for survival takes place.


How long did it take for local LE to call in the FBI? LE mentioned they considered foul play based on the positioning of the bodies. This is when IMO they recognized what type of a killer they were dealing with and called the Feds. The positioning of the bodies is part of a SK signature. Why did 6000 billboards get lit up nationwide? BG has been on the FBI radar for sometime now based on his signature? BG is not a RSO because there has been no DNA match. BG is not a local or family member or I would think he would have been identified. Experienced SK for the fact it was broad day light and 2 victims. He’s bold and wants more of a thrill.

I can see all of that happening. I would think if they "met" him online the FBI would have been able to track him by now but some people are more clever about hiding online than others.

I do think FBI "knows" who this is, not who as in his name but know him by his deeds. I think they do have DNA or other forensic match but I don't think it is to a specific person; I think it is to one or more other crime scenes. I think there was something at the scene that caused LE to speed dial FBI.

LE is being quiet for a reason I think, possibly FBI has determined that to be the best way to deal with this sort of animal. I think these murders are related to the Iowa girls, but that is just what I have come up with rolling it all around in my head. LE was and still is quiet about the IA girls too and never has released much.

 

[NotToday]

But what normal person would expect from two girls lost in the woods? They would not expect to find two girls murdered. In a small town.

Absolutely true. Although LE are not normal. Most are trained to investigate and inspect for the worst. Small town or big city.

From what I recall LE started an official search at 0530. Not sure tho.

 

[Brighty]

It appears that the media are cooperating with LE too in that they are letting them do their job no matter what suspicions they may have of who did the crime. Imo when this is solved they will have the biggest story of their career and a lot of other crimes will be solved also. They are willing to wait to be rewarded with the exclusive when LE makes the arrest.

Yes you are right the media is being very quiet too for that matter. The media asked very detailed and pointed questions in the beginning and then it seemed like they decided to follow LE's lead.

I would expect the media to have been pressing for press conferences/updates but for some reason they have not been doing that. The media has been content to do stories with family but I don't see them pestering LE, which should be expected, especially by this time. Makes me wonder if LE told media this was a different type of case and asked for their cooperation.

Seems like a cat and mouse game going on here with media and even families being patient while the cat stalks the mouse. We here at WS seem to be more impatient about this than family or media- that seems odd.

 

[whiskers]

Maybe they haven't caught BG because the BG in the video/picture capture is not the monster who actually murdered them.

We still don't know if the guy on the bridge matches the voice.

 

[Evania]

Yes you are right the media is being very quiet too for that matter. The media asked very detailed and pointed questions in the beginning and then it seemed like they decided to follow LE's lead.

I would expect the media to have been pressing for press conferences/updates but for some reason they have not been doing that. The media has been content to do stories with family but I don't see them pestering LE, which should be expected, especially by this time. Makes me wonder if LE told media this was a different type of case and asked for their cooperation.

Seems like a cat and mouse game going on here with media and even families being patient while the cat stalks the mouse. We here at WS seem to be more impatient about this than family or media- that seems odd.

I agree with everything you said. Everything is very quiet. I truly think that LE knows way more than they are letting on. I remember a comment they made early on, something to the effect that they hoped they didn't have to release more, and what evidence they did release they hoped would suffice. Now we have radio silence and yet no more releases...IMO, I think there's a reason for that.

I look at the families and see how optimistic they are. I'm following their lead. If they can be optimistic, then I am too.


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[mtnlites]

So in one of the SM groups, the leader is forming a Go Fund Me campaign and getting people to donate for a PI. The leader, who is not connected to the case at all, is sure it has gone cold. I find this in questionable taste, especially since they are virtual strangers and do not have the families' blessings to do this. I guess I am remaining positive. It isn't cold until they run out of leads.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

My apologies Bird and thank you for keeping me straight. LE made the following statement, "Riley said the suspicions arose because of “the way the bodies were found, that’s about all I can say at this time.” Riley did not use the word "position" I picked that up on 2 other blogs but not stated by LE. I will correct if I can still edit or delete. Again, everything is merging and I need to take a break on my posting. I appreciate your contributions.

Quick update for my corrective actions since I can still edit this posting. I contacted the moderators to omit my incorrect statement. Again Bird I greatly appreciate you calling me on that one.

Oh, I wasn't trying to criticize your comment, only trying to keep things straight in my own mind. As I mentioned to a previous poster yesterday, I think we've reached a point in time where facts aren't always fresh in our mind and the way MSM adds their own commentary, it's hard to remember fact from conjecture. Add to that the numerous social media sites, opinions, rumors and well, it starts to become a ..... I remember hearing that but can't remember where scenario.

And while typing the above paragraph it reminded me how people's memories can start to fade and details become a little less clear and one starts questionig their own recollection of events. I think it also demonstrates how easy it is for a witness (generically speaking) to forget the finer details of their statements made early in a case

 

[NotToday]

Their obvious stress from the get go, made me think that they had to listen to the whole thing IMO.

Discovering Abby and Libby, Processing the scene...THEN recovering the audio. Bless everyone involved in their search and rescue. Let BG meet someone far worse than he is.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

It appears that the media are cooperating with LE too in that they are letting them do their job no matter what suspicions they may have of who did the crime. Imo when this is solved they will have the biggest story of their career and a lot of other crimes will be solved also. They are willing to wait to be rewarded with the exclusive when LE makes the arrest.

Yes you are right the media is being very quiet too for that matter. The media asked very detailed and pointed questions in the beginning and then it seemed like they decided to follow LE's lead.

I would expect the media to have been pressing for press conferences/updates but for some reason they have not been doing that. The media has been content to do stories with family but I don't see them pestering LE, which should be expected, especially by this time. Makes me wonder if LE told media this was a different type of case and asked for their cooperation.

Seems like a cat and mouse game going on here with media and even families being patient while the cat stalks the mouse. We here at WS seem to be more impatient about this than family or media- that seems odd.

In agreement IMO that the media appears quiet. But I never thought of it in the terms either one of you do. I always figured it was how most cases are with the media. As time and life goes on, and with no new updates, what exactly can the media report about?

 

[Molecularblonde]

Yes positioning - was trying to avoid the extreme but staging can be as simple as oriented north/south for instance or sexually displayed. Arms outstretched, face down, on and on.

Yes, I understand now.

Even the idea of an orientation with respect to North/South or even if the bodies were sort up in a strange sort of proximity to one another could be "staging".
Again, I sort of always thought staging had to deal with a sexual innuendo. That's why I learn so much from this site.

Steleheart...
i have voiced this often here. Why didn't LE tell us how the deaths occurred? There was a case with a woman named Missy, "Terry" Beavers. They caught her killer on a camera wielding a hammer. They said this hammer contributed to her death.

Don't you think that the public knew the cause of death it would help the investigation?

again, I have posted this a lot. This site is amazing, but people here feel that LE would be compromising the investigation if they revealed the cause of deaths.

Still, I feel like if they posted it in the Missy Beavers case, why NOT here?

Thanks for your insight.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Don't you think that the public knew the cause of death it would help the investigation?

again, I have posted this a lot. This site is amazing, but people here feel that LE would be compromising the investigation if they revealed the cause of deaths.

Still, I feel like if they posted it in the Missy Beavers case, why NOT here?

Thanks for your insight.

<snipped by me>

I think a great number of people here agree with your thoughts. I'm puzzled as many are as to why they haven't released more info. I wish we had a member who is in LE who could shed some light on this very question.

 

[gregjrichards]

Maybe they haven't caught BG because the BG in the video/picture capture is not the monster who actually murdered them.

We still don't know if the guy on the bridge matches the voice.

The fact he hasn't come forward, that Liberty felt the need to record him and the timing of the attack make it unlikely to not be him in my opinion.

 

[Molecularblonde]

<snipped by me>

I think a great number of people here agree with your thoughts. I'm puzzled as many are as to why they haven't released more info. I wish we had a member who is in LE who could shed some light on this very question.

I am thrilled that you are as puzzled and as I am about the situation. I feel sometimes like I am the only one who is I question with *how* the girls died. Just so that it can lead to who their killers were. Why is the manner of death not disclosed by LE?

My husband is in LE....sort of. He's a trauma surgeron. He's always encouraged by LE to disclose the very smallest detail about how a death occurred. It is not considered gossipy or salacious. But merely informative to a community that might need to look at one of their own...

Like perhaps if the girls were assaulted by a knife and a person had a knif collection and was missing one. Perhaps they had used it to kill the girls and then thrown it into a river.

it makes no sense why they have the surgeons and EMTS Ddisclose so much but release so little to the public?

 

[DeDee]

Anybody any good at finding out if there were any auctions going on in or near Carroll County beginning week of Feb 8th thru Feb 15th.

I haven't found much luck researching....maybe somebody is better at this?

Thanks

Perhaps by joining a local FB group that offers gently used items or valuable items, such as weapons and bows, where residents can post for the purpose of selling their stuff was used. Those items, if any, would be deleted once sold. Personal FB pages are closed by FB when the user attempts to sell weapons and related items.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

I am thrilled that you are as puzzled and as I am about the situation. I feel sometimes like I am the only one who is I question with *how* the girls died. Just so that it can lead to who their killers were. Why is the manner of death not disclosed by LE?

My husband is in LE....sort of. He is a trauma physician. He is always encouraged by LE to disclose to the very detail about how a death occurred. It is not considered gossipy or salacious. But merely informative to a community that might need to look at one of their own...

BBM - I can think of a number of reasons but I'm not in LE so can't say for certain.

To prevent false confessions
Because there was some type of 'signatue' to the killing
Maybe if they disclosed the manner it would give away who they are looking for (?) maybe it was ritualistic, etc.

All MOO.

 

[Steleheart]

Yes, I understand now.

Even the idea of an orientation with respect to North/South or even if the bodies were sort up in a strange sort of proximity to one another could be "staging".
Again, I sort of always thought staging had to deal with a sexual innuendo. That's why I learn so much from this site.

Steleheart...
i have voiced this often here. Why didn't LE tell us how the deaths occurred? There was a case with a woman named Missy, "Terry" Beavers. They caught her killer on a camera wielding a hammer. They said this hammer contributed to her death.

Don't you think that the public knew the cause of death it would help the investigation?

again, I have posted this a lot. This site is amazing, but people here feel that LE would be compromising the investigation if they revealed the cause of deaths.

Still, I feel like if they posted it in the Missy Beavers case, why NOT here?

Thanks for your insight.

BBM:
Actually LE thinks it would compromise the investigation if they were to reveal the COD, not the public at large. I simply don't disagree with LE right now because I don't know what they know.

You mention Missy Beavers and they released COD as they so often do in so many cases. It's common. How did that information help the public help LE?

But I have never seen a case where the FBI rolled out 6000 electronic billboards in 48 states within DAYS of releasing what little they did reveal even while saying they hoped they would not have to release more. Something is different here and I STILL Feel they have a signature here that they recognize . 48 states.

SO to your question, if LE thinks the investigation integrity is that important to protect, what would I do differently if I knew the COD was say slashing vs choking. What would the 3000 residents of Delphi do differently to help ID BG if they have that information.

Here, I would do what I am doing. I personally think it's a curiosity interest for the general public. What would we @ WS do differently?

But LE wants to catch this guy and not make any errors or lose it on appeal. They have to look forward. I think they hope that this possible SK did make an error. Strike out near home.

All JMO of course.