IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #61

[Shiressleuth]

Well let's go back to the beginning....
To the drop.off and pick up.
We have been told basically nothing .
Imo it's important.

Eileen, can you theorise why you think it is important? Everything is important imo but what are we missing?

 

[Deleted member 189081]

Well let's go back to the beginning....
To the drop.off and pick up.
We have been told basically nothing .
Imo it's important.

I also totally agree. It is what I have been trying to do for the last couple of days. Go back to the beginning however in turn I have so many questions, possibilities and theories as I suspect we all do that I now feel shy of posting.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I also totally agree. It is what I have been trying to do for the last couple of days. Go back to the beginning however in turn I have so many questions, possibilities and theories as I suspect we all do that I now feel shy of posting.

I have to post it when I think of it or the train of thought is gone for me. I like to see others theories as it may just spark that correct theory that hasn't been suggested before. So don't be shy about sticking your theories on here please.

 

[Eileen730]

Eileen, can you theorise why you think it is important? Everything is important imo but what are we missing?

Well these ppl are the last to see them alive.and who was to get.them? ? ? ?
It places this person at the bridge.

 

[Hatfield]

Morning Folks, finally decided to register after following all of the threads. I had figured there would have been an arrest by now. but nope. Since we really aren't getting anywhere, I thought I'd share my own thoughts and theories. There are a few holes in them since we don't have all the information.

I think that BG was NOT aware it was a school holiday. If he is a middle aged man with no kids, he has no reason to be bothered with seeking that information out. I think he was thinking more along the lines of, 'It's a nice Monday, people are in school/at work. There will be fewer people walking the trails". He was looking for a woman to do unspeakable things to. Maybe he was hoping for a female shift worker or someone who had the day off and decided to go for a nice walk and he would pounce then. The trails would be less crowded on a weekday in his mind.

Perhaps he saw the girls or didn't see them before the attack I don't know. He was being inconspicuous somewhere on that trail. Maybe the larger of the girls went off the trail, near his hiding spot. Maybe she had to pee and went off the trail. He didn't get a good look at her, thus didn't realize her true age, before deciding the time was right. He grabbed her and killed the poor girl. Then he hears her friend calling for her and realizes she wasn't alone. He goes to find the friend He concocts a story fast that the girl's friend was hurt. Poor girl on the bridge senses something isn't right and starts filming. But she has to go to her friend. BG makes her go fast (you hurry someone, they have less chance of thinking things through rationally). He is leading her to her friend, "Down the hill." He has no choice to kill her because he knew that he wasn't getting out of the area without being seen.

That being said, I also can't shake the SK theory and Lyric and her cousin. That is fishy too.

All of this just my opinion. Thank you for listening.

Welcome and do chime in as often as you like.

Its a perplexing and important case. Its one of the most interesting cases we have had here in a long time.

For me I followed it closely at the beginning and lately have just popped in on occasion but I do try to read other posts often to keep up with it. Hoping someone will be able to give us the right path to go down.

Having someone new like yourself with new ideas may help us so we are glad you joined.

I agree with the first part of your initial ideas that he may have thought there would be less people there that day to commit his crime with no witnesses.

About the 2nd part though. There is a photo on the bridge when she captured the BG and I think we can see the arm of the other girl in one of the photos. There was much debate about it and her arm can only be seen in certain photos we have seen.

So if that was agreed that it was the other girls arm in the same photo with BG on the bridge then it would mean both girls were present on the bridge with BG when he approached.

For me I think BG forced them off the bridge right after that photo was taken. I think he looked mean in that photo and was basically walking right at them to confront them.

IMO you can see his rage building as he approached them.

JMO of course.

 

[Steleheart]

I thought it was interesting the FBI agent in the interview above said no indication of a SK type murder.

BUT I also heard for the first time the LE officer say "Chance meeting, possible but not likely" which I hadn't heard before. Someone double check me.

So just to bring this over again, I thought he seemed open to that idea but then I realized how LE tip toes around without giving out too much. I think at the time they were sure there was no prior communication but they didn't want to come off like they have proof. JMO

2/22/17
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1702/22/ptab.01.html


<snipped>
"CASAREZ: Now, I know that you had also gone into today about whether this was someone that they were intending to meet or a stranger crime or someone
that knew the girls. But it appeared as though you were leaning upon a chance encounter was unlikely, but that they knew -- that maybe he knew
that those girls would be there.
SLOCUM: Well, we`re not quite sure if it was a chance encounter or -- evidence indicates at this time that we don`t have any leading us to they
were meeting. We believe it was two teenage girls going out on a nice day and enjoying a beautiful trail."

2/21/17
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1702/21/ptab.01.html

<snipped>
"CASAREZ: Do you believe that these young girls at all could have been innocently communicating with someone who may have even not led to his real
identity, to meet that person at this trail for a couple of hours?
SLOCUM: Well, anything`s possible, but the evidence we have thus far has not revealed that to be true. Unfortunately, these young ladies were just
doing what teenage girls do. They were -- they were enjoying a beautiful day on a beautiful trail in a beautiful part of Indiana, and these crimes
occurred.

 

[LaneGirl]

So just to bring this over again, I thought he seemed open to that idea but then I realized how LE tip toes around without giving out too much. I think at the time they were sure there was no prior communication but they didn't want to come off like they have proof. JMO

Thanks again for coming through, yet again.

I was quite surprised in the pressor video to hear that it was "unlikely" for it to be chance encounter. But it does seem that they are tip toeing.

 

[efhds]

RL himself said he walked the woods both night and day before the murders. so, yes, we can make the assumption that he has no problem walking the terrain. i don't think anyone who has difficulty walking would be out at night in the woods.

BBM

A rather dangerously ambiguous phrasing I would have thought.
Gives the impression RL was out there stalking 24/7.
Wouldn't leave him much time to tipple, would it ?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Well these ppl are the last to see them alive.and who was to get.them? ? ? ?
It places this person at the bridge.

BG was last to see them at 2.30 p.m. just before criminal activity began.

 

[Eileen730]

I don't think

 

[Burnt Toast]

I think it is the reverse. He is fit because he walks the terrain day and night. He has horses and would check them last thing at night. I cannot see that as being indicative of anything as it would apply to many people. I don't see why that is relevant.

i highly doubt he kept his horses in the woods. they were likely kept closer to his home. the point of my post was that he appears to be physically fit enough that he would not have difficulty walking the short distance from the bridge to the CS. another member felt that he could have back or hip problems that might make that difficult. i agree with you that walking the terrain both night and day likely helps keep him physical fit. handling a animal that weighs a 1000 pounds or more probably helps as well. it does take some strength to handle a animal that big. we have not seen or heard anything that would be indicative of health problems that would make walking difficult. we have only seen and heard the opposite.

 

[Lilowlet]

i highly doubt he kept his horses in the woods. they were likely kept closer to his home. the point of my post was that he appears to be physically fit enough that he would not have difficulty walking the short distance from the bridge to the CS. another member felt that he could have back or hip problems that might make that difficult. i agree with you that walking the terrain both night and day likely helps keep him physical fit. handling a animal that weighs a 1000 pounds or more probably helps as well. it does take some strength to handle a animal that big. we have not seen or heard anything that would be indicative of health problems that would make walking difficult. we have only seen and heard the opposite.

I agree about the horses also for another reason, we've seen vids of hunting stands iirc, and having a horse put out in the woods if they let them wander is not only dangerous for the horse given they are probably trained for people and not the wild, but also if a hunter doesn't use binoculars the horse is also at risk for being mistaken for a deer, that sounds so stupid when I type it, but from personally finding my grandma's dead wild horse in the woods at 8 yo, with a hunting arrow through it it's possible, the hunter explained his bad vision and gave her one of his own baby horses because he felt so horrible. Imo always. Walking horses out isn't as bad if the owner is riding the horses are capable. Most are, I've lived with a woman for 6 years we took em out. Sorry I'm sleuthing a horse just trying to give help. Also my woods are treacherous I can post a pick of the difference be tween my version of bad woods to compare to RLs land version give me few.

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[cluciano63]

Perhaps initially LE felt that statistically, victims are generally known to their killer, but have since changed their minds. We don't know if they now feel this was random, a chance meeting. They probably thought a solid suspect would emerge quickly. Since that has not happened, their theories of whether or not it was random may be different by now. Jmo

 

[HurremSultan]

First time posting on this thread. But went back and listened to the press conference when they released the audio. Something struck me from the words of the FBI. He asked " I like to ask members of this community", about the day in question. It seemed when he made that statement he was asking members of the Delphi community. He didn't ask members of our nation or bordering states that question. I guess where I'm confused is that do you think he felt it was local? I just felt he was only asking that question to the immediate area. Wondered what you all think as well. Have to pick daughter early from school early and apologize if this had already been discussed but it hit me different today than it originally did.

 

[whiskers]

Well let's go back to the beginning....
To the drop.off and pick up.
We have been told basically nothing .
Imo it's important.

This is a really good point and it is important. Before locals and those in the Indiana vicinity forget about the case, I think it would be beneficial for LE to give a detailed timeline. It's so generic to simply say: The girls were dropped off.

What did the girls do before the drop off? Did they stop at a Hucks or convenient store for snacks and a slurpee? Did they stop for breakfast? This sort of timeline gives workers at these establishments a chance to think about that day again and perhaps suspicious people they noticed.

When Hannah Graham disappeared, C-ville LE gave a very detailed timeline of the day and then evening she was abducted.

There really is no concrete timeline for this case.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

I also totally agree. It is what I have been trying to do for the last couple of days. Go back to the beginning however in turn I have so many questions, possibilities and theories as I suspect we all do that I now feel shy of posting.

I have to post it when I think of it or the train of thought is gone for me. I like to see others theories as it may just spark that correct theory that hasn't been suggested before. So don't be shy about sticking your theories on here please.

You asked you got it.

Going back to the drop off and pick up.

The girls were dropped off for a reason they had a couple of hours depending on what drop off time is correct. I think the girls had a reason for wanting to go where they did and it could be one or all of 1 to 4 below whichever it is they thought a couple of hours was enough time.

So possible purposes of the trail.

a) Meet someone
b) Achieve something ie Find a geocache, or perhaps the photo of Abby was proving a teenage dare had been completed.
c) Do something to enable them to complete a homework or a school assignment of some type.
d) Just go for a hike and a girly chat for a couple of hours

The fact remains what ever the reason they went on their hike it was not to get somewhere because they were being reportedly picked up from where they were dropped off.

Equally although it has been reported as being unseasonable warm in Delphi in February, Abby appeared from the photo not to be dressed or prepared for any type of walk. No rucksack, no water, no munchies that are visible. Her coat is open there are no woolly jumpers just an open neck smock type top. The only thing she could do to keep warm should it get cold is zip her coat up.

Then again Libby's photo/video films a suspect on the bridge all dressed up and in what appears to be warm clothing and all zipped up. So I do ponder if was getting chilly when Libby took the person of interest photo/Video and the video was taken later in the day.

I also ponder if the voice belongs to BG or someone else then ask myself are there two people involved. The Voice haunts me because it sounds to me to be so stern, authoritative and calm without shouting. IMHO I still think the perpetrator/s are local, know the land well. I also think the voice recording is paddling sploshing through shallow water not through dry leaves as I say its a personal opinion only and differs to most.

I still think the girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time and saw or heard something they weren't meant to.

This is actually what I can't forgive . The search was reportedly called off midnight -ish as the girls were not seen by LE in any immediate danger. The only danger being exposure to the elements. FFS No ruck sack, no provisions, spring type clothing missing since pick up time call it 15:30 - 9 hours. It is too dangerous for volunteers because it is dark and could be dangerous. Therefore what could it be like for two teenagers still missing and for all we know possibly alive as they were only reported as missing. I actually can't get my hat on with this and wonder where the helicopter and heat seeking things were.

I live over the pond and I am cross the search was called off so early and if I were a parent I would like to know why?

 

[Lilowlet]

A couple of shots of my woods behind my house for comparison of RL woods. You can't walk ten feet back into mine with lids it's impossible. Briars, foliage, it's treacherous. Mine weren't like this two years ago they were cleared out with paths. Hth for whatever reasons. Imo always

Eta: I'm trying to say if I took my 12 year old walking in them he would get injured, it slopes down and up hills, it's dangerous. I hope those woods weren't as bad. These are woods in tn. But it's filled with briars large rocks, which get slippery because of the spring and creek. It's bad.

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[Burnt Toast]

A couple of shots of my woods behind my house for comparison of RL woods. You can't walk ten feet back into mine with lids it's impossible. Briars, foliage, it's treacherous. Mine weren't like this two years ago they were cleared out with paths. Hth for whatever reasons. Imo always View attachment 117748View attachment 117749

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what are lids? i think the picture of the wooded crime scene area looks far less treacherous than navigating your backyard and its thick foliage.

 

[whiskers]

You asked you got it.

Going back to the drop off and pick up.

The girls were dropped off for a reason they had a couple of hours depending on what drop off time is correct. I think the girls had a reason for wanting to go where they did and it could be one or all of 1 to 4 below whichever it is they thought a couple of hours was enough time.

So possible purposes of the trail.

a) Meet someone
b) Achieve something ie Find a geocache, or perhaps the photo of Abby was proving a teenage dare had been completed.
c) Do something to enable them to complete a homework or a school assignment of some type.
d) Just go for a hike and a girly chat for a couple of hours

The fact remains what ever the reason they went on their hike it was not to get somewhere because they were being reportedly picked up from where they were dropped off.

Equally although it has been reported as being unseasonable warm in Delphi in February, Abby appeared from the photo not to be dressed or prepared for any type of walk. No rucksack, no water, no munchies that are visible. Her coat is open there are no woolly jumpers just an open neck smock type top. The only thing she could do to keep warm should it get cold is zip her coat up.

Then again Libby's photo/video films a suspect on the bridge all dressed up and in what appears to be warm clothing and all zipped up. So I do ponder if was getting chilly when Libby took the person of interest photo/Video and the video was taken later in the day.

I also ponder if the voice belongs to BG or someone else then ask myself are there two people involved. The Voice haunts me because it sounds to me to be so stern, authoritative and calm without shouting. IMHO I still think the perpetrator/s are local, know the land well. I also think the voice recording is paddling sploshing through shallow water not through dry leaves as I say its a personal opinion only and differs to most.

Very good points. The girls liked to take pictures. Libby was an avid photographer. Mike Patty stated they went to the bridge that day to take photos. On Instagram and snapchat, it's all about dramatic photos. And the bridge provides exactly that- the perfect place to take cool photos.

 

[Lilowlet]

what are lids? i think the picture of the wooded crime scene area looks far less treacherous than navigating your backyard and its thick foliage.

Yeah it seems, RL took better care, maybe had people help him keep it clear. Mine were better two years ago the previous owners kept it clear. We got the house in feb 2 years ago. So I want to also say, even in our winter months the foliage is just as horrible and fallen trees from snow and ice. It's nearly the same. Sorry kids, not lids.

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