IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

[mtnlites]

I think he saw them when they first arrived and was waiting for them to come back

Me too.

 

[mtnlites]

Something to consider...If there was a sexual element to this crime then I do not think BG is neccesarily a pedophile. Pedophile refers to people who like very young children-boys or girls that have not yet developed. Flat chested, hairless, etc. The cut off age for pedos is around 12. Libby and Abby, as young teenagers, were starting to develop. In this case, BG is more apt to be a hebophile. They still like children but are looking around the 13, 14 age range. Still sickening, but a different type of classification. That could be important when looking at POIs and suspects. Hebophiles rarely like children under the age of 13 while pedophiles rarely want children over 12.

All speculation, of course, since we do not know if there was even a sexual element to this crime.

 

[LaneGirl]

Something to consider...If there was a sexual element to this crime then I do not think BG is neccesarily a pedophile. Pedophile refers to people who like very young children-boys or girls that have not yet developed. Flat chested, hairless, etc. The cut off age for pedos is around 12. Libby and Abby, as young teenagers, were starting to develop. In this case, BG is more apt to be a hebophile. They still like children but are looking around the 13, 14 age range. Still sickening, but a different type of classification. That could be important when looking at POIs and suspects. Hebophiles rarely like children under the age of 13 while pedophiles rarely want children over 12.

All speculation, of course, since we do not know if there was even a sexual element to this crime.

Prepare for the backlash as I stated this very same thing in the Tad Cummins thread. A pedophile refers to those attracted to those who are prepubescent.

 

[kat913]

Prepare for the backlash as I stated this very same thing in the Tad Cummins thread. A pedophile refers to those attracted to those who are prepubescent.

Do you think it could be just a tad younger because girls are developing earlier in life than years before? Just an observation from one of my psych classes.

 

[kat913]

http://www.fpnotebook.com/Endo/Exam/FmlTnrStg.htm

Just out of curiosity this shows latest "Tanner Stages" of puberty.

 

[mtnlites]

Do you think it could be just a tad younger because girls are developing earlier in life than years before? Just an observation from one of my psych classes.

Could be. The age itself isn't set in stone; it is usually about body type. Some 13 year olds look 9 while some 9 year olds look 13.

 

[Evania]

Prepare for the backlash as I stated this very same thing in the Tad Cummins thread. A pedophile refers to those attracted to those who are prepubescent.

No backlash from here.

But I honestly think it's splitting hairs, assigning different terms to being attracted to kids. Because although yes, they technically are at different stages of development, they're all still children. That's just my views though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mtnlites]

No backlash from here.

But I honestly think it's splitting hairs, assigning different terms to being attracted to kids. Because although yes, they technically are at different stages of development, they're all still children. That's just my views though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For "normal" people like us, yes. It is all the same. For those interested in children, however, it is quite different and that knowledge can be important when regarding suspects since they are not prone to cross over.

 

[Evania]

For "normal" people like us, yes. It is all the same. For those interested in children, however, it is quite different and that knowledge can be important when regarding suspects since they are not prone to cross over.

Thanks for explaining. Interesting...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mtnlites]

No backlash from here.

But I honestly think it's splitting hairs, assigning different terms to being attracted to kids. Because although yes, they technically are at different stages of development, they're all still children. That's just my views though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In moralizing, they are both wrong and equally bad. In understanding criminal behavior and profiling, however, it is useful to consider.

 

[Maplesyrup]

No, he came prepared. Premeditated.

I agree. Definitely premeditation.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think any phone numbers going in and out of the girls phone LE has.

The problem is if its a burner phone they can't trace it to a person. Only a location when it hits a cell tower.

Sapere's point is the cell phone towers will have BG's phone details whether or not he contacted the girls. It may not be a burner phone.
@ Sapere, a 'burner' phone is a non contract pay as you go phone so no name or address details as I understand.

 

[LaneGirl]

No backlash from here.

But I honestly think it's splitting hairs, assigning different terms to being attracted to kids. Because although yes, they technically are at different stages of development, they're all still children. That's just my views though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is and isn't especially when talking say 5, 6 and 7 year olds.

Its totally different thats why I think we need to use the correct term. People used the term pedophile for a 50 yr old attracted to a 15 year old and while that may be disgusting its a bit different than a 50 year old with a 5 year old correct? We shouldn't water down the term when its used for small children, I think, I could be wrong.

 

[Shiressleuth]

We had years ago a robbery in Austria. An artifact had been stolen. They caught the thief, since the they knew an unusual prepaid number had logged in near the museum at midnight. It was a prepaid phone and they found the store in which the "burner" was sold. Occasionally that store had a video surveillance, so LE got a quite good image of the thief and he was prisoned.

That was excellent detective work. Surely LE would be on that straight away in this case?

 

[kat913]

It is and isn't especially when talking say 5, 6 and 7 year olds.

Its totally different thats why I think we need to use the correct term. People used the term pedophile for a 50 yr old attracted to a 15 year old and while that may be disgusting its a bit different than a 50 year old with a 5 year old correct? We shouldn't water down the term when its used for small children, I think, I could be wrong.

I found this helpful because I didn't know there was a difference till this case!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia

 

[tuffgongc9]

For "normal" people like us, yes. It is all the same. For those interested in children, however, it is quite different and that knowledge can be important when regarding suspects since they are not prone to cross over.

Does someone have an actual study that they can link that says they are not prone to cross over? Unless there is a distinct division in the behaviors of the two in terms of how specifically old they like their prey, then it's meaningless. <modsnip>.

If there was sexual motive and if they had suspects, then I'm sure one of the 20+ LE groups working on the crime would have this information.

 

[LaneGirl]

Does someone have an actual study that they can link that says they are not prone to cross over? Unless there is a distinct division in the behaviors of the two in terms of how specifically old they like their prey, then it's meaningless. <modsnip>

If there was sexual motive and if they had suspects, then I'm sure one of the 20+ LE groups working on the crime would have this information.

Pedophiles are attracted to prepubescent children that is a fact and the definition. Could one cross over I guess. But the fact remains there is a distinct division in the behaviors and their prey.

<modsnip>

 

[mtnlites]

Does someone have an actual study that they can link that says they are not prone to cross over? Unless there is a distinct division in the behaviors of the two in terms of how specifically old they like their prey, then it's meaningless.<modsnip>

If there was sexual motive and if they had suspects, then I'm sure one of the 20+ LE groups working on the crime would have this information.

I was a family therapist for many years and we went through specialized training for the diffrentiation. I actually ran a support group for sexual deviants through our state prison system and this topic was one of great discussion.

We are simply here to share ideas. <modsnip>

 

[kat913]

Does someone have an actual study that they can link that says they are not prone to cross over? Unless there is a distinct division in the behaviors of the two in terms of how specifically old they like their prey, then it's meaningless.<modsnip>

If there was sexual motive and if they had suspects, then I'm sure one of the 20+ LE groups working on the crime would have this information.

This is a study (which I always love to read....a little nerdy I suppose) but explains alot...again I had no knowledge there was a difference. Helps me understand types a bit more.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23154903_Pedophilia_hebephilia_and_the_DSM-V

 

[WebSight]

Originally Posted by MistyWaters - respectfully snipped by me for space -
Do you think the still frame has been cropped by LE, specifically the outer areas around the BG image?

- snipped - It is a great question and not something I was thinking about when I did my experiments. What I would like to do is to take my stills from that experiment and try to enlarge them to the size of BG and see how much I had to eliminate from the original shot.
-snipped - I'll post my results here and provide a link if you want to "see" it yourself to get an idea of how much might have been cropped.

BBM The answer is absolutely yes, imo. Wanting to give you a visual but not wanting to post the actual photos on this thread I covered the photos with color. The size ratios are correct as the video still is simply colored pink. The red box represents the size of the shots we have of BG at @70 feet away, filmed while zoomed, using my daughter as the model. BG was then resized in proper ratio to her. The box was drawn around his LE photo and superimposed over her placement in the still and centered like BG is centered in his photo.

Here is a graphic to represent this cropping. This graphic cropped by 50% to save space on the thread, so not acual size of video still:

You really get the feel for distance if you check out the photos I posted on the image thread. For those who might not know, the link opens a new window so you won't lose your place here if you go check it out.
http://www.websleuths.com/foru/showthread.php?336769-IN-IMAGE-discussion-re-Abigail-Williams-13-amp-Liberty-German14-Delphi&p=13406510#post13406510

Thanks Misty for asking the question, I enjoyed the process of figuring this out.