IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Libby had two sets of grandparents.

The one who spoke in this interview lived nearby but Libby lived with her maternal grandparents.

Grandfather of One of Murdered Indiana Teens Speaks Out
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-one-murdered-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html

I think she had multiple living grandparents according to her obituary, but thank you for clarifying which one you were referring to.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/jconline/obituary.aspx?pid=184160551
 
I´m dealing with another question. Watch the following report on February the 13th. Search was ongoing and Abby´s mother as well as Libbys grandfather were sharing information with the interviewer.

[video=youtube;Kop2LjEGm_8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kop2LjEGm_8[/video]

At Min 1:18 Libby´s grandfather is speaking, that the girls cell phone has been pinging around town here. I don´t understand what does that mean (the pinging around could be determined either by network location data (you´ve to contact your telecommunication provider to get that data) or by smart phone GPS data (e.g. because you have activated an App using GPS geo location data).

Most of the children have activated Apps using geo location data (e.g. "Myphone" will find your Iphone, if it get stolen).

My question is, whether there is any information or not, that Libby has activated her geo location.
If it has been activated, everyone (knowing her e.g. apple ID and password) could track her (my son is locating me every time, when I´ve meetings and due to that I´m not answering my phone).
I haven't seen anyone say whether that was activated on their phones or not. I think they were calling the phones only.
 
I haven't seen anyone say whether that was activated on their phones or not. I think they were calling the phones only.

Phones can be pinged without calling the phone.

ETA - even with location service turned off
 
I´m dealing with another question. Watch the following report on February the 13th. Search was ongoing and Abby´s mother as well as Libbys grandfather were sharing information with the interviewer.

[video=youtube;Kop2LjEGm_8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kop2LjEGm_8[/video]

At Min 1:18 Libby´s grandfather is speaking, that the girls cell phone has been pinging around town here. I don´t understand what does that mean (the pinging around could be determined either by network location data (you´ve to contact your telecommunication provider to get that data) or by smart phone GPS data (e.g. because you have activated an App using GPS geo location data).

Most of the children have activated Apps using geo location data (e.g. "Myphone" will find your Iphone, if it get stolen).

My question is, whether there is any information or not, that Libby has activated her geo location.
If it has been activated, everyone (knowing her e.g. apple ID and password) could track her (my son is locating me every time, when I´ve meetings and due to that I´m not answering my phone).
i don't have a answer to your question but that video really shows just how dark it was out that night. you probably could have walked right past them and not seen anything.
 
Legal eagles can correct me if I'm wrong but homicide just means the killing of a person by another person.

Once that is established then is it murder, accidental, self defense, capital punishment etc. comes into play.

If you go a few posts back , misty waters has a post about autopsies that helps to explain towards the end of the post. Maybe someone else can explain 1st and 2nd degree . In UK we have murder (intentional) and manslaughter (non intentional) rather than homicide.
 
Phones can be pinged without calling the phone.

ETA - even with location service turned off
Oh right. Can you explain how that is done for Sapere (and me please) and how accurate it may be, as well as how that could have helped that first night?
 
We live in a world where innocent kids are murdered and murderers get away with it. First 24 hours being crucial iMO.



A comment only, its become quite common for strangers via SM, to misdirect blame of a perpetrator's action onto innocent people including LE, fire dept or search volunteers etc. Yet those are the very people who willingly risk their lives in order to protect others. I'm certain they are devastated whenever a crime such as this occurs, crimes such as this personally touches their lives. No wonder so many suffer PTSD and other stress related issues. Being held accountable for tragedy by SM must make it far worse.

Because redirected blame has become so common, it leaves me wondering if perpetrators feel justified in committing crimes as long as they don't get caught. For example, "I'm entitled to steal because LE never catches me".

Blame only lies with the perpetrator/s of this crimes, not with those who hoped to find the girls alive.

Off my soapbox.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
i don't have a answer to your question but that video really shows just how dark it was out that night. you probably could have walked right past them and not seen anything.

LE and professional searchers will say that searching after dark often leads to searchers themselves getting lost or injured.

Also OT, watching an episode of "Nightmare on Main Street" on ID, two teen girls missing, then found murdered. The detective assigned said right away it was assumed they were sexual murders due to the ages, which was the case. Very few other realistic motives, especially with two girls. With just one victim, maybe a murder would be more personal and targeted, Imo.

If these Delphi murders were sexual assaults, LE is not doing the community any favors by keeping it from them. This would mean others are in danger. As it is, residents are being allowed to speculate that these girls were targeted and killed for some other reason, i.e couldn't happen to them. Jmo
 
Hi,

I've been following this thread as time permits and thinking/praying for the family and loved ones often. I have been thinking about why the search was called off as well and remember some folks pondering early on that perhaps something the family said contributed to that decision being made. Has it ever been clarified by LE why it was?

Anyway, here is one way I can see this happening. If my child and a friend were out hiking and didn't meet me at the pickup time, of course the first place I would be looking is where they were last seen. My first thought might be that maybe they met up with some friends and went to hang out at someone's house and forgot about the time and didn't want to answer their phones to avoid dealing with the conflict until they were ready to come home, etc. But I would also be concerned that one of them might have fallen and twisted an ankle or something and the other one didn't want to leave her and the power on their phones were out so they couldn't call. (Would they have had cell service in a remote area like that, btw?)

But after a couple of hours or so of looking for them in the places I know they usually hung out at the park, (checking underneath the bridge in case of an accident would be a priority), I would no longer be focusing as much on the park. There would be a point where I would be thinking, "Okay, we've been yelling their names for a couple of hours now - if they were here they would have answered, etc. If one of them is hurt, the other one would have heard us,etc. We might be wasting time here when they could be hitchhiking on the highway to go see so and so, or they might have met up with a friend who drives and are out with some boys somewhere, etc. Where else could they have gone?"

At some point, after a long time of seeing no evidence of them anywhere at the park, I would want to leave to focus on other possibilities and would be concerned about searchers possibly needlessly getting hurt searching the woods when it seemed highly unlikely they were even there. (I don't think the first thing that would come to mind in a small rural town is that they had been murdered in the afternoon at a public park.)

I would also be thinking it would be highly unlikely for both of them to have fallen and not be able to hear us yelling for them. I still would have liked for some helpers to stay at the park while I investigated other possibilities, but after an initial search of the park, my mind would be going to the next place they might be. The last thing I would suspect it that some monster killed both of them in broad daylight. Now if my child had been alone at the park, my initial thoughts would have been frantic ones with immediate worse case scenarios. But two smart, athletic friends out together in a place they are very familiar with? I'd be thinking they went elsewhere, and if they were in trouble, it happened wherever they had gone to instead of at the park.

Does that make sense?
 
Been re-reading. RTV6 on 2-17-17. RL is being interviewed. He says when they said the two girls were missing I never thought the worst. I just figured they got in the car and got with someone else like teenagers do.

The car.
And
got with someone else.

This is makes me feel like he might know more. Imoo
 
Oh right. Can you explain how that is done for Sapere (and me please) and how accurate it may be, as well as how that could have helped that first night?

Pinging is an electronic request in this case to a phone asking it to return requested information. Due to emergency services mandate (when you call 911 and they get your location in an emergency) a latitude and longitude from the phone is sent back via a ping.

So exact locations can be found.

IT's possible they pinged the phone and found the phone Libby was using right away. I'm not up to date on this case so I'm not exactly sure when and what has been released regarding the phones, or the pinging.

Sometimes people use the word ping when they just mean that the carrier shows your last tower used. But pinging is a specific action taken to request information from a phone. The phone owner isn't even aware it happens.
 
Clear nighttime sky or cloud cover, do you know? I've noticed comments about the moon and tempature, but not about whether the night sky was overcast or not.
The daily weather observations (from Lafayette, the closest weather location) for February 13th and 14th I have made available on my Google Drive. There is one PDF for each day. The hourly sky observations are on page 2 of each PDF. Between 23:54 (11:54pm) on the 13th to 03:54 (3:54am) on the 14th there was some cloudiness.

When reading these weather reports: OVC = Overcast. This corresponds to cloudy. BKN = Broken. This corresponds to mostly cloudy. FEW = Few. Quite literally there are a few clouds or partly cloudly. CLR = Clear. No clouds.

The link below opens into a folder with the two PDFs - one for each date.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx0LL2gY_AorcmJFVUxoZFAwY2M

You can find a wealth of historical weather data on the NOAA National Centers for Environmental Information website. This includes things like, satellite imagery, daily, hourly and monthly observations, and historical radar. It can be quite useful when investigating a case. This link takes you to the data access portion of the website.

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/data-access

In my opinion, a very valuable resource.
 
Excellent point - thank you.

A comment only, its become quite common for strangers via SM, to misdirect blame of a perpetrator's action onto innocent people including LE, fire dept or search volunteers etc. Yet those are the very people who willingly risk their lives in order to protect others. I'm certain they are devastated whenever a crime such as this occurs, crimes such as this personally touches their lives. No wonder so many suffer PTSD and other stress related issues. Being held accountable for tragedy by SM must make it far worse.

Because redirected blame has become so common, it leaves me wondering if perpetrators feel justified in committing crimes as long as they don't get caught. For example, "I'm entitled to steal because LE never catches me".

Blame only lies with the perpetrator/s of this crimes, not with those who hoped to find the girls alive.

Off my soapbox.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Hi,

I've been following this thread as time permits and thinking/praying for the family and loved ones often. I have been thinking about why the search was called off as well and remember some folks pondering early on that perhaps something the family said contributed to that decision being made. Has it ever been clarified by LE why it was?

Anyway, here is one way I can see this happening. If my child and a friend were out hiking and didn't meet me at the pickup time, of course the first place I would be looking is where they were last seen. My first thought might be that maybe they met up with some friends and went to hang out at someone's house and forgot about the time and didn't want to answer their phones to avoid dealing with the conflict until they were ready to come home, etc. But I would also be concerned that one of them might have fallen and twisted an ankle or something and the other one didn't want to leave her and the power on their phones were out so they couldn't call. (Would they have had cell service in a remote area like that, btw?)

But after a couple of hours or so of looking for them in the places I know they usually hung out at the park, (checking underneath the bridge in case of an accident would be a priority), I would no longer be focusing as much on the park. There would be a point where I would be thinking, "Okay, we've been yelling their names for a couple of hours now - if they were here they would have answered, etc. If one of them is hurt, the other one would have heard us,etc. We might be wasting time here when they could be hitchhiking on the highway to go see so and so, or they might have met up with a friend who drives and are out with some boys somewhere, etc. Where else could they have gone?"

At some point, after a long time of seeing no evidence of them anywhere at the park, I would want to leave to focus on other possibilities and would be concerned about searchers possibly needlessly getting hurt searching the woods when it seemed highly unlikely they were even there. (I don't think the first thing that would come to mind in a small rural town is that they had been murdered in the afternoon at a public park.)

I would also be thinking it would be highly unlikely for both of them to have fallen and not be able to hear us yelling for them. I still would have liked for some helpers to stay at the park while I investigated other possibilities, but after an initial search of the park, my mind would be going to the next place they might be. The last thing I would suspect it that some monster killed both of them in broad daylight. Now if my child had been alone at the park, my initial thoughts would have been frantic ones with immediate worse case scenarios. But two smart, athletic friends out together in a place they are very familiar with? I'd be thinking they went elsewhere, and if they were in trouble, it happened wherever they had gone to instead of at the park.

Does that make sense?

So at no point would you consider abduction, rape or murder because there were two of them but if they were on their own you would consider it?
 
Good info to know - thanks.

Pinging is an electronic request in this case to a phone asking it to return requested information. Due to emergency services mandate (when you call 911 and they get your location in an emergency) a latitude and longitude from the phone is sent back via a ping.

So exact locations can be found.

IT's possible they pinged the phone and found the phone Libby was using right away. I'm not up to date on this case so I'm not exactly sure when and what has been released regarding the phones, or the pinging.

Sometimes people use the word ping when they just mean that the carrier shows your last tower used. But pinging is a specific action taken to request information from a phone. The phone owner isn't even aware it happens.
 
Been re-reading. RTV6 on 2-17-17. RL is being interviewed. He says when they said the two girls were missing I never thought the worst. I just figured they got in the car and got with someone else like teenagers do.

The car.
And
got with someone else.

This is makes me feel like he might know more. Imoo

Well that certainly is interesting...
This could factor in to why the search party didn't find them.
LE will know if they were murdered where they were found.
 
I have sons, so perhaps I am not the best to speculate on such. At some point, yes, certainly those things would cross my mind, but not immediately. Two teenage girls (or boys) I would be thinking they were out somewhere with a crush they were interested in, etc. - my first thought would not be anything sinister. But if my child was alone, those type of thoughts would take the forefront immediately.
So at no point would you consider abduction, rape or murder because there were two of them but if they were on their own you would consider it?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
53
Guests online
2,338
Total visitors
2,391

Forum statistics

Threads
600,616
Messages
18,111,304
Members
230,992
Latest member
Clue Keeper
Back
Top