IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #61

[Hazelnutty]

Stepping up to say how much I appreciate this website, Tricia & Moderators for making this a great place. Thank you, Lil'Texans, Tricia , all Moderators & Sleuthing friends.

Let's help get this Monster(s) and bring justice for these girls & their families.

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[Razz]

Ok my first thought is it was Februay not much grass around. Snow on the ground had only just melted a few days earlier. If he drives up road into cemetery it saves him slogging across his 40 acres thru the mud n slush. Protecting his land and keeping mud from his back door. Feb is the worst month in our hemisphere for getting your animals thru the winter. Most of your hay is gone and you're just waiting for spring. If any other thoughts I wil edit. Got to walk dogs and feed horses back later.

Edit. The video is mainly taken on Mears land walking from the north end of bridge to the cemetery. That does look like electric fencing and is prolly the boundary between Mears and RL land. RL may well let his animals use the woods in the winter and bring hay in a vehicle right up to that gate if necessary. However, the gate looked heavy and not well used imo. If horses and RL used it there would be evidence of vehicle tracks and mud Imo. The woods didnt look churned up by animals at all either. The coughing and hacking up was horrible.

Didn't RL have a paddock and a lean to barn? Was it just one horse?

Looking at the fence all I could think of was what a hassle to maintain an electric fence on top of the fence already up. We would just use electric fence (One wire only) and didn't have a problem. I don't think I'd have run an electric fence in the woods.

Where you'd check the electric fence to make sure it's working would need to be under cover somewhere. The garage, the barn?

I used to keep hay and feed in the lean to where we had our horses.
You'd need a mouse impervious container for the grain however.

And the water for the horses would be an issue too. You either need a heater in it or you'd end up chopping ice. Lots of very hard, heavy work. Always best to keep it simple.

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[thinkitover]

Ditto: relieved to find this thread open again, so any moderator---all moderators---be appreciated. Looking around elsewhere is to find incivility and other rash ways of reacting without deliberate thinking. We must honor victims, their friends and families. This tragic murder story really doesn't belong to those of us they don't know;--- we are honor bound to hold our thoughts carefully.

That's very beautifully put M. Kay. I like that. "This tragic murder story really doesn't belong to those of us they don't know;--- we are honor bound to hold our thoughts carefully."

 

[rilesp23]

What's the state of the art with voice recognition software these days? Since they have the voice recording, I'm assuming all investigators on the case are required to record their interviews, if that wasn't standard practice already? Question is if they have talked to this individual on the recording and have a recording of it wouldn't they have enough to make an arrest? Or would it not be enough?

 

[Keebler]

Giving...generally you feed horses in their stalls which I'd expect to be close to the house. That didn't look like a feed bucket. I kinds think it's just an abandoned cooler because you're right filling that up so far from the house would be an awful lot of work. Also, with horses, would normally have a self filling water trough.


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[Keebler]

The steep embankment is one of many reasons why I have a hard time thinking they ever crossed the creek. I still haven't decided what my opinion is on him working alone. It would be a lot easier to control the girls, but also harder to leave unseen and not let anything slip around others if there was more than one. With or without a partner, I can think of many more scenarios if they crossed the bridge back to the north side. MOO

I hear what you're saying but I do think, though bold, could be done by one person. I think it was one suspect because killer duos or teams, though not unheard of (Buono and Bianchi...Ng and that other guy) they are rare. You certainly could be right but I'm leaning toward one miscreant.



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[thinkitover]

Ok my first thought is it was Februay not much grass around. Snow on the ground had only just melted a few days earlier. If he drives up road into cemetery it saves him slogging across his 40 acres thru the mud n slush. Protecting his land and keeping mud from his back door. Feb is the worst month in our hemisphere for getting your animals thru the winter. Most of your hay is gone and you're just waiting for spring. If any other thoughts I wil edit. Got to walk dogs and feed horses back later.

Edit. The video is mainly taken on Mears land walking from the north end of bridge to the cemetery. That does look like electric fencing and is prolly the boundary between Mears and RL land. RL may well let his animals use the woods in the winter and bring hay in a vehicle right up to that gate if necessary. However, the gate looked heavy and not well used imo. If horses and RL used it there would be evidence of vehicle tracks and mud Imo. The woods didnt look churned up by animals at all either. The coughing and hacking up was horrible.

My two cents:
1. It may just be a bucket laying around. I have several across my land. Carried a dead possum away from the house so dogs wouldn't eat it. Left bucket cause it still smells.
2. Maybe he didn't want horse poop near the house. Whatever goes in has to come out.

My apologies, I should have replied to Original Poster Gliving.

 

[Keebler]

Giving...generally you feed horses in their stalls which I'd expect to be close to the house. That didn't look like a feed bucket. I kinds think it's just an abandoned cooler because you're right filling that up so far from the house would be an awful lot of work. Also, with horses, would normally have a self filling water trough.


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Auto-correct changed this to Giving..this was in response to Gliving's question but didn't do a reply with post in interest of space


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[Tealgrove]

Just a thought....

Now that some time has passed and the "shock" has somewhat ebbed, I think LE should have a new PC. Maybe it's time to refresh people's memories. There is someone in BG's life that needs to be prodded to come forward with that tiny bit of information that will start opening doors.A wife, girlfriend, co-worker, associate, friend. Somebody somewhere would have seen that photo and thought "Wow that looks like so and so" and then tossed the thought away as being ridiculous.

Someone, needs to start questioning where their buddy, husband, etc., was on that day. Someone needs to think that something isn't right. Someone knows. I KNOW SOMEONE KNOWS THIS GUY but are fearful of coming forward.

I think LE needs to step it up, prod, remind, maybe give us just a snippet of something that will provide that Aha moment.

MOO

 

[Confusion]

I hear what you're saying but I do think, though bold, could be done by one person. I think it was one suspect because killer duos or teams, though not unheard of (Buono and Bianchi...Ng and that other guy) they are rare. You certainly could be right but I'm leaning toward one miscreant.

Most of the time I agree that there was just one person involved, but I try to keep my mind open. After everything I've seen and/or heard in my lifetime, not much surprises me anymore.

 

[Cryptic]

I believe BG's role was to round the girls up, so to speak, and get them to where others were waiting.

I think you are right. Taking the existing evidence further (no indications of an arguments, or repeated commands by BG), it appears as if at least one of the victims was expecting to meet somebody at the site and was at least some what pre-disposed to obey commands from a stranger.

In short, though they seem to have found BG unsettling (perhaps older than expected, or were startled by his seemingly confident "I own this" stride), they did not find him so unsettling that they refused his commands.

I am thinking that there could have been an arranged meeting with a group. BG could be the alpha male criminal, or he could be a flunky who was told the fetch the victims for the meeting.

As for what the meeting was about, it could have started out a minor matter and than escalated to double murder based on drug fueled paranoia, pride, a desire for revenge, or from somebody thinking that "Well, the cartel would do this..."

 

[Bird of Paradise]

BBM
Sorry, Cryptic, I don't understand what you mean about the 'cartel' would you mind explaining?

I think you are right. Taking the existing evidence furhter (no indications of an arguments, or repeated commands by BG), it appears as if at least one of the victims was expecting to meet somebody at the site and was at least somewhat pre disposed to to obey commands from a stranger.

In short, though they seem to have found BG unsettling (perhaps older than expected, or were startled by his seemingly confident "I own this" stride), they did not find him so unsettling that they refused his commands.

I am thinking that there could have been an arranged meeting with a group. BG could be the alpha male criminal, or he could be a flunky who was told the fetch the victims for the meeting.

As for what the meeting was about, it could have started out a minor matter and than escalated to double murder based on drug fueled paranoia, pride, a desire for revenge, or from somebody thinking that "Well, the cartel would do this..."

 

[Deleted member 189081]

I am sorry folks I am trying so hard to shift my mind from a local person/s to a transient /s however I am am finding it really difficult to shift from my thoughts.

I still find it easy and still think the perpetrator/s is/are familiar with the terrain and location, plus all its nooks and crannies.


As an ameture Sleauth I still think local, within 15 mile radius and the location regularly visited or known.


I am also sorry for my below comments and don't mean to offend anyone


I still think the girls saw something they weren't meant to. I just have that vibe no proof and no links.


Suffice to say how ever unpleasant and sad the time between finding the girls and the coroner's department, allowing them to be put to rest was very short IMHO which suggests the cause of death was obvious to the coroner or pathologist and allowing the girls to be put to rest.

These are my personal opinions only.

KR
Reacher

 

[Cryptic]

BBM
Sorry, Cryptic, I don't understand what you mean about the 'cartel' would you mind explaining?

Basically, a dim witted criminal who admires the Narco Cartels, and possibly watches You Tube videos depicting their use of over kill violence. The criminal then decides to imitate the Narco Cartels in his own life.

 

[Spiritecho]

Shiresssleuth, you seem to know about horse keeping. When you have a moment, please check out this video of the back part of RL's property. It's where the cemetery road and RL's back fence gate meet. At about 13:30 in this video there's a blue feed/water bucket inside RL's pasture. It appears he's been feeding his horse back there, perhaps using the cemetery road for access.

Just wondering why he'd choose to feed his horse back there instead of up near his house where it seems would be more convenient. Any thoughts about that? Also, is that an electric fence? I see knobs running along the top wire. Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qi_F3hSxCc&feature=youtu.be

Anyone else familiar with horses feel free to jump in. tia

So from my standpoint, that is a sheep/goat fence(look close you can see it is, what we call sheep or pig panels https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/feedlot-panel-sheep-goat-16-ft-l-x-48-in-h), not electric. I think the knobs are simply so you can see where the posts and fence are.
At our house, the blue buckets we use for water, mineral or feed(grain or hay). Or they were full size plastic blue barrels that were cut in half to make to feeder/waters.
I can take a picture of the stack we have here LOL.
It COULD be used for deer feed too. Those buckets are usually to tall for sheep or goats to get their heads down in for feed.

 

[TheVisual]

I am sorry folks I am trying so hard to shift my mind from a local person/s to a transient /s however I am am finding it really difficult to shift from my thoughts.

I still find it easy and still think the perpetrator/s is/are familiar with the terrain and location, plus all its nooks and crannies.


As an ameture Sleauth I still think local, within 15 mile radius and the location regularly visited or known.
I am also sorry for my below comments and don't mean to offend anyone
I still think the girls saw something they weren't meant to. I just have that vibe no proof and no links.
Suffice to say how ever unpleasant and sad the time between finding the girls and the coroner's department, allowing them to be put to rest was very short IMHO which suggests the cause of death was obvious to the coroner or pathologist and allowing the girls to be put to rest.

These are my personal opinions only.

KR
Reacher

If the cause of death was obvious then yes I could understand the time frame(short between finding girls and interment) but wouldn't there be a period of time in this case to fully view the bodies and submit a full report including forensics. In my little hometown a family practitioner would not have the tools to do a complete forensics(as Delphi probably has being a small town). Maybe I've been watching too many crime shows. JMO

 

[Deleted member 189081]

If the cause of death was obvious then yes I could understand the time frame(short between finding girls and interment) but wouldn't there be a period of time in this case to fully view the bodies and submit a full report including forensics. In my little hometown a family practitioner would not have the tools to do a complete forensics(as Delphi probably has being a small town). Maybe I've been watching too many crime shows. JMO

I can't disagree with you and perhaps I have been watching too many Crime Shows as well. but to be able to arrange funerals etc it appeared very quick. It may be perception and different parts of the world. So i will leave it at that.

KR
Reacher

 

[whiskers]

ITA. Summer will soon turn into fall and back to school. If they don't do at least 1 one more new PC, the case will fade fast. We live in such a fast news cycle compared to even 10 years ago. Stories like these are in front of the public for a bit, but then quickly disappear due to the nature of new stories and the way we consume news in general.

Just a thought....

Now that some time has passed and the "shock" has somewhat ebbed, I think LE should have a new PC. Maybe it's time to refresh people's memories. There is someone in BG's life that needs to be prodded to come forward with that tiny bit of information that will start opening doors.A wife, girlfriend, co-worker, associate, friend. Somebody somewhere would have seen that photo and thought "Wow that looks like so and so" and then tossed the thought away as being ridiculous.

Someone, needs to start questioning where their buddy, husband, etc., was on that day. Someone needs to think that something isn't right. Someone knows. I KNOW SOMEONE KNOWS THIS GUY but are fearful of coming forward.

I think LE needs to step it up, prod, remind, maybe give us just a snippet of something that will provide that Aha moment.

MOO

 

[Keebler]

Most of the time I agree that there was just one person involved, but I try to keep my mind open. After everything I've seen and/or heard in my lifetime, not much surprises me anymore.

Yep, I hear you....I could certainly be wrong...so am open to all theories[emoji5]


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[Blue Amethyst]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/maryland-teens-found-shot-dead-night-high-school/story?id=47870214
I read this in the news and they said two teens had been shot. So I don't understand why the COD is not released in the girls's case. Because I don't know anything about SK do they usually use the same method of killing someone. For example all of them are shot or all of them are strangled etc. Do they use different methods over the years? I had thought it was someone local but now I too wonder about a SK because of lack of information. Perhaps that is why LE won't say anything.

Thanks to everyone from WS for giving us somewhere to chat about this.