IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

[ImnoSherlock]

LE = Law Enforcement
DM = Daily Mail UK
SC = SnapChat

Thanks for clearin that up.How could I forget DM,they've done more reportin than the local media.

 

[MistyWaters]

Indeed, LE only releases to the public what they want us to know and that's the way it should be. I wonder if past entertainment type shows that thrived on tragedy (such as Nancy Grace) have increased people's expectations in general.

On the topic of the search, early on LE was also under fire for an Amber Alert not being called. Based on what little we know, my theory is the deaths occurred where the bodies were discovered and prior to the missing report being filed.

“Even if we would have put an Amber Alert out, it wouldn’t have done this case any good,” Riley said at a press conference. “The short period of time and the location where the bodies were found, it would not have helped us in finding them.”
http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

And from the Petition to Seal Autopsy Report:
On March 28, 2017, State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney Robert T. Ives, filed a Petition to seal the autopsy reports concerning Abigail Williams and Liberty German. The Court, being duly advised, FINDS as follows: 1) On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana. ]2) An investigation into these killings is ongoing. 3) No charges have been filed with connection to the killings. 4) The details related to the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German, if they remain confidential, make it easier for investigators to recognize a false confession as it is improbable for an innocent person to accurately describe the details of the deaths without personal knowledge. 5) Investigators are able to maintain a tactical advantage when speaking with a suspect if the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German are not made public.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ty-German-14-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-47&styleid=21

BBM


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For Beth11311
The date of death is Feb 13th, according to the Autopsy referenced in the Petition to Seal.

 

[Deleted member 196796]

The retrieval of the cellphone is significant in my opinion because it may contain other critical information, for example if either of the girls were being stalked through Facebook or other apps and the murder was preplanned and intentional.

I wonder that because LE asked to look at this man's cell phone. Maybe to check the MAC address? I don't know, but it does appear LE is also interested in the cellphones of people they question, as they follow leads.

"One Flora, Ind. resident said he doesn’t know why, but police asked if they could question him Thursday.

He told 24-Hour News 8 he agreed to a cotton swab test and let police search his phone before they let him go.

The man said police asked, “if I was out on the trails and if I knew the two girls.”

He said he was not on the trails Monday afternoon."

http://wishtv.com/2017/02/16/police-question-multiple-people-in-delphi-girls-murders/

Not having Libby's cell phone has no impact what so ever of researching her accounts of Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, etc. All of the data needed for Feds to pull to investigate is obtained from server side. For example, it will come from Facebook. Also as far as iCloud data being automatic there aren't too many people who use Apple products and not have their cloud service enabled. For example, to use the "Hand Off" functionality requires iCloud service. If the application used for making videos with on Libby's phone was setup to use iCloud the video would be there and would not have to be included in an official backup operation which would mean the phone would need to be plugged in. IMO they do have the phone. I actually think Libby wasn't just smart enough to turn it on but to also ditch her phone knowing it would be found and not by BG.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I hate not rememberin everthing,but who's those initials belong to?

DM = Daily Mail.

 

[Steleheart]

I feel like I must have missed something, I read backwards and also searched our media but I can't find it, did the ME release the TOD? Like we know for sure it was Feb 13th for both? I believe they both were gone before 2/14 but I know there was a lot of back and forth because of the obits. Thank you in advance!


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In most cases I have followed the ME uses the date found as the TOD because after 24 hours body temp does not give an accurate estimate. The Autopsy repoort has been sealed by court petition. Both families had used both the 13 and the 14th for the obits but they don't have access to the autopsy report either.

All JMO

 

[Peace777]

I believe LE has said that the crime happened right after the video approx 2:30 so that makes since.

But they LE don't specify which crime. Forcing 2 girls to go to where the perp wants to lead them (kidnap?) is also a crime. Maybe he pushed the girls, bodily assaulted them before he killed them where ever (at the creek, maybe in the woods or a vehicle that was parked nearby?). This perp or perps will be facing more that 1 charge I'm sure JMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

Aside from the video containing the image and audio?

I think the possibilities are endless. A few I can think of.

The cellphone contains communication data such as email or text messages (we know the family attempted to text the girls). Includes deleted. Did either of the two have communications with someone that was unknown or unexpected? Abby's mom and Libby's grandparents could assist investigators in that regard.

What other apps aside from Snapchat? Were they being stalked?

Possibly GPS data.

Who was on their contact lists, friends lists, who were aware of their trail plans that day.

But couldn't they still get that just by using a computer and logging into their apps that way? (FB, SC, email etc) and contacting phone provider for other stuff ? No need for phone then.

 

[BIC]

Any idea what the video featuring the analysis of the data from the cellphone by the Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce is about?

Given I offered a media link to prove LE has the cellphone, do you know of a link to the contrary that indicates they don't and the data was only recovered from iCloud?

I never said they don't have the phone, nor did I say they recovered the video from iCloud. These are all possibilities since we have absolutely no statements from LE about what they have or don't have. And this is all IMO. TY


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[LaneGirl]

But they LE don't specify which crime. Forcing 2 girls to go to where the perp wants to lead them (kidnap?) is also a crime. Maybe he pushed the girls, bodily assaulted them before he killed them where ever (at the creek, maybe in the woods or a vehicle that was parked nearby?). This perp or perps will be facing more that 1 charge I'm sure JMO

So just my opinion - I think its safe to say since people were out looking for them by 5:30 and the perp was long gone (again my thoughts). I don't think there was 2 crime scenes so I think he got out of there.

My second thought is when discussing "the crime" I think its also safe to say whatever action BG took to start everything in action. So yeah the murders didn't happen on that bridge so some action was put into play.

Since I'm stating only my opinion on this I think the crime started around 2:30 and was probably finished well before 5:30ish.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I believe LE has said that the crime happened right after the video approx 2:30 so that makes since.

But they LE don't specify which crime. Forcing 2 girls to go to where the perp wants to lead them (kidnap?) is also a crime. Maybe he pushed the girls, bodily assaulted them before he killed them where ever (at the creek, maybe in the woods or a vehicle that was parked nearby?). This perp or perps will be facing more that 1 charge I'm sure JMO

Peace is correct. LE stated the video was taken just prior to commencement of criminal activity. E.g. abduction or assault commenced maybe but murder came after.

 

[LaneGirl]

Peace is correct. LE stated the video was taken just prior to commencement of criminal activity. E.g. abduction or assault commenced maybe but murder came after.

I think its just word whiskers

Obviously the murders didn't happen on the bridge. It happened shortly after that but I include grabbing girls for evil intentions as a crime. I'm including all aspects regardless of what separate charges as being "the crime".

 

[BIC]

I really don't know what more I can say. It's states very clearly the involvement of the Taskforce pertaining to the photo and the audio "pulled off Libby German's cellphone by this team...."

Can you quote a LEO saying they have her phone, or provide a link with such a quote?

People are giving their opinions based on what evidence has been provided, just as you are. We are all entitled to our own opinions. IMO


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[Confusion]

Just to throw another wrench in the works, I think there's also a 3rd option. With people texting and calling LG's phone, I think there's a good chance that BG found her phone and smashed it. If he just threw it away after doing that, couldn't the SIM card be taken out and put into a different phone to find the info on it? It seems like they would have found the video/s sooner if they were stored online, but it also seems odd that he'd leave the phone with them. This just strikes me as a reasonable possibility. MOO

 

[yupikgirl]

I am fairly inept with phones, but just checked my Ipad and see that photos and videos ARE set to automatically go to the "cloud" (whatever that is). I don't recall ever doing that manually, but who knows.

I haven't gotten further in the thread than this, but yes you have to actually set it so it doesn't do it. I've tested this multiple times in other cases as well as this one. Photos and video are there right away. Then later the phone itself does an automatic backup once a day when the phone is plugged in, connected to wifi, and has enough battery to do so. Without it plugged in it won't happen. That's for the full backup. But photos and videos are automatic instantly unless you tell the phone to do otherwise.

For me I do a full back up once a week. So not to use all the could storage. My hubby once a day because he has lost multiple phones and needs the cloud for when he gets a new one LOL. He also pays for extra. I want to also add for $49.95 anyone can buy a program to get someone else's cloud if you know the password- or if you have the device. We have it and used it when one of our phones broke and we weren't backing to the cloud on a regular basis. But the software doesn't require the phone if you have the password. My point in mentioning that is law enforcement probably has much more sophisticated software as we saw in the news piece - but the software we have gives you whole lot including all text messages.

Edit im speaking about iPhones and iPads. It's my assumption and opinion based on all the family's words than she had an iPhone. I could be wrong and don't feel like pulling the quotes, but it's my opinion. I would imagine it's similar for other phones, but I don't have a clue. And I apologize for being so wordy- ashamed to admit I skip right over posts like mine that are long LOL, but if anyone wants the software I'll come back with a link/name. For nosey parents like us it's a good tool to read texts without the device LOL


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[Jabarn]

Peace is correct. LE stated the video was taken just prior to commencement of criminal activity. E.g. abduction or assault commenced maybe but murder came after.

This is such a hard crime. My opinion has adjusted since the beginning, but one aspect I haven't been able to let go of is the possibility of two crime scenes. Members here may have been following the Scanner Thread, and know what I am referring.

All that to be said, one crime scene may have occurred on the bridge side of Deer Creek, and the the other on the cemetery side of the creek, where the bodies were found. It's that simple, IMO.

I've been following this case since the beginning and the main clues are:

1) Libby's capture of the video stills released of the suspect, the image of Abby shared on Snapchat, and the voice capture of "down the hill." (With this, the evidence from the phone or uploaded cloud data are key- we can only speculate how information came to the investigators, but either way, the important aspect is they have it).

2) The location of the bodies found about 3/4 mile from the bridge and by noon the next day (February 14) after they were reported missing the evening of February 13. This is important because, IMO, the crime happened fast.

3) The early interviews of the searchers on the night of February 13, when there was no evidence anything bad had happened to the girls, just fear it was getting cold, or they may have been abducted. IMO, it's important to go back to the beginning and take a look at the news reports before the girls' bodies were found. These are available on YouTube.

There are so many clues available on the web, and sorting them is hard, but important to do. Those are the main ones I think about tonight. Some of you may have others you would sort ahead of the ones I listed.

 

[MistyWaters]

Not having Libby's cell phone has no impact what so ever of researching her accounts of Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, etc. All of the data needed for Feds to pull to investigate is obtained from server side. For example, it will come from Facebook. Also as far as iCloud data being automatic there aren't too many people who use Apple products and not have their cloud service enabled. For example, to use the "Hand Off" functionality requires iCloud service. If the application used for making videos with on Libby's phone was setup to use iCloud the video would be there and would not have to be included in an official backup operation which would mean the phone would need to be plugged in. IMO they do have the phone. I actually think Libby wasn't just smart enough to turn it on but to also ditch her phone knowing it would be found and not by BG.

Regarding known apps, yes I think so too. And certain data can be obtained from the cell # service provider but not all.

But regardless even if there was an iCloud backup, that doesn't disprove the cellphone was retrieved. We have so little facts to go by, Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce claims they analyzed Libby's cellphone, that's factual information imo.



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[Jabarn]

Just to throw another wrench in the works, I think there's also a 3rd option. With people texting and calling LG's phone, I think there's a good chance that BG found her phone and smashed it. If he just threw it away after doing that, couldn't the SIM card be taken out and put into a different phone to find the info on it? It seems like they would have found the video/s sooner if they were stored online, but it also seems odd that he'd leave the phone with them. This just strikes me as a reasonable possibility. MOO

I know. All I can surmise is either exactly what you describe, or the crime itself was over and done with before family members started texting, and no one heard it.

 

[Ember123]

1st- Did anyone see the hat pics posted a d or 2 ago on Image Thread? Very interesting. (Although I will add that a loosely worn hoodie worn over a hat might look similar. The poster works in period costumes. Cool!)
My 2nd question- Since we have gone to thread 60 I find that I ALWAYS have to go to Thread 59, select Last Page, click on Link to Thread 60. Are others having same issue? It is a pain.
3rd question- Is it true LE has offered not a word of update on this case and the locals and local media are not clamoring for even a bit of info???
Very odd.
4th - Any locals among us who have anything to share that CAN be shared here?
5th- Thanks to all here staying with this case! I have kind of promised myself to stay and see this through to conclusion, hoping it will bust open any day now, but beginning to wonder ... but why Nothing From LE ???

 

[LaneGirl]

1st- Did anyone see the hat pics posted a d or 2 ago on Image Thread? Very interesting. (Although I will add that a loosely worn hoodie worn over a hat might look similar. The poster works in period costumes. Cool!)
My 2nd question- Since we have gone to thread 60 I find that I ALWAYS have to go to Thread 59, select Last Page, click on Link to Thread 60. Are others having same issue? It is a pain.
3rd question- Is it true LE has offered not a word of update on this case and the locals and local media are not clamoring for even a bit of info???
Very odd.
4th - Any locals among us who have anything to share that CAN be shared here?
5th- Thanks to all here staying with this case! I have kind of promised myself to stay and see this through to conclusion, hoping it will bust open any day now, but beginning to wonder ... but why Nothing From LE ???

1. Yes but I still don't see a hat in the clearest picture but it's probably the closest to what a hat would be if I thought he was wearing one
2. If you're signed in on laptop just go to 'New Post" this thread is usually there. On phone go to Located Discussion and its usually there too.
3. No new info that I've seen
4. Not a local
5. I think LE is still actively working thorough tips, evidence etc. I'm hoping for something to break any day now myself.

 

[Trino]

Just want to post a "mind change" of sorts. After viewing an online video of the trailhead, there's no way the killer could have parked a vehicle there. The area is a very nice trailhead and is very, very open. There is also a spur along the trail, but, again, the killer could not have parked there - busy road with a house near the road, across the street. The only option does seem to be the back of the rural cemetery - sloped, a Monday afternoon, February. Who would be there? Luck was in the cards that a vehicle would not be seen.

The killer(s) must have walked from the cemetery to the bridge, and somehow there was IMO prior knowledge the girls were going there. He came prepared to abduct, assault, and murder.