IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

[Shiressleuth]

It is and isn't especially when talking say 5, 6 and 7 year olds.

Its totally different thats why I think we need to use the correct term. People used the term pedophile for a 50 yr old attracted to a 15 year old and while that may be disgusting its a bit different than a 50 year old with a 5 year old correct? We shouldn't water down the term when its used for small children, I think, I could be wrong.

I have a simple term for them all regardless and I'm sure the families do too.

 

[Tampa5678]

unfortunately no. the last bit of relevant information was now three weeks ago when they said they were still waiting on forensic testing results from their FBI lab in virginia. i was actually surprised they shared that, but i don't expect them to release the results. their silence is deafening.

Sucks. This isn't the first time this individual has killed and until he's stopped, he'll do it again. I hope this person is captured soon, rather then later.


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[Deleted member 189081]

OK Guys I am having a daft question day. Do we know if the girls were going to be picked up from where they were dropped off? or if they were going to be picked up further along their walk at a different pick up point.

KR
Reacher

 

[Shiressleuth]

OK Guys I am having a daft question day. Do we know if the girls were going to be picked up from where they were dropped off? or if they were going to be picked up further along their walk at a different pick up point.

KR
Reacher

IIRC it was same point and same person but will have to be MOO till someone can post the link. Time is, however, woolly in my mind.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

BBM The answer is absolutely yes, imo. Wanting to give you a visual but not wanting to post the actual photos on this thread I covered the photos with color. The size ratios are correct as the video still is simply colored pink. The red box represents the size of the shots we have of BG at @70 feet away, filmed while zoomed, using my daughter as the model. BG was then resized in proper ratio to her. The box was drawn around his LE photo and superimposed over her placement in the still and centered like BG is centered in his photo.

Here is a graphic to represent this cropping. This graphic cropped by 50% to save space on the thread, so not acual size of video still:

You really get the feel for distance if you check out the photos I posted on the image thread. For those who might not know, the link opens a new window so you won't lose your place here if you go check it out.
http://www.websleuths.com/foru/showthread.php?336769-IN-IMAGE-discussion-re-Abigail-Williams-13-amp-Liberty-German14-Delphi&p=13406510#post13406510

Thanks Misty for asking the question, I enjoyed the process of figuring this out.

Another question for photo people? To take the photo/Video would Libby have been standing up, crouched, lying down. The only reason I ask is for the angle of the crop.

Webby may be a similar height to Libby. But looking at the angle where would Libby have been standing,crouching, kneeling. Sorry for all the questions but one answer leads to another question and I am just curious.

KR
Reacher

 

[Bird of Paradise]

OK Guys I am having a daft question day. Do we know if the girls were going to be picked up from where they were dropped off? or if they were going to be picked up further along their walk at a different pick up point.

KR
Reacher

Post #9 in the Media Thread so a big scolding to you :crazy:

The 5:30 pick up time is not correct--it's actually the time LE was contacted. This reporting was early on.

Monday, Feb. 13, 2017

-1 p.m. A family member drops off the girls at a trail near Monon High Bridge, an abandoned railroad bridge over Deer Creek.

-5:30 p.m. The girls fail to show up at a predetermined location to be picked up by a family member. They’re reported missing.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Reacher, that answer is in the image thread. Explained (IIRC) by an expert. She was crouching if memory serves me.

ETA it's also explained where she was crouching/sitting.

ETA again..excellent questions btw! And anyone who hasn't checked out that thread, there is an imaging expert as well as Billy Mabou and his expertise who weigh in on all of this. (Sorry if I missed any others)

Another question for photo people? To take the photo/Video would Libby have been standing up, crouched, lying down. The only reason I ask is for the angle of the crop.

Webby may be a similar height to Libby. But looking at the angle where would Libby have been standing,crouching, kneeling. Sorry for all the questions but one answer leads to another question and I am just curious.

KR
Reacher

 

[Shiressleuth]

I want to put forward a two perp/two vehicle/two CS theory.

This is based on the perps both meeting at rear of cemetery in two vehicles. One vehicle is left there when they see the girls and drive to north end of bridge. BG gets out and walks onto bridge while other perp drives long way round to approach south end of bridge and waits in his vehicle. They corral the girls "down the hill" to get them in vehicle but girls run off. Head across creek. Libby gets shot crossing but makes it to shore on East side but collapses. The perps catch Abby and return her later, also dead, once coast is clear of searchers, via cemetery, and to retrieve second vehicle. JMOO

 

[Jax49]

OK Guys I am having a daft question day. Do we know if the girls were going to be picked up from where they were dropped off? or if they were going to be picked up further along their walk at a different pick up point.

KR
Reacher

My memory is it was supposed to be the same location (trail
head) but a different person (never publicly identified) was supposed to pick them up.

No link, just my memory.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

I want to put forward a two perp/two vehicle/two CS theory.

This is based on the perps both meeting at rear of cemetery in two vehicles. One vehicle is left there when they see the girls and drive to north end of bridge. BG gets out and walks onto bridge while other perp drives long way round to approach south end of bridge and waits in his vehicle. They corral the girls "down the hill" to get them in vehicle but girls run off. Head across creek. Libby gets shot crossing but makes it to shore on East side but collapses. The perps catch Abby and return her later, also dead, once coast is clear of searchers, via cemetery, and to retrieve second vehicle. JMOO

Impossible IMO.
I'll find the video where the reporter explains how difficult RL's land is to traverse.

 

[rosesfromangels]

<modsnip>

The post said, or intended to say prostitutes that arent, but have the appearance of being very young, looking like a child. The Perp is apparently drawn to young female children, so i think this is a good place to look.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Impossible IMO.
I'll find the video where the reporter explains how difficult RL's land is to traverse.

I thought RL at 77 traverses it ok though. Were they approaching from cemetery direction?

My theory assumes the set of footprints that led to searcher finding them is from cemetery to CS. This could be a wrong assumption but we don't (AFAIK) have any info confirming or denying that ATM.

 

[MistyWaters]

BBM The answer is absolutely yes, imo. Wanting to give you a visual but not wanting to post the actual photos on this thread I covered the photos with color. The size ratios are correct as the video still is simply colored pink. The red box represents the size of the shots we have of BG at @70 feet away, filmed while zoomed, using my daughter as the model. BG was then resized in proper ratio to her. The box was drawn around his LE photo and superimposed over her placement in the still and centered like BG is centered in his photo.

Here is a graphic to represent this cropping. This graphic cropped by 50% to save space on the thread, so not acual size of video still:

You really get the feel for distance if you check out the photos I posted on the image thread. For those who might not know, the link opens a new window so you won't lose your place here if you go check it out.
http://www.websleuths.com/foru/showthread.php?336769-IN-IMAGE-discussion-re-Abigail-Williams-13-amp-Liberty-German14-Delphi&p=13406510#post13406510

Thanks Misty for asking the question, I enjoyed the process of figuring this out.

That's really fascinating! Thank you, every crime case needs a person like you with the keen ability to put abstract thoughts into visual reality.

The reason this conversation arose again goes back to the dark edge area on the left side of one of the BG photos released by LE. Then discussion of the possibility that while hiking, Abby and Libby separated for a bit, for whatever reason. And LE have cropped the frame to remove the image of Abby who was near BG, perhaps walking along either with or near him.

I don't know that I strongly prescribe to that theory but if so, it's certainly very interesting to think about a possible sequence of events that may have transpired.



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[Deleted member 189081]

Post #9 in the Media Thread so a big scolding to you :crazy:

The 5:30 pick up time is not correct--it's actually the time LE was contacted. This reporting was early on.

Monday, Feb. 13, 2017

-1 p.m. A family member drops off the girls at a trail near Monon High Bridge, an abandoned railroad bridge over Deer Creek.

-5:30 p.m. The girls fail to show up at a predetermined location to be picked up by a family member. They&#8217;re reported missing.

I consider myself told off :blushing: and should read some more and think before I type. I have started from the beginning today so I ask questions as an when they pop in to my head before I forget. Sorrry !!!

 

[MistyWaters]

If Abby was in the video near BG, one thought, if the dark area is indeed Abby's arm, LE would really have no reason to ensure it was properly cropped out. Because even if BG wasn't aware he was being videoed by Libby at the time, when the photo was later released by LE he would surely know that Abby was near when the video was captured. So maybe just for the benefit of BG, LE is making a sort of intentional understatement by just providing a tiny glimpse of her presence?

 

[Deleted member 189081]

OMG Are you telling me they were dropped off at the Trail head. No friggin wonder I can't make head nor tail of anything. I have been looking at it backwards. Can I confirm the Trail Head is the land with what appears to be a turning point round concrete looking place in it. . Sorry from across the pond person taking an interest in this case and getting bearings.

KR
Reacher

 

[Jax49]

OMG Are you telling me they were dropped off at the Trail head. No friggin wonder I can't make head nor tail of anything. I have been looking at it backwards. Can I confirm the Trail Head is the land with what appears to be a turning point round concrete looking place in it. . Sorry from across the pond person taking an interest in this case and getting bearings.

KR
Reacher

Wish I could answer your questions but all I remember are the words "trail head" and a discussion that there are two different places it could refer to.

Hopefully someone will have a link and better info, please.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I consider myself told off :blushing: and should read some more and think before I type. I have started from the beginning today so I ask questions as an when they pop in to my head before I forget. Sorrry !!!

Don't worry. I am forever saying look at the case map or image thread and often ask something and say I'll look it up. By the time I have done so someone else has done it and posted it. I think asking the question is the important thing then looking, otherwise the train of thought gets lost I find. My question about the set of footprints and where they were for example. They must be on the cemetery side of the Creek or they couldn't lead to the crime scene IMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

If Abby was in the video near BG, one thought, if the dark area is indeed Abby's arm, LE would really have no reason to ensure it was properly cropped out. Because even if BG wasn't aware he was being videoed by Libby at the time, when the photo was later released by LE he would surely know that Abby was near when the video was captured. So maybe just for the benefit of BG, LE is making a sort of intentional understatement by just providing a tiny glimpse of her presence?

Sort of saying "we know what you did next, *advertiser censored***hole" .

 

[Shiressleuth]

Wish I could answer your questions but all I remember is the words "trail head" and a discussion that there are two different places it could refer to.

Hopefully someone will have a link and better info, please.

All I really know is it is at the North end of the bridge somewhere? Do we know the exact drop off point? Is it near the Mears property entrance that is now closed off I seem to recall? The official trail begins in town doesn't it?