IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #66

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I realize that Superman is probably the only person who's unrecognizable to everybody with his disguise, but is it possible that BG normally wears glasses and maybe got some contacts nobody has seen him wear other than that day? I guess it's also possible that he just removed them (glasses), but it seems pretty hard to imagine crossing that bridge if you can't see clearly. I was just thinking about it because I recently saw someone I've known for several years; I'd always seen her with her contacts until this last time, and I didn't recognize her when I saw her wearing her glasses (and with a different hairstyle).

If he normally has rather wild, maybe curly, hair, more form-fitting clothes and glasses, he may look totally different with no glasses, a hat and the bulkier clothes. Maybe other people are better at noticing things like that than I am, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
MOO
You know the white bit at the top of the nose, the seemingly sunburnt/weather beaten nose and the extra layers? Could he ride a motor bike and the white bit is due to motor bike goggles? Also could explain the nose. I know it has been suggested before we had the sketch and I know it was suggested recently too but the nose and that white bit has me more convinced. A bike under the SE end of the bridge could be almost unnoticeable. JMO.
 
I also wonder if maybe this "witness" was not from the day of the crime, but perhaps BG had some type of encounter with this "witness" recently as opposed to at the time of this crime (possibly at the same area) described him, and LE feels it is the same person or the person who encountered him was already aware of the picture of BG and felt certain it was the same person, OR maybe they did see him on the bridge the day of the crime and recently crossed his path again, which made them realize it was the same guy and therefore they were able to give a better description.


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This reminds me that someone did go up to a LE officer with info and was directed into a Grant Couty police station with a tip quite late in the investigation IIRC it was on GrCo FB page. That also jives with the LE statements about a witness coming forward in the previous few months and working with the sketch artist. Don't have specific links so MOO. If anyone does could they post links? It was about the time the sketch was released that LE reported it.
 
Members cannot post side by sides of BG nor are we allowed to alter the BG composite.

This is the composite a Virginia Tech company made of the suspect in April's murder.
Are we allowed to mess about with this Parabon image on the thread? Please could mods advise?
 
I wondered these things too.

The killer had to have emerged from that forest area at some time, and somewhere. And even if he was able to clean up a bit in the creek, he's still going to be a mess. And wet!

I don't want to second guess the initial search, but it's really possible that because the girls weren't considered in danger that Monday, and I guess they were thought to be voluntary missing---it would not have occurred to anyone to check the parking lots then.

And like you said, who remembers a car that is parked in a lot near them? You might if it stood out for some reason, but most people would be more focused on their objective, rather than the cars around them.

That may have been a significant missed opportunity (and again, not criticizing--this stuff happens)
I do seem to remember LE asking for anyone with a vehicle at the trailhead parking to come forward to be identified/ruled out so perhaps all the vehicles are accounted for there. If not I would have expected LE to have issued vehicle details fairly early on. As they haven't, and that is standard practice, then I think that would not have been missed.
I don't remember if they appealed for dash cam footage though. Do dash cams work 24/7 even when parked?
 
When you look at the images created of DNA, Parabon Snapshots, you will notice: too often the mouth/lips are very similar, mostly the same with few exceptions. When I saw the sketch of our suspect I noticed a quite different mouth/lips than usual. I don't have to look at the image just now, I'm seeing his mouth in my mind's eye because it is so special somehow.

View attachment 122377

Well, I know of abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com ..... ;)


PS: Yesterday the thread was surrounded by advertising for "Beret caps" - I think what BG/suspect was wearing.
You're probably gonna get more now you've said beret caps again. Oops I said it again too. :laughing:
When we were talking about "goggles" and posting pics in the image thread that's all my adverts were.
 
It could also be from rosacea. Grasping at straws, and wondering if the sketch has been distributed to dermatologists in the surrounding area? You never know, he could be under care for the condition.

If they could clear up that picture that Libby captured, they might be able to narrow it down, and get this monster.

All MHO as always.
Posters did a lot of work in the image thread with the stills. I haven't checked to see if any comparisons have been done over there or even if it is open. I'll have a look and be right back to edit.

It's closed but the thread can still be reviewed.

Question for mods - please could we perhaps have the image thread open for still and sketch comparisons including using the Parabon sketch to compare with side by side to BG sketch and adapt/discuss etc?
 
She asks, what is on the surface, a pretty inoccuous question. Was it difficult terrain? Really? She pointedly includes from the bridge to where they were found... it's a fishing expedition and he bites.

She doesn't ask for details. She doesn't poke or prod. Unassisted, and unaided, he traces the route they took and explains the difficulties with the obstacles they came across. To accent his own point, he adds that it's not normally a place people would go.

It's pretty honest. It's pretty forthright. It's from someone intimately involved in the case who likely knows exactly what path they took. He also has a vested interest in letting any information out, and is careful in what he divulges.

Maybe if he had a do-over, he'd say something different, but there's no reason not to take it at face value. He doesn't go into what he thinks happened and where. He is careful to guard that. They may have, in fact, not crossed the creek alive, and his hesitation with details may be an indication of that.
I am not taking what Holeman said as fact that the girls went through the creek either with BG or by running/swimming across as I don't interpret it as definite either one way or the other. I think he was discussing a possibility as we all have, but that's my opinion. Is it possible LE don't know? I don't know, it's complicated I guess. Could one have run/walked across and one dragged across by BG? We don't know. Did they physically go through the water? I am reserving my judgement but keeping the options open.
 
I've written up what I can think of right now. What have I missed?

Known facts

The girls were on the bridge
BG was on the bridge
The girls were dropped off on the north side of the creek/trail
The bodies were found on the north side of the creek
They were found about 50' from the creek south of the cemetery
The girls were dropped off by LG's sister by 1:45 (I'm not sure if the 1:45 time has been confirmed)
DG tried to reach them around 3:00 without any luck
Other people were on the trail and bridge close to that time period
There is a video (and we have stills from it) of the "main" suspect
There is a recording of the suspect's voice
There is a sketch of the suspect which is a composite of information from witnesses
The bodies were found on RL's property
RL is not a suspect
Libby was taking pictures
There was no school that day
The weather that day was seasonally mild
Within walking distance of the crime scene, there is a meat packing plant, a quarry, a recycling station, several homes (some empty, some not), a few roads (from gravel to highways)
Both girls died
The photos and video stills show they were on the south end of the bridge at one point
They crossed the creek twice one way or another
There were some footprints that led to the bodies.
Libby's phone was recovered
The crime scene was taped off
Nothing other than the entrance to the bridge was taped off on the south side of the creek (possibly a small area surrounding the entrance to the bridge)
Just bumping these facts. Wonder if this post could be brought forward to each new thread as it is so useful a reminder?
 
I've written up what I can think of right now. What have I missed?

Known facts

The girls were on the bridge
BG was on the bridge
The girls were dropped off on the north side of the creek/trail
The bodies were found on the north side of the creek
They were found about 50' from the creek south of the cemetery
The girls were dropped off by LG's sister by 1:45 (I'm not sure if the 1:45 time has been confirmed)
DG tried to reach them around 3:00 without any luck
Other people were on the trail and bridge close to that time period
There is a video (and we have stills from it) of the "main" suspect
There is a recording of the suspect's voice
There is a sketch of the suspect which is a composite of information from witnesses
The bodies were found on RL's property
RL is not a suspect
Libby was taking pictures
There was no school that day
The weather that day was seasonally mild
Within walking distance of the crime scene, there is a meat packing plant, a quarry, a recycling station, several homes (some empty, some not), a few roads (from gravel to highways)
Both girls died
The photos and video stills show they were on the south end of the bridge at one point
They crossed the creek twice one way or another
There were some footprints that led to the bodies.
Libby's phone was recovered
The crime scene was taped off
Nothing other than the entrance to the bridge was taped off on the south side of the creek (possibly a small area surrounding the entrance to the bridge)

Can you add RLs property, house, outbuildings, white truck were searched, and property across from RLs house where grain bin is located also searched?
 
Something I've wondered about but haven't seen much discussion about is RLs friend/neighbor who spoke on camera w RL. iirc RL is discussing the place the girls were found and how it's hard to get to etc and the friend iirc says something about "that's why we wanted to show you" Anybody remember this? Why have we never heard more about that guy?
 
I wondered these things too.

The killer had to have emerged from that forest area at some time, and somewhere. And even if he was able to clean up a bit in the creek, he's still going to be a mess. And wet!

I don't want to second guess the initial search, but it's really possible that because the girls weren't considered in danger that Monday, and I guess they were thought to be voluntary missing---it would not have occurred to anyone to check the parking lots then.

And like you said, who remembers a car that is parked in a lot near them? You might if it stood out for some reason, but most people would be more focused on their objective, rather than the cars around them.

That may have been a significant missed opportunity (and again, not criticizing--this stuff happens)
There was a white car or truck reported at the entrance and talked about in the early threads.
 
Members cannot post side by sides of BG nor are we allowed to alter the BG composite.

This is the composite a Virginia Tech company made of the suspect in April's murder. <modsnip>

Thanks for that, as I didn't know we can't post side-by-side pictures for comparison. Or alter the artists impression of BG!

HOWEVER......, are we allow to add a cap & facial hair to the Paragon image/composite of suspect in April's murder.

As far as I understand, a Paragon snapshot can give only an average impression & can only predict certain general characteristics e.g. race, skin tone, hair & eye colour.

It is not good at forecasting the shape of the subject's face.

Imagine the Parabon image but with a more drooping face & drooping eyes, looking less healthy, more depressed/weary.....

The age range fits.


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I work in the area where April's killer left the notes on bikes and very near the barn door he wrote on. It is bigtime Amish country in this area. Amish usually have a person that they pay to drive them around. I've been wondering if April's killer may have been and driver for the Amish. Anyone know if there's an Amish community near Delphi?
 
Thanks for that, as I didn't know we can't post side-by-side pictures for comparison. Or alter the artists impression of BG!

HOWEVER......, are we allow to add a cap & facial hair to the Paragon image/composite of suspect in April's murder.

As far as I understand, a Paragon snapshot can give only an average impression & can only predict certain general characteristics e.g. race, skin tone, hair & eye colour.

It is not good at forecasting the shape of the subject's face.

Imagine the Parabon image but with a more drooping face & drooping eyes, looking less healthy, more depressed/weary.....

The age range fits.


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When I did my big write up about the similarities between the Tinsley and Delphi murders in the previous thread, I don't know if I mentioned how much I personally thought the Parabon resembled BG. Things like the shape of the nose can definitely be altered by life events not tied to genetics...alcoholism, a broken nose. Nevertheless, I even thought the nose was similar.
 
When I did my big write up about the similarities between the Tinsley and Delphi murders in the previous thread, I don't know if I mentioned how much I personally thought the Parabon resembled BG. Things like the shape of the nose can definitely be altered by life events not tied to genetics...alcoholism, a broken nose. Nevertheless, I even thought the nose was similar.

Totally agree!

I'm afraid I haven't read your write up yet, but have independently come to the same conclusion.

Particularly when you take into account the limitations of a Parabon image.


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I work in the area where April's killer left the notes on bikes and very near the barn door he wrote on. It is bigtime Amish country in this area. Amish usually have a person that they pay to drive them around. I've been wondering if April's killer may have been and driver for the Amish. Anyone know if there's an Amish community near Delphi?

Back in February there was discussion here about a news article that stated LE made a particular effort to hand out fliers in the Amish and German baptist communities around Delphi! I don't know how to bring a quote from a thread forward from that far back? But you might be onto the same track that LE is or was at that time!
 
I see some facial asymmetry. Small details intentionally incorporated into the sketch, which makes me think perhaps it's readily noticeable in person.
I'm speaking of features on our left in the sketch but they would be the right side of his face, so I'll refer to it that way.
His right ear cartilage curves in above the lobe whereas the left ear does not, it appears almost straight.
His right eye appears to have a droop in the lower lid, just below the pupil.
His right nostril appears to be straighter, a bit flattened? His left nostril has a pronounced indentation at the top.
The right side of his nose appears to blend into the cheek area while the left side of his nose has more of a pronounced edge line.
If you look at the whole nose, the left side (what we see as the right) appears more chiseled or defined.
His right nasolabial fold stays close to the nostril and corner of the mouth. His left nasolabial fold arches outward into the cheek area.
Take a piece of paper and cover one half of his face for a few seconds, then do the same with the other half.
When I do this I see a face that appears a bit more aged on his right side (on our left in the sketch). Could be an issue from birth? A mini-stroke? A mild TBI? (former military?). I've only just been reading a bit on facial nerves and I'm wondering if perhaps he has some kind of illness or injury that has mildly affected the 7th cranial (facial) nerve on his right side?

All my humble opinion.

It has been mentioned many times how the perp sketch looks very generic. What characteristics of the sketch stand out to you guys? If you happened to know this person what would the characteristics be that would make you go WTH I need to tip LE? We've been told to focus on facial features so not the hat please:)
45b159d67e1ba2f82992038b67544c3e.jpg
 
Totally agree!

I'm afraid I haven't read your write up yet, but have independently come to the same conclusion.

Particularly when you take into account the limitations of a Parabon image.


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It's post 712 in thread #65. I would love to hear your thoughts on the similarities to the Delphi case.
 
Back in February there was discussion here about a news article that stated LE made a particular effort to hand out fliers in the Amish and German baptist communities around Delphi! I don't know how to bring a quote from a thread forward from that far back? But you might be onto the same track that LE is or was at that time!
They obviously have DNA in the AT case so I wonder if LE have been able to compare?
 
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