IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65

[Falling Down]

IF he is the perp who had already abducted/murdered the Iowa cousins (and I do think he is!), then he had experience in going off with two girls in his car (work Van). His "military precision" started from this point of getting them in the car; he had only to refine his tactics a little bit (taking them back near the first CS he thought would have been searched already). IMO

It just seems to me that's an awful lot of trouble to go through, abduct them and then later dump the bodies.

One of JM's videos shows the back of the cemetery, where it meets private property. There's a wire fence at the property line. I think it would have to take more than one person to carry out such a scenario, and it would be terribly risky, and there's some distance from the CS to the back of the cemetery, I'd guess around 600-700 feet, and varied terrain.

 

[LaneGirl]

Can someone point me to where anyone in LE has mentioned that a vehicle was in any manner involved with this abduction?

There isn't any.

In fact LE stated the crime happened right after the picture from video was taken. We know there is more video now and the phone was found with them so more than likely they went down the hill across the water and were killed all within a very short time.

The pings around town more than likely is the phone connecting to different towers which can happen even if the phone is in the exact same place when one cell tower is busy it will reroute to a different tower.

 

[htiff]

Meth is pretty much my county's #1 export. I have stumbled upon quite a few portable meth labs in the woods, but they've always been on private property, way off the beaten path. Cooking meth is fairly involved and takes quite awhile. While I have no doubt that drugs are bought and sold in that particular area (just in a general sense, considering that where I live you can buy whatever you want anywhere from the McDonalds' parking lot to Main Street) I also find it highly unlikely that there was a meth lab in the park. We are talking a very short timeframe in regards to the girls' murders. They had just enough time to leave the vehicle and walk to the bridge to take pictures. No real time to get off the beaten path and do any real exploring. As you said, with the smell and such, people try to be fairly discreet. They're not going to be on the main trail cooking it up. I don't think they even stumbled upon a drug deal. I have come across drug deals. We all just turn the other way and continue moving, pretending we didn't see what we saw-the dealers included. Sad, but the current reality in many small towns these days.

And then there's the fact that no one in LE has ever mentioned a meth lab. There have been no articles regarding meth labs being found in that park. Delphi has a very low crime rate in general.

I am a little amazed that I was bombasted for attempting to figure out what region the killer was from, yet this meth lab story has managed to survive for quite some time on this forum with zero factual evidence, of any kind whatsoever, to support it.

 

[LaneGirl]

It just seems to me that's an awful lot of trouble to go through, abduct them and then later dump the bodies.

One of JM's videos shows the back of the cemetery, where it meets private property. There's a wire fence at the property line. I think it would have to take more than one person to carry out such a scenario, and it would be terribly risky, and there's some distance from the CS to the back of the cemetery, I'd guess around 600-700 feet, and varied terrain.

Agree way too risky to come back to the scene when the perp had to know that family would be looking for them.

 

[htiff]

There isn't any.

In fact LE stated the crime happened right after the picture from video was taken. We know there is more video now and the phone was found with them so more than likely they went down the hill across the water and were killed all within a very short time.

The pings around town more than likely is the phone connecting to different towers which can happen even if the phone is in the exact same place when one cell tower is busy it will reroute to a different tower.

Thank you. That's what I got from the articles I read as well.

 

[JazzTune]

IF he is the perp who had already abducted/murdered the Iowa cousins (and I do think he is!), then he had experience in going off with two girls in his car (work Van). His "military precision" started from this point of getting them in the car; he had only to refine his tactics a little bit (taking them back near the first CS he thought would have been searched already). IMO

Great post! Thank you!

As most everyone has heard me say, I too have always believed this perp is the same one who killed Lizzie and Lyric in Iowa.

You brought out some really good points! Thanks again for sharing your thoughts...

 

[htiff]

Meth production in Indiana is most often done in abandoned farmhouses, which are abundant in secluded areas. It isn't done out in the open, where people would notice activity and definitely the odor of meth cooking.

And meth requires supplies. You have to cook it up. The list goes on and on. And again, let's not forget that there have been no reports of a meth lab being involved or even possibly being involved, by any law enforcement source. No report of a meth lab problem, ever, in that particular park.

 

[htiff]

Where is this meth lab story coming from? Does it have an origin?

 

[Falling Down]

Just a few thoughts:

The road which goes under the SE end of the bridge is a private drive, at that point, and people have to have permission to use it. I don't remember if there's a gate where it meets the county road/split, south of the SE end of the bridge, or further up towards the house. The road leads downhill from the split, then underneath the bridge.

There are several residential properties along that road (625 W). IMHO, it would have been too risky for BG to drive down that road, and risk being seen driving not only to the SE end of the bridge, but back out of there. Again, it's a private drive, and according to a YouTube video I watched earlier, people have to have permission to use it, by the owner of the property at the end of the road/drive. A perp could have been seen driving in and out of there by a postal carrier or other delivery driver, too.

Easier to slip in and out of the cemetery.

Just seems too risky to me.

JMO

 

[htiff]

Just a few thoughts:

The road which goes under the SE end of the bridge is a private drive, at that point, and people have to have permission to use it. I don't remember if there's a gate where it meets the county road/split, south of the SE end of the bridge, or further up towards the house. The road leads downhill from the split, then underneath the bridge.

There are several residential properties along that road (625 W). IMHO, it would have been too risky for BG to drive down that road, and risk being seen driving not only to the SE end of the bridge, but back out of there. Again, it's a private drive, and according to a YouTube video I watched earlier, people have to have permission to use it, by the owner of the property at the end of the road/drive. A perp could have been seen driving in and out of there by a postal carrier or other delivery driver, too.

Easier to slip in and out of the cemetery.

Just seems too risky to me.

JMO

And add to this, no one in LE has mentioned that a vehicle was involved in this case. In fact, the opposite, the investigator whose interview was transcribed actually indicated that he believed this all took place on foot.

Can someone please substantiate this theory of a vehicle being involved, with anything factual coming from law enforcement?

 

[Falling Down]

And add to this, no one in LE has mentioned that a vehicle was involved in this case. In fact, the opposite, the investigator whose interview was transcribed actually indicated that he believed this all took place on foot.

Can someone please substantiate this theory of a vehicle being involved, with anything factual coming from law enforcement?

I thought yesterday it was confirmed they crossed the creek, per a LE source? GH's latest video confirmed it, IIRC.

 

[DeDee]

Agree way too risky to come back to the scene when the perp had to know that family would be looking for them.

My thoughts are that BG had a police scanner with him/them. He knew the official search was called off at midnight. Many volunteers left due to the cold temperatures. Search resumed early the next morning around 6:30, iirc.

 

[ozazure]

I don't think it is likely he would remove them from the locality and then return them. For one, it is begging to be discovered, the search was on within the hour. Two, assuming you could get them back undetected, why would you put them back and make it easier for them to find them and gather evidence?

And as for the conditions of the creek, if you are escaping you don't know how frigid the water is until you have plunged into it. As you propel yourself through it, you have the option to turn back or keep going. By the time you've waded in 15 feet - won't take but a few seconds - you are committed. You aren't going to turn back because another 45 feet will be too much.

 

[DeDee]

Just a few thoughts:

The road which goes under the SE end of the bridge is a private drive, at that point, and people have to have permission to use it. I don't remember if there's a gate where it meets the county road/split, south of the SE end of the bridge, or further up towards the house. The road leads downhill from the split, then underneath the bridge.

There are several residential properties along that road (625 W). IMHO, it would have been too risky for BG to drive down that road, and risk being seen driving not only to the SE end of the bridge, but back out of there. Again, it's a private drive, and according to a YouTube video I watched earlier, people have to have permission to use it, by the owner of the property at the end of the road/drive. A perp could have been seen driving in and out of there by a postal carrier or other delivery driver, too.

Easier to slip in and out of the cemetery.

Just seems too risky to me.

JMO

I know one of those homes was unoccupied as the owners are snowbirds. I am not sure about the other home. The Sgt mentioned snowbirds being out of town in the video we've been discussing.

 

[htiff]

OK below is a screenshot of a map that shows where in Indiana meth labs have been found. If you note, there have been zero labs found in Delphi. This may be slightly outdated info, but it goes to the point that not only is it unlikely that someone would have an outdoor lab in a public park--or near to one, but Delphi is not exactly being overrun by labs.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/06/24/interactive-meth-labs-ingov/11304551/

 

[htiff]

My thoughts are that BG had a police scanner with him/them. He knew the official search was called off at midnight. Many volunteers left due to the cold temperatures. Search resumed early the next morning around 6:30, iirc.

Maybe the scanner was under his jacket. Or maybe it was under his hat.

 

[JazzTune]

Can someone point me to where anyone in LE has mentioned that a vehicle was in any manner involved with this abduction?

No, I've not read where LE has mentioned a vehicle.

I've not read where LE has mentioned MANY things about this crime. But does that rule out a vehicle?

Actually, why WOULD they tell us? If they know it to be a fact, it would be part of the crime too. One of those details I imagine they'd keep close to the vest, as they say.

Also, I see no conflict with 'the crime about to happen' and spiriting the girls off in a vehicle.

The crime about to happen is the abduction of the girls off the bridge. Putting them in a vehicle against their will is a continuation of that crime. Doesn't negate it.

I know any statements of facts have to be backed by MSM.

This however, is my theory. If I understand correctly, we are allowed to share our theories as long as they are plausible, and we are stating them as our opinion.

I don't get why LE not mentioning a vehicle is a sticking point. If I've misunderstood, I hope a mod will clarify that.

Please understand, I don't mean to come across as snarky. Tone can be so hard to read, but I'm really asking this sincerely.

I would like to hear more of your thoughts about this...

 

[htiff]

No, I've not read where LE has mentioned a vehicle.

I've not read where LE has mentioned MANY things about this crime. But does that rule out a vehicle?

Actually, why WOULD they tell us? If they know it to be a fact, it would be part of the crime too. One of those details I imagine they'd keep close to the vest, as they say.

Also, I see no conflict with 'the crime about to happen' and spiriting the girls off in a vehicle.

The crime about to happen is the abduction of the girls off the bridge. Putting them in a vehicle against their will is a continuation of that crime. Doesn't negate it.

I know any statements of facts have to be backed by MSM.

This however, is my theory. If I understand correctly, we are allowed to share our theories as long as they are plausible, and we are stating them as our opinion.

I don't get why LE not mentioning a vehicle is a sticking point. If I've misunderstood, I hope a mod will clarify that.

Please understand, I don't mean to come across as snarky. Tone can be so hard to read, but I'm really asking this sincerely.

I would like to hear more of your thoughts about this...

If there was a known vehicle involved, then this would be a lead that might help identify the killer. So why wouldn't LE let the public know? Plus, in the last, very in depth interview given on this case the investigator very much indicated that this abduction took place on foot.

This investigator also expressed some of the difficulty that LE encounters when false information is spread.

If there isn't any evidence, whatsoever, to support a theory, why go there? I don't get it.

http://fox59.com/2017/08/14/lead-de...ave-more-audio-from-teens-phone-dna-evidence/

 

[dove28]

Good point, maybe they did the thing where they just talked really loudly about random stuff to seem nonchalant, all the while recording him. If they did see something they weren't supposed to, they could also have used chatting to try to be like "look we are talking about our crushes not your meth lab that we didn't just see"

EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT THE DARN METH LAB: you're talking about it bc of THIS comment which I MADE. I meant the meth lab part of the comment hyperbolically in that the girls might just have been chit chatting to try to make it seem like they didn't see something they shouldn't have. I did NOT ever mean there was an ACTUAL meth lab there and I do NOT think there is!! If you read my actual comment above I think it's pretty clear that I'm being a little sarcastic in that of course the girls didn't literally say "we are talking about our crushes to avoid the topic of your meth lab."

So everyone PLEASE you can stop talking about a meth lab now!!

 

[LaneGirl]

EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT THE DARN METH LAB: you're talking about it bc of THIS comment which I MADE. I meant the meth lab part of the comment hyperbolically in that the girls might just have been chit chatting to try to make it seem like they didn't see something they shouldn't have. I did NOT ever mean there was an ACTUAL meth lab there and I do NOT think there is!! If you read my actual comment above I think it's pretty clear that I'm being a little sarcastic in that of course the girls didn't literally say "we are talking about our crushes to avoid the topic of your meth lab."

So everyone PLEASE you can stop talking about a meth lab now!!

I wouldn't worry about it.

Many people on 60 something threads have mention a meth connection

It's even mentioned on the Michael Chambers thread of a missing 70ish year old man. It comes up all the time.