IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #59

[MistyWaters]

[video=twitter;833751458885537793]https://twitter.com/VanwykWTHR/status/833751458885537793[/video]

Did you notice the other three sides of crime scene tape in that video? I only see the one directly in front of the camera. For all we know it might encompasses several acres of rolling and slooping land and the video only shows one corner section. I don't ever recall anyone mentioned the size of the area it encompassed, do you?

I have faith that LE has conducted this investigation beyond reproach. If we are to believe they walked away from a crime scene without searching for tracks, hair or lost objects at the very least, then we also are suggesting they are incompetent. Do people really believe that just because they don't notice that leaves have been disturbed? I guarantee you, I could rake my grass clean and if I scattered around bags of my neighbours leaves, one would never know those leaves hadn't arrived naturally.

 

[MistyWaters]

sorry, I keep thinking his cap is camo colored, I may be wrong, some see brown or a hood.

Okay, thanks. It was the "all in cameo" that I was wondering what I missed. I think in all rural areas cameo caps are utterly common. It's as if it's a symbol of anti-urbanism.

 

[kirkassoc]

I didnt realize Lyric and Elizabeth's remains were found so far apart, I presumed they were right next to each other for some reason. I also notice that they seem to be in a straight line across from one another. I wonder if Abby and Libby's remains were also similarly (or even identically?) positioned as well? I am with the camp that believes we have a serial killer here and do believe it's very likely these 2 cases are indeed connected to the same monster. (I obviously cant say I'm extremely certain of these things, but I definitely lean this way strongly). Also of note from these set of photos from Iowa, in the one showing the LE vehicles parked, it looks neatly mowed right there. Had a park groundskeeper recently cleared that area of leaves. When would that have been done? This was in December their remains were found right? Leaves would have fallen in mid to late October or November depending how temps were that fall..Just wondering how a groundskeepers may have not seen their remains prior (and including in summertime mowing too). Had they determined that Lyric and Elizabeth's remains had been there since July when they were taken? This case eats away at me very much also. I do need to finish up reading their thread here on WS as I have not had time to go through the entire thing yet. Who else here thinks these 2 cases are connected or at least are willing to consider it a possibility? I know a few members here are working on this diligently, bless your hearts. But the main thing I am rambling about now, is basically wondering if you guys think that Libby and Abby's remains were also found similarly spaced apart and in a line like this?

I was lurking until I saw this post, but I've been following this case since day one. At the very beginning of this case, I remember hearing a msm report that said the bodies were found at the foot of "two" embankments. I remember thinking, "Were they found in two separate areas near each other or were there two hills and they both were at the bottom, together?" I still have that picture in my mind, because it was early on that I heard the two embankments. Then, the LE reported knowing it was a homicide because of the "way the bodies were found." So, I just assumed they were found near each other but in separate areas. I am not good at finding old msm reports, etc. But, I do have a pretty good memory. I DO feel like this could be a serial killer and that these two cases might be related. JMO.

 

[No it's not]

[video=twitter;833751458885537793]https://twitter.com/VanwykWTHR/status/833751458885537793[/video]

Almost looks like someone "framed in" that area with deadwood..

-Nin

 

[rosesfromangels]

Similar to the Chelsea Bruck case, I hope LE is running routine DNA profile tests. That's how Chelsea's Perp was identified, when he was arrested for stealing, and there was a match on the DNA/prints. These type of Perps don't commit just one horrific crime and retire. I believe this is how this miscreant will be caught as well. DNA hit...and it can't come soon enough. That, or the footprints. And as far as a "profile", which we have all been speculating on, I keep thinking about three things: 1.) position of "authority" occupation (2)Hunter (3)Sees women as "things" not human; frequents *young* prostitutes.

 

[Evania]

I was lurking until I saw this post, but I've been following this case since day one. At the very beginning of this case, I remember hearing a msm report that said the bodies were found at the foot of "two" embankments. I remember thinking, "Were they found in two separate areas near each other or were there two hills and they both were at the bottom, together?" I still have that picture in my mind, because it was early on that I heard the two embankments. Then, the LE reported knowing it was a homicide because of the "way the bodies were found." So, I just assumed they were found near each other but in separate areas. I am not good at finding old msm reports, etc. But, I do have a pretty good memory. I DO feel like this could be a serial killer and that these two cases might be related. JMO.

Welcome to Web Sleuths!

I really like your insight, as that was a good catch.
I hope you stick around and share your insights with us!


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[Steleheart]

Almost looks like someone "framed in" that area with deadwood..

-Nin

The area just beyond the flower bouquet is grassy with very few leaves.

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

I was lurking until I saw this post, but I've been following this case since day one. At the very beginning of this case, I remember hearing a msm report that said the bodies were found at the foot of "two" embankments. I remember thinking, "Were they found in two separate areas near each other or were there two hills and they both were at the bottom, together?" I still have that picture in my mind, because it was early on that I heard the two embankments. Then, the LE reported knowing it was a homicide because of the "way the bodies were found." So, I just assumed they were found near each other but in separate areas. I am not good at finding old msm reports, etc. But, I do have a pretty good memory. I DO feel like this could be a serial killer and that these two cases might be related. JMO.

thank you for you coming out of lurkdom! And btw, when this first happened in Delphi, I know that they did a short blurb on the news and said that investigators from Iowa contacted them to compare notes and publicly declared they do not believe these 2 cases are related despite several obvious similarities.....but..........I just dont believe that...I think they are bluffing...and besides, they didnt (and still don't IMO) know who killed Libby and Abby and how could they ascertain in the very first day or 2 after the murders, if the 2 were related or not?? How could they possibly make that declaration when the investigation in Delphi was in its infancy?? I don't understand how they could at all. (the obvious devils advocate would say either Iowa knows who killed Lyric and Elizabeth but can't prove it yet, or the mode of murder/weapon was totally different, which may indeed be true for all we know, but that should not eliminate a perp because sometimes they change MO's to remain undetected) All JMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Did you notice the other three sides of crime scene tape in that video? I only see the one directly in front of the camera. For all we know it might encompasses several acres of rolling and slooping land and the video only shows one corner section. I don't ever recall anyone mentioned the size of the area it encompassed, do you?

I have faith that LE has conducted this investigation beyond reproach. If we are to believe they walked away from a crime scene without searching for tracks, hair or lost objects at the very least, then we also are suggesting they are incompetent. Do people really believe that just because they don't notice that leaves have been disturbed? I guarantee you, I could rake my grass clean and if I scattered around bags of my neighbours leaves, one would never know those leaves hadn't arrived naturally.

I don't follow what you are saying here, I'm afraid. Who is saying the crime scene wasn't searched properly or that LE is incompetent and scattered leaves around? Also, the CS clearly wasn't "several acres" as that would have extended right back up the hill and the girls were just 50-60 feet from the creek edge.

 

[mtnlites]

Such a thoughtful post, thank you. I agree with what you have shared. I too am vested in this case. Some of the cases I am physically sickened by. However, I tread lightly and seldom post, these victims did not deserve this! Neither did their families. Life is forever changed and hard to travel, I can tell you from experience losing a young loved one to a tragic death. I was never the same, nor will be and must be gentle, as I am weakened.

Thank you. I am much in the same boat as you. I lost my young son tragically a few years ago. It probably colors my outlook on this case because I always find myself feeling an extreme amount of compassion for the families. From my own experience, my real grief didn't settle in until about the six-month mark. Up until that point, I was running on adrenaline and fumes, basically walking around in shock. I hope these families have good support systems that will be there for them in the upcoming months because I found that things just keep getting harder in that first year, not better. (It took me around 3 years before I wasn't consumed by the memory of my child and their death.)

 

[ab01]

Perhaps more can be gleaned from RL saying that the crime scene was pristine, rather than focusing on weather or not it actually was.....moo


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[mtnlites]

Okay, thanks. It was the "all in cameo" that I was wondering what I missed. I think in all rural areas cameo caps are utterly common. It's as if it's a symbol of anti-urbanism.

It's true. My husband is not a hunter or fisherman. In fact, he is an urbanite and university professor from London, England. He moved to the US when we got married. He's about as far removed from being a country boy as he can be. But, well, we live in the mountains now on a farm. He wears a camo hat just because they're popular, he can find one in every store, and he likes to keep the sun off his head.

 

[MistyWaters]

"INDIANAPOLIS – A bill that would require all felony arrestees to submit a DNA sample is headed to the governor’s desk for his final decision.

Senate Bill 322 requires the sample to be taken by a cheek swab along with fingerprints, photographs during the arrest. The DNA will go to through a database, once the authorities have probable cause.

Sen. Brandt Hershman, R-Buck Creek, represents the people of Delphi, Indiana, and he said this type of technology could find the murderer of the two young girls from his district."
http://thestatehousefile.com/bill-requiring-dna-collection-felony-arrest-final-step/31109/

BBM

Subsequent news stories say Indiana Gov. Eric Holcomb signed the bill and it goes into effect July 1, 2017.

 

[Shiressleuth]

"INDIANAPOLIS – A bill that would require all felony arrestees to submit a DNA sample is headed to the governor’s desk for his final decision.

Senate Bill 322 requires the sample to be taken by a cheek swab along with fingerprints, photographs during the arrest. The DNA will go to through a database, once the authorities have probable cause.

Sen. Brandt Hershman, R-Buck Creek, represents the people of Delphi, Indiana, and he said this type of technology could find the murderer of the two young girls from his district."
http://thestatehousefile.com/bill-requiring-dna-collection-felony-arrest-final-step/31109/

BBM

Subsequent news stories say Indiana Gov. Eric Holcomb signed the bill and it goes into effect July 1, 2017.

That's great but that comment makes me think they haven't so far got a match.

 

[LaneGirl]

That's great but that comment makes me think they haven't so far got a match.

I don't think they do, otherwise we'd have an arrest.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

IIRC .... we are not sure when this was recorded in relation to the crime. Many sleuthers feel his voice is controlled and commanding.
When I listened to this again, I hear " they're down the hill"
almost as if BG is speaking to someone other than the girls.
Maybe BG had Libby's phone in his possession at some time.

Question: Could the video and the voice loop have been saved by LE from iCloud? And not directly from the phone itself?
If so, he may not have known it was recording

JMO and it changes

Having just listened to that recording I think I hear splashing or someone walking in water and you may possibly be right.

 

[Peace777]

Processing a crime scene area and it lists types of search patterns that investigators use at different types of crime scenes. This article says grid search is best for fields or woods, or the line grid search. FWIW https://www.universalclass.com/articles/law/processing-a-crime-scene.htm

 

[Evania]

Thank you. I am much in the same boat as you. I lost my young son tragically a few years ago. It probably colors my outlook on this case because I always find myself feeling an extreme amount of compassion for the families. From my own experience, my real grief didn't settle in until about the six-month mark. Up until that point, I was running on adrenaline and fumes, basically walking around in shock. I hope these families have good support systems that will be there for them in the upcoming months because I found that things just keep getting harder in that first year, not better. (It took me around 3 years before I wasn't consumed by the memory of my child and their death.)

My heart truly hurts for you...I am so so sorry for your loss. Although, it will never completely be the same again, I'm glad that you are finding some measure of solace and strength as you go on. (((hugs)))

Thankfully, Delphi seems like such a close knit community. They seem to have really rallied around in their love and support of the families of these precious girls. What a blessing to have a community like that when you need them the most...


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[Shiressleuth]

I didnt realize Lyric and Elizabeth's remains were found so far apart, I presumed they were right next to each other for some reason. I also notice that they seem to be in a straight line across from one another. I wonder if Abby and Libby's remains were also similarly (or even identically?) positioned as well? I am with the camp that believes we have a serial killer here and do believe it's very likely these 2 cases are indeed connected to the same monster. (I obviously cant say I'm extremely certain of these things, but I definitely lean this way strongly). Also of note from these set of photos from Iowa, in the one showing the LE vehicles parked, it looks neatly mowed right there. Had a park groundskeeper recently cleared that area of leaves. When would that have been done? This was in December their remains were found right? Leaves would have fallen in mid to late October or November depending how temps were that fall..Just wondering how a groundskeepers may have not seen their remains prior (and including in summertime mowing too). Had they determined that Lyric and Elizabeth's remains had been there since July when they were taken? This case eats away at me very much also. I do need to finish up reading their thread here on WS as I have not had time to go through the entire thing yet. Who else here thinks these 2 cases are connected or at least are willing to consider it a possibility? I know a few members here are working on this diligently, bless your hearts. But the main thing I am rambling about now, is basically wondering if you guys think that Libby and Abby's remains were also found similarly spaced apart and in a line like this?

IIRC it was stated that the girls were found 50-60 feet from the creek edge. To me this could mean they were 10 feet apart.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't follow what you are saying here, I'm afraid. Who is saying the crime scene wasn't searched properly or that LE is incompetent and scattered leaves around? Also, the CS clearly wasn't "several acres" as that would have extended right back up the hill and the girls were just 50-60 feet from the creek edge.

(modsnip)

As for the taping of crime scene, that's not always synonymous with the body recovery site. In this case, the scene of the crime appears to have began at a location prior to the words "down the hill" being spoken.