IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #63

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Tricia said:
I assumed there was DNA like you said based on the comments released. Oh Lordy. I better edit my post to be on the safe side. Thank you
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Hi Tricia!! :seeya:

It was discussed a few pages back and it looks like LE backtracked on their statement about having DNA.

Brighty said:
The Carrol County Sheriff walked back his quote about DNA specifically, said he meant evidence in general. IMO I think he slipped and said DNA when they didn't want that out there for some reason. Just letting you know he did walk it back:

"DELPHI, Ind. — Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby clarified his on-air comments from a Thursday interview during a Fox59 report, noting he didn't intend to confirm or deny that investigators collected DNA evidence in the double homicide investigation of Abby Williams and Liberty German.

During the interview, Fox 59 anchors asked Leazenby about DNA, and the TV station's report said investigators acquired DNA evidence during the investigation of the case. However, Leazenby said he was speaking about physical evidence in general and not about DNA evidence in particular."

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...riff-clarifies-reports-dna-evidence/98351378/
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Pretty sure I read that the police had backtracked a little on them having his DNA. Not sure how true that is though.

My view on Redwine is that it's very unlikely to be him based on the different circumstances of the two crimes. However if there was a list of say a few hundred suspects to be investigated, he should definitely be on it due to his likeness to BG, links to Indiana and history of violence.

I would imagine he's fairly easy to rule out even without DNA, as he should be able to prove he was a few states away at the time of the crime, plus the eyewitness who helped compile the sketch should be able to rule him out from photos. He's definitely someone who should be investigated on a basic level though.
 
DeDee said:
Fantastic work, BigCity! A rebuttal, if I may ....

1. One who manages to google the Monon trails is apt to be internet savvy. My 85yo father uses a cellphone to access FB and other apps. Two of my nephews have never had landline telephone access.

2. Grandkids! Oh, I think this unscrupulous creep is much too young to be a grandparent. I'll agree with possibly having young children.

3. Agreed with most but not a blue collar worker. I don't see this killer able to take orders from superiors so I eliminate plants, factories and truck / long-haul drivers. Friends of my family own a large fleet of trucks in their trucking company. Not just anyone can maneuver an 18-wheel truck. BG at 5'8" couldn't hardly see over the steering wheel. A special trucker's driving license is required to operate them and a course is offered for OTR [Over The Road] Drivers.

4. Disagree. Originally, I suspected a hunter of wildlife in the area and their lakes and creeks are filled with lots of fish and the woods have great mushrooms. That theory changed with the sketch. A range of distance the BG drove to arrive at High Bridge within 3 - 4 hours places him living in a location with various employment opportunities such as being self-employed or a security guard or a medic or a hard core rock star. Blue Collar types usually must work too hard for BGs liking.

I consider BG on the low end of the pay scale for the field, with chance for promotions, he is/was employed as a [WannaB?] professional, with authority, as we hear in his command: "Down the hill". He said it firmly. with a no nonsense tone. LE said he may have been "exasperated" when he said it to the girls. For arousal, he prefers females being under his control.

5. Absolutely, BigCityAccountant, BG must have lived a brutal life embroiled in domestic and civil abuse. He is a sociopath who was lashing out opposed to the psychopath who is impulsive. His exposure to maltreatment fed these fantasies of his. He was excited to have this opportunity with two girls.

6. I agree. Rejection, that led to rage, may be the key component here. It could also be twisted.

There is one more important clue from the newly released data that I took away. BG could weigh as much as 220 pounds. BG perhaps doesn't look like a 220 pounder on the High Bridge. Hence, BG works out and is very strong, muscular and fit. Do not allow his attire to fool exposing his physique underneath. Walking that rickety High Bridge was as a minor obstacle course for him.
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Hi Dee!! :seeya:

Nope, no grandkids or children in my post...LOL

Internet savvy...I would have to say can use a computer, but is not a computer geek. IMHO, there are different levels of internet savvy. I believe he can use a computer, but prefers other activities. He looks to me to be the age of someone who grew up before the first Nintendo game came out. He doesn't look the type to sit down at a computer for long periods of time. IMHO, he'd rather be in a bar, rebuilding a car, or outdoors, perhaps camping.

When I said, blue collar worker I was referring to someone who does not sit behind a desk. He's not a resume guy, he's an application guy.

LOL..all too familiar with OTR drivers, hubby was one for 10 years and dated a guy (who happens to be 5'8" and drives one pretty darn well)

I think this guy is adaptable. I also think he is a sociopath. With that said, sociopath's often have a domineering voice. (past experience, not once but twice :blushing: )

Totally agree with the appearance being deceiving. I don't think this guy is heavy set. There is not much weight in his hips.
 
BigCityAccountant said:
Hi Dee!! :seeya:

Nope, no grandkids or children in my post...LOL

Internet savvy...I would have to say can use a computer, but is not a computer geek. IMHO, there are different levels of internet savvy. I believe he can use a computer, but prefers other activities. He looks to me to be the age of someone who grew up before the first Nintendo game came out. He doesn't look the type to sit down at a computer for long periods of time. IMHO, he'd rather be in a bar, rebuilding a car, or outdoors, perhaps camping.

When I said, blue collar worker I was referring to someone who does not sit behind a desk. He's not a resume guy, he's an application guy.

LOL..all too familiar with OTR drivers, hubby was one for 10 years and dated a guy (who happens to be 5'8" and drives one pretty darn well)

I think this guy is adaptable. I also think he is a sociopath. With that said, sociopath's often have a domineering voice. (past experience, not once but twice :blushing: )

Totally agree with the appearance being deceiving. I don't think this guy is heavy set. There is not much weight in his hips.
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Very interesting all the profiling posted here. I'm basically clueless.
I've resolved, though, that the guy is 40ish, My son and son-in-laws are 30ish and look younger.
His weight might be a little over, but definitely not a roly poly senior. (I'm a senior. No offense there).
I'd have to look on a BMI chart to see if 200 is good for a 5'6-5-8 male. I think so....?


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katydid23 said:
I agree. But did Mark drive trucks as far as Indiana? I thought he pretty much stayed in Washington area in past couple of years.
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The company is based in Indiana, they transport all over the place. He was living in Arizona a while back.
 
Correcting myself - right, LE has not confirmed existence of DNA from Abby/Libby perp.

But - i find it very, very hard to believe that they *don't* have it, either. Without being too graphic, the nature of this crime, as conservatively as I can imagine it, seems one that would be almost impossible to commit without leaving behind DNA. Two victims, potential struggle(s), likelihood of binding/restraining, likelihood of cause of death not being gun-related, possibility of sexual assault, possible moving of bodies.
 
Westgate said:
As someone observing this case from the UK, it's amazing to me that there hasn't been more publicity surrounding this case. .
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I go back and forth on this. On the one hand, it IS surprising that the case hasn't received more coverage. On the other hand...unfortunately, with the USA being the size it is, things like this do kind of happen regularly. Granted, it's rare to see two young girls murdered at the same time, but child murders are not uncommon. I would make a wild guess and say that only 15% of most cases get national media attention. I live in a tiny, tiny town (2,000 people). In the past 10 years we've had two terrible things happen to teenagers: one was walking home from the store on a wooded path behind the library and was beheaded. The other went to a party and disappeared. She was most likely sexually assaulted and murdered. The first case got zero interest even within our state, much less national attention; neither case has been solved.

Look at the show "Disappeared." They focus on around 16 cases per season. Take into consideration that thousands of people go missing each year. To be honest, I think it's just a crapshoot as to which case garners the national media's attention. It's too bad. I wish they ALL did.
 
TheVisual said:
Here is something that caught my eye in the Gray Hughes video (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3QUH4EkX-jc).
Could this be Abby's feet behind BG's left foot? Could he have been going around her(and she moved over to accommodate him) when Libby took the picture. I see two white toes of shoes. Maybe LE blotted out Abby (thus the blurriness around him) but missed her shoes? I'm sure they wouldn't have wanted to give us a picture with Abby behind him. JMO Any thoughts?
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To Bird of Paradise: I have been through the whole image thread and find nothing concerning the shoes that might be behind BG's left foot. A lot of talk about his shoes but not the shoes I think are Abby's behind his foot. Could someone take a look at this? JMO
 
I had a deputy friend from New Mexico over for a meal and asked him questions about the sketch. He had NO knowledge about the case and had not seen or heard about the sketch. He works in a city of more than 100,000 people. This really bothered me.

BG has had ample time to relocate and virtually disappear. He is smart enough to elude LE this long, so he is clever enough to realize he is much less apt to be caught as far away from Delphi as possible.

I hope LE is putting effort into looking at the relocation of men from Indiana to other areas. Working for the military comes to mind.
 
I was so hoping to come here to see news of an arrest. Lots and lots of leads generated by the sketch and it does take time to go through them all.

Here's hoping the one tip that will snag this murdering :censored: is closer to the top of the pile.

May today be THE day.
 
EOA said:
I might disagree with a few earlier posters about the knowledge (significance/timing) of that Monday February 13th being a day off school due to previously unused snow days. The Delphi Middle School dismissal time is 3:15PM http://ms.delphi.k12.in.us/UserFiles/Servers/Server_392081/File/BELL SCHEDULE1.pdf which means the earliest a perp might normally expect to find teen girls on the bridge, absent knowledge of the day off, would be 3:45-ish depending on busing, distance to abduction point, etc, not as early as 2:07 when the snapchat photo was taken (and they could've been spotted even an hour earlier) I'd lean against anyone planning out in advance an attack of this sort on a Monday in February if they were not expecting to find victims near the bridge until 3:45 and knowing it began getting dark by 6:20 -- that's a fairly tight window, especially considering the following Monday was Presidents Day, a more universal school day off where greater opportunity might've existed. Of course it's possible it wasn't all that far pre-planned/scoped out and BG read about the day-off in a morning newspaper or heard discussion that AM in the local coffee shop.

Another point of somewhat disagreement - the oft-pointed out "mild" day. While yes slightly above average temperature-wise, the Delphi high on Feb 13 was just 43 degrees with the low at 27. http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/delphi-in/46923/february-weather/332895 The historical averages as attached are 38 & 20 so yes a bit warmer, especially the sun might've made it feel warmer, but not crazy warm. In hindsight, I think commenting locals are mistakenly remembering the 8-day stretch Feb 17-24 where the temps exceeded 60 every day (and the previous Sat Feb 11th was also a warm day), but not so much so on that fateful Monday. Given later-afternoon temps likely dipped below 40 on 2/13, many of us older generation would prob feel BG was not as overdressed as the girls may have been underdressed (tho we adults know how that often is with kids)
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Just to say that 13 feb was a holiday in some states for Lincolns Birthday (12Feb) so people working for Illinois companies may well have had that day off work.
 
He's going to do this again, if he hasn't already. I would ask him if he reads here to please give him self up to police.
he will be in protective custody due to the notoriety of the case, maybe he can make a deal for himself. the stress will be over with. some people do well in prison as they have no responsibilities really, a little daily work, and a good deal of free time. He will be able to talk about his crimes and have the relief of confessing and bringing closure, maybe even to some unsolved cases.

he will have the right to act as HIS own attorney and will also get center stage to describe his crimes in great detail.

all the cops are just dying to talk to him, question him..if he's reading here I hope he will consider surrendering and showing the world that he can rise to the occasion and take himself off the streets and do what is right.

this is in a dream I have about people coming to their senses and facing their own faults , about people finding grace and submitting, because what can be greater than justice and love of humanity?

MOO
 
:websleuther:Thanks to encouragement from you fellow Sleuthers I WAS able to connect again with Delphi tee shirt place and spoke to a woman who said my shirt was sent TODAY. (Something about families wanted shirts saying First Annual Celebration of Life only for those who attended that event and shirts thereafter, like mine, to say just Celebration of Life. That's what I was told anyway.) So, hoping to receive soon and will try to send a pic! :heartbeat: May this be the week for justice! :rose::rose:
 
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Originally Posted by TheVisual

Here is something that caught my eye in the Gray Hughes video (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3QUH4EkX-jc).
Could this be Abby's feet behind BG's left foot? Could he have been going around her(and she moved over to accommodate him) when Libby took the picture. I see two white toes of shoes. Maybe LE blotted out Abby (thus the blurriness around him) but missed her shoes? I'm sure they wouldn't have wanted to give us a picture with Abby behind him. JMO Any thoughts?
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TheVisual said:
To Bird of Paradise: I have been through the whole image thread and find nothing concerning the shoes that might be behind BG's left foot. A lot of talk about his shoes but not the shoes I think are Abby's behind his foot. Could someone take a look at this? JMO
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My apologies Visual, I must have misunderstood the question.

The image thread does (or did) have a Verified Imaging expert. I haven't read through the thread in awhile, but I do believe it was his belief nothing was omitted, photoshopped or deleted from the stills. There are a number of compression artificats that make it appear something is there when in fact it is not.
 
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