IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #66

[DarkSkink]

So you think he was intending to just rape someone and turn her loose afterward? I hadn't thought about that.

It's entirely possible he's a simple rapist. Any previous experiences may have been hiking trail sexual assaults. Serial killers typically want more personal time with the victim. Usually, it's kidnap and dump, rather than assault and leave.

There is also the possibility of a partner, so potentially it's a couple of drifters that stopped for some sexual activity, the only way drifters can usually get sexual activity. By force.

 

[cluciano63]

I think it was a solo perp but he may have been after sex, with murder as a result once he had committed the crimes. Not convinced he was out walking for that specific purpose but saw his chance. I do think it was a random crime, as far as choosing victims.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

It's entirely possible he's a simple rapist. Any previous experiences may have been hiking trail sexual assaults. Serial killers typically want more personal time with the victim. Usually, it's kidnap and dump, rather than assault and leave.

There is also the possibility of a partner, so potentially it's a couple of drifters that stopped for some sexual activity, the only way drifters can usually get sexual activity. By force.

Are you in LE? You state your opinons in a way that sounds like you are basing them upon personal experience.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Anyone what to give me cliff notes of anything that has transpired over the last couple of days?

O'/T: I've been MIA as I helped to reunite two brothers (different moms) who have never gotten the chance to met each other and whose dad left each of them when they were little. I'm so happy and excited for them and they are too. The bad news is, I have to confirm but I think the dad is deceased.

 

[DarkSkink]

You lost me on the sexual urges thing. What do you mean?

That was in response to the idea that he's always on and takes a victim whenever opportunity arises... like he just happened to be on a day hike and saw a couple of girls.

Men, be they average, nerds, handsome or serial killers, are human. They wake up and sometimes have energy, and sometimes feel tired, just like everyone else. Men also have to be in the mood. To commit a sexual assault, one also has to not only be in the mood, but so much so that the urge overpowers rational thought and self preservation. Thus, there is usually a predatory element to these sort of cases. There's a build up until the urge takes over and then they need to find a sexual partner with some urgency.

My point was he's not out in sweat pants, hiking boots and a bladder pack filled with Gatorade. He's not walking his dog. It's likely the point of being there is to hunt for a victim, rather than being out for a walk.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Nin, no matter how he managed to pull this off, does it seem to you he must have had access to a vehicle or was staying somewhere nearby to where he could easily escape if he needed/wanted? Most of this time I have thought it possible he could have walked from town or from the cemetery side from somewhere. But now I am thinking of whether he had any thoughts of an escape if his deed went awry for any reason.

I do think he was there long enough before encountering the girls to know how many people would be around and if he could pull this off (assuming it was planned, if only since he first saw the girls there). But was he smart enough to plan ahead to cover his tracks....

There are some strong contradictions in the little we do know, which I continue to process in my mind.
I strongly suspect he was in communication with Abby, (catfish), and scheduled a rendezvous. Libby came along for protection, which proved well needed, but as we know, not enough.

So on one hand, I speculate he was well prepared. Had his route in and out charted, and his timing with what seemed like military precision. He came prepared with his nefarious toolkit, and was able to pull off his crime without being detained. So, skillful in that aspect of this crime. *As if he had practice* *As if he'd done this before*

However, as we know, he made some critical mistakes. Not only did he get captured on audio and video by our little heroine Libby, but he left behind bootprints. From those bootprints we can tell a lot about this Perp. His probable height and weight, and the boot print may even be tracked back to not only a manufacturer, but the distribution center.

So while this Perp was skillful in his field movements, he failed in his awareness of detection.
Despite the grave sadness of this case, I have to admit I love the fact a little kid outwitted this Perp and captured him on video/audio. Ultimately, it's going to put the nail in his incarceration coffin. Way to go Libby!

I think this Perp is of lower intelligence. Yes, he has seemingly escaped justice *thus far*, but I think it was due to (speculation only), military field training. How to survive in the field....making it out of the bush. Desert storm?
But the fact he left behind bootprints and got captured on video tells me he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

All amateur speculation and opinion, as usual.
This case is making my brain hurt.

Editing to add I just noticed the number on this post. I rebuke that, BTW. I am a Believer and choose Jesus Christ who is my Savior. Justice for Abby and Libby!

 

[No it's not]

Delphi Murders: Plans unveiled for Libby & Abby memorial park and softball field

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...r-libby-abby-memorial-park-and-softball-field

 

[mrtnira]

Roses, to help clarify thinking about this case, for someone who has the time and energy / interest, it might be useful to actually detail on a sheet of paper what is known in one column and what is not known to the public on another column. A third column might include speculation or estimates. Clarifying these things might help narrow the reasonable conclusions to an understandable sub-set.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

No. I do not. The nose does not line up for me. The way the sunlight hits his nose looks like he has a higher bridged nose. Also. That bottom lip looks almost like a frown like he has an underbite.

ETA: if they haven't been able to isolate the killers DNA. Then I don't see how they could have used parabon. Which makes me question the "doesn't think his eyes are blue" comment. It's hard for me to believe a witness noticed his eye color while passing the suspect. I don't think many people would notice what color eyes someone had unless they are very distinct eyes. Especially being a witness who randomly saw him on the trail that day. I'm confused as to how they can be so confident that he doesn't have blue eyes. Also given the witness came forward months later??

I know it is possible that LE does actually have the killers DNA isolated. And they are just leading the media to believe they don't so the killer thinks he got away with it. All my own opinion

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Forgive me, a few pages behind...

I got spooked by the landscaper who does our landscaping at our out of state property. My husband wasn't there and he came to the door. I told him my husband wasn't there and he just stood there staring at me. Of course, he knew he wasn't there because his car wasn't in the driveway. I DEFINITELY noticed his eye color. I think it is very plausible that the witness had an encounter with the perp and was spooked by it.

 

[DarkSkink]

There are some strong contradictions in the little we do know, which I continue to process in my mind.
I strongly suspect he was in communication with Abby, (catfish), and scheduled a rendezvous. Libby came along for protection, which proved well needed, but as we know, not enough.

So on one hand, I speculate he was well prepared. Had his route in and out charted, and his timing with what seemed like military precision. He came prepared with his nefarious toolkit, and was able to pull off his crime without being detained. So, skillful in that aspect of this crime. *As if he had practice* *As if he'd done this before*

However, as we know, he made some critical mistakes. Not only did he get captured on audio and video by our little heroine Libby, but he left behind bootprints. From those bootprints we can tell a lot about this Perp. His probable height and weight, and the boot print may even be tracked back to not only a manufacturer, but the distribution center.

So while this Perp was skillful in his field movements, he failed in his awareness of detection.
Despite the grave sadness of this case, I have to admit I love the fact a little kid outwitted this Perp and captured him on video/audio. Ultimately, it's going to put the nail in his incarceration coffin. Way to go Libby!

I think this Perp is of lower intelligence. Yes, he has seemingly escaped justice *thus far*, but I think it was due to (speculation only), military field training. How to survive in the field....making it out of the bush. Desert storm?
But the fact he left behind bootprints and got captured on video tells me he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

All amateur speculation and opinion, as usual.
This case is making my brain hurt.

It's hard to believe that this perp would be so tech savvy as to create fake profiles using sophisticated VPNs and communicate only in a strictly untraceable manner. Had there been any prior communication, one has to believe LE would have tracked the perp down by now.

Were he that tech savvy, he'd have had a plan for her cell phone. Every parent should be aware of how to log in and find their child's phone, and that savvy a perp would be aware of that possibility.

Someone said they did the same hike previously. Someone said one lives close by. That makes more sense for them being there than a perp choosing a hiking path as a place to meet. He could have picked them up in his car, and have been long gone with the victims for days.

 

[rosesfromangels]

It's hard to believe that this perp would be so tech savvy as to create fake profiles using sophisticated VPNs and communicate only in a strictly untraceable manner. Had there been any prior communication, one has to believe LE would have tracked the perp down by now.

Were he that tech savvy, he'd have had a plan for her cell phone. Every parent should be aware of how to log in and find their child's phone, and that savvy a perp would be aware of that possibility.

Someone said they did the same hike previously. Someone said one lives close by. That makes more sense for them being there than a perp choosing a hiking path as a place to meet. He could have picked them up in his car, and have been long gone with the victims for days.

Maybe it wasn't the Perp, maybe it was Abby.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Wet pantlegs would be really common in most processing plants. They usually use hoses to spray down carcasses to wash off the blood, hair, etc. They do it quickly and in large numbers so there's usually quite a bit of water. The ones I've been to use this method and the rooms have floor drains. But I've only been to 3 processing plants locally, so it might not be the same everywhere.



I don't think it does at all either. I've tried squinting, I've tried to blame lights and shadows, and I've blamed awful cell phone footage and pixelation in important places, but I still can't imagine the two being the same person.

With the number of people who are having a hard time reconciling the BG picture and the sketch picture, is it possible LE DOES have DNA and the sketch is of the 2nd perp and the two look similar? Brothers, perhaps??

 

[DarkSkink]

Maybe it wasn't the Perp, maybe it was Abby.

Now you've completely lost me.

 

[Confusion]

Agree. Since you are around, you mentioned in the last video the very light area on the right side, the pocket area, of BG may be his hand. Could that light area also be 2 parts?

One of the two BG images (jpg) initially published by ISP:


Here is the specific area of interest:


I lowered the contrast in that area and one can see how the white area seems divided into 2 parts. At least that's how it looks to me:


Perhaps we see his hand/skin and part of a trim of some kind? I thought early on it may be a watch. This image was solely processed with topaz labs and I was quite surprised about the result:

I understand, that things may not always be, what they seem and am open for suggestions.

That trim of some kind, could it be part of a leather coin pocket or part of a leather tool pocket, something like this?


Or perhaps BG is pulling something out of his pocket and the second shiny area may be part of just that?

What are your thoughts? Thank you for the all videos you are making in this case. Excellent work!

-Nin

I know you weren't asking me, but that seldom stops me from responding. All I've ever seen there is the cuff of the jacket sleeve and the back of his hand. The rest of his hand looks (to me) like it's in the pocket of a hoodie or something similar worn under the jacket. MOO

It's entirely possible he's a simple rapist. Any previous experiences may have been hiking trail sexual assaults. Serial killers typically want more personal time with the victim. Usually, it's kidnap and dump, rather than assault and leave.

There is also the possibility of a partner, so potentially it's a couple of drifters that stopped for some sexual activity, the only way drifters can usually get sexual activity. By force.

BBM
I've never seen anywhere that serial killers typically want more time with the victims, do you have the link to a source for that? I've read a lot of studies about serial killers, and the amount of time spent with the victim/s was never included in any of them. It sounds like an interesting addition to other statistics I've found, and there may also be others I've missed included from your source. TIA

 

[gregjrichards]

There are some strong contradictions in the little we do know, which I continue to process in my mind.
I strongly suspect he was in communication with Abby, (catfish), and scheduled a rendezvous. Libby came along for protection, which proved well needed, but as we know, not enough.

So on one hand, I speculate he was well prepared. Had his route in and out charted, and his timing with what seemed like military precision. He came prepared with his nefarious toolkit, and was able to pull off his crime without being detained. So, skillful in that aspect of this crime. *As if he had practice* *As if he'd done this before*

However, as we know, he made some critical mistakes. Not only did he get captured on audio and video by our little heroine Libby, but he left behind bootprints. From those bootprints we can tell a lot about this Perp. His probable height and weight, and the boot print may even be tracked back to not only a manufacturer, but the distribution center.

So while this Perp was skillful in his field movements, he failed in his awareness of detection.
Despite the grave sadness of this case, I have to admit I love the fact a little kid outwitted this Perp and captured him on video/audio. Ultimately, it's going to put the nail in his incarceration coffin. Way to go Libby!

I think this Perp is of lower intelligence. Yes, he has seemingly escaped justice *thus far*, but I think it was due to (speculation only), military field training. How to survive in the field....making it out of the bush. Desert storm?
But the fact he left behind bootprints and got captured on video tells me he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

All amateur speculation and opinion, as usual.
This case is making my brain hurt.

Editing to add I just noticed the number on this post. I rebuke that, BTW. I am a Believer and choose Jesus Christ who is my Savior. Justice for Abby and Libby!

Respectfully how would he communicate with Abbey to catfish her if she had no cell/mobile phone? Liberty's family have confirmed that the trip to the trail on the tragic day was a very last minute arrangement to go take some cool photos.

 

[stg]

I know you weren't asking me, but that seldom stops me from responding. All I've ever seen there is the cuff of the jacket sleeve and the back of his hand. The rest of his hand looks (to me) like it's in the pocket of a hoodie or something similar worn under the jacket. MOO


BBM
I've never seen anywhere that serial killers typically want more time with the victims, do you have the link to a source for that? I've read a lot of studies about serial killers, and the amount of time spent with the victim/s was never included in any of them. It sounds like an interesting addition to other statistics I've found, and there may also be others I've missed included from your source. TIA

Read up on Ted Bundy. He often returned to the bodies of his victims to spend more time with them and committed unspeakable acts with them, and even put makeup on them. The Wikipedia page on him goes into detail on that. Not sure if you meant while the victims were alive or after death, so I apologize if I misunderstood your post.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Respectfully how would he communicate with Abbey to catfish her if she had no cell/mobile phone? Liberty's family have confirmed that the trip to the trail on the tragic day was a very last minute arrangement to go take some cool photos.

Didn't she have an Ipad IIRC?

 

[Shiressleuth]

I don't think the twist has anything to do with the video.

The "Twist" Transcribed from an interview by one of our members.

8:46mm https://youtu.be/K_ISwatrrpY


"Very complicated"

26:28mm https://youtu.be/P1uSKrtYdDw

Ah the Twist - I couldn't remember where or who said it but here it is. Now what does he mean? Is it the audio and video recorded by the victim or what? Strange that he refers to the old murders.

Thanks for finding and posting this.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Ah the Twist - I couldn't remember where or who said it but here it is. Now what does he mean? Is it the audio and video recorded by the victim or what? Strange that he refers to the old murders.

Thanks for finding and posting this.

You just brought up a horrifying thought...

What if the perp had Libby video it? Could that be the twist?

If that is the case, then I whole hardheartedly believe he is a SK.

 

[mrtnira]

Within the range of possibilities, some of which Rosesfromangels was mentioning, the killer might very well have been in communication with one of the girls. It is within the range of options or potentials.

Roses' reference to Abby doing the savvy internet communications work instead of the killer fits with the idea that was floated in earlier threads (somewhere in the past 65 threads) that the girls might have been drawn to the site believing they would be solving a mystery (the teen age interest to be detectives).

With that, younger and probably more tech savvy Abby might have been practicing electronic operational security, and not the killer (whom we are assuming here not to be tech savvy). If she was doing standard obfuscation, it would have potentially obscured the killer's information (potentially).

The fact her parents thought she was going on the spur of the moment day out to take photos is something that happens to a lot of parents -- the kids lie. Most likely, if they were in contact with the killer, they wouldn't want to tell their parents they were meeting an on-line contact who promised to help them solve a mystery.

This is a series of "if - then" assumptions that are drawn from earlier postings in the threads and are alluded to in Rosesfromangels write-up. I hope this provides some clarity.