IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #66

[No it's not]

https://duboiscountyherald.com/b/state-grant-lifts-delphi-trail-safety-funds-to-176000

 

[terpstra1]

If LE was certain, or even strongly believed that there was one and only one perpetrator they would have said so. I don't think they have strong enough confidence or the evidence to say it with certainty. It seems as if there is some aspect of this crime within the evidence LE does have in their possession that leaves the door open to more than one perpetrator. That is, it is more likely than not that this is the work of a lone actor but LE can't be sure of that. However, LE hasn't even said that it is more likely than not a lone perpetrator. LE has, in fact, taken no opportunity to settle this.

After listening to the last LE interview I see hints of this being just one perp. LE refers to to him as the killer not killers. Often says he not they. Thoughts?

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[Shiressleuth]

Unfortunately, murderers like this are high risk takers. I think the higher the risk the more they are thrilled by their murderous acts. We really will never be able to ascertain why they take such high risks but I do think it is part of the game/thrill. All we know...is they do ...time, and time again. Due to the change in the MO of so many violent criminals in recent years it has led many people to lock their doors during the middle of the day along with locking them at night. Even if they live in very safe neighborhoods.

This was a remote wooded area and he isn't the only one who has selected these kind of areas before.

Yet we have seen so many cases for years on WS where predators have abducted their victims right in broad daylight on very busy streets. So it does not surprise me in the least BG selected this area to commit homicides against two young girls.

In most all of the abductions resulting in rape/ murder that were committed during broad daylight no one saw or heard a thing either.

Many abductions/murders have also happened in remote areas or county parks with wooded areas in them or walking trails or jogging paths right during the daytime.

Just like home invasions are on the rise now and it use to be they would come into someone's home during the night or when no one was home...steal and then leave. But now they are invading homes with victims inside right in the middle of the daytime and many are ending in gruesome over-killings of those who were caught inside when the home invader/s turned rapists/murderers barged in.

The violent criminals in our society seem to have become bolder and bolder now. Daylight does not deter them anymore.

IMO

You are right. The perps have become bolder. Why is that? With so much more cctv and mobile phones everywhere criminals should be more in fear of being caught these days. Is it because of less police patrols/manpower perhaps? IDK.

 

[Shiressleuth]

After listening to the last LE interview I see hints of this being just one perp. LE refers to to him as the killer not killers. Often says he not they. Thoughts?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I agree. Even early on they said BG was the only person who had not come forward so he became the suspect. The reason for the two perp theory is because they cannot be sure the DTH voice belongs to BG IIRC.

 

[jillybean51]

It's a theory based on meth users being unpredictable, dangerous and not to be approached (see your link) Its based on him having stuff in his jacket similar to tubing as well as a bumbag, a rucksack, gun possibly, heading seemingly to a secluded and empty property/outbuilding. Its a theory that is JMO.

Additionally, the trail entrance on the Mears property was closed partly due to comings and goings at all times of the day and night IIRC.

Does anybody else remember that RL had once confronted somebody cooking meth at the cemetary?


Always my opinion only [emoji230]

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If LE was certain, or even strongly believed that there was one and only one perpetrator they would have said so. I don't think they have strong enough confidence or the evidence to say it with certainty. It seems as if there is some aspect of this crime within the evidence LE does have in their possession that leaves the door open to more than one perpetrator. That is, it is more likely than not that this is the work of a lone actor but LE can't be sure of that. However, LE hasn't even said that it is more likely than not a lone perpetrator. LE has, in fact, taken no opportunity to settle this.

LE is not going to say anything even if they know they are looking for only one suspect. Have they said they believe he was in the company of an accomplice? Was that displayed on the numerous billboards along with the photos of BG and the girls? Has the public been told recently to be on the lookout for two men or more who was in the area when the girls were killed?

Or is it just SOP for LE to never eliminate any possibilities before an arrest is made like 99% of other police department across the nation never do? In the Washington DC home invasion mass murder of four that police jurisdiction at the time surmised he had help. That was at the beginning at the time it was just an assumption on their part, and they know now he did not have an accomplice, and was the sole perpetrator. They never came out and corrected it for the sole arrest of the perp and no one else spoke for itself.

Have they come out lately speaking to the press stressing they believe he has an accomplice? All I have seen of late is they are trying very hard to identify the man (BG) they say is the suspect in the murders. Has LE come forward asking the public to help identify another man who was in the area? Surely if witnesses or a witness saw BG they would also know he was accompanied by another male. I really think if they thought more than one was involved they would have clearly stated that and also had a shadow profile of another man on the billboard along with BG, letting the public know to be on the lookout for two males instead of only one.

I actually think the opposite. I think they have much more on the video including voices showing them that BG is the only one they should be looking for. That is why all of their efforts have concentrated on this one man.

Before an arrest of any suspect is made the police have said in several other cases they "believe" the suspect may have had help. It is only an assumption at that time..not an affirmation backed up with proof, and most all of the time in the end it turns out to be one sole suspect.

I don't think they have any evidence of another suspect involved in these murders. It is very obvious to me they are honed in on locating one suspect only, and that is BG.

IMO, this was done by one sole murder and LE knows it is BG.

JMO

 

[monkeypants]

I agree. I think the video is enough evidence to know it is just BG acting alone.
I honestly don't think meth plays a role in the least in this case, but JMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Sure. But the question remains: How could BG know that would be the case with any kind of certainty? Fight, Flight, or Freeze is a sub-second decision process. Their isn't much deliberate thinking allowed by the brain when such situations arise.

All of these would have been what could have occurred: both girls freeze, both girls run, both girls fight, one girl freezes one girl runs, one girl freezes one girl fights, one girl runs one girl fights. Only 2 of those 6 work in BGs favor - both freeze, one fights one freezes - and only 1 optimally - both freeze. So, in the best case he had a 33% chance of success at the start of the crime and 16% as his second best chance of success. And it isn't really 33% because it much depends on if the one choosing to fight presents the opportunity for the one that freezes to choose to fight or flee as time goes on.

We know what did occur and we know that LE and the family said they would not leave each other. But BG would only be guessing that would be the case.

Sadly I think we also have to look at it by assuming he had a gun. If both ran across the creek to get away they could have both been shot and left. Same if one had ran. As you say, the only chance is if one is fighting the single perp and the other runs for help. They may still be killed but I see it as the only chance for one to get away and raise the alert. Everything else is a bad result either for one or both of the victims. Obviously we don't exactly know what happened except that it must have happened quickly and seemingly by the time DG arrived and contacted L by phone with no answer. MOO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You are right. The perps have become bolder. Why is that? With so much more cctv and mobile phones everywhere criminals should be more in fear of being caught these days. Is it because of less police patrols/manpower perhaps? IDK.

I truly wish I did know. So many now aren't breaking into ATMs at night or breaking into stores late at night after hours but they are doing it right in the middle of the day and so many times the results can be deadly for innocent victims.

You probably are right about less police on patrol due to so many people not wanting to sign up to be police officers now. So many jurisdictions have a shortage of police officers.

All I know it is so scary at how bold so many of them have become and how ruthless they can be to victims they have never set eyes on.

An 83 year old woman had her home invaded in the state I live in last year. She was defenseless and helpless and no match for the five who barged into her home..yet they broke and crushed bones, but then that wasn't enough so they set her on fire, and she died from those injuries.

The overkills that are happening to complete strangers is something I will never understand. It is like some in society have become sub-humans without one ounce of empathy and are filled with rage and hate for some reason. It is all so frightening to me.

JMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

Does anybody else remember that RL had once confronted somebody cooking meth at the cemetary?


Always my opinion only [emoji230]

No I certainly don't remember that. Can you recall the source?

 

[Shiressleuth]

I truly wish I did know. So many now aren't breaking into ATMs at night or breaking into stores late at night after hours but they are doing it right in the middle of the day and so many times the results can be deadly for innocent victims.

You probably are right about less police on patrol due to so many people not wanting to sign up to be police officers now. So many jurisdictions have a shortage of police officers.

All I know it is so scary at how bold so many of them have become and how ruthless they can be to victims they have never set eyes on.

An 83 year old woman had her home invaded in the state I live in last year. She was defenseless and helpless and no match for the five who barged into her home..yet they broke and crushed bones, but then that wasn't enough so they set her on fire, and she died from those injuries.

The overkills that are happening to complete strangers is something I will never understand. It is like some in society have become sub-humans without one ounce of empathy and are filled with rage and hate for some reason. It is all so frightening to me.

JMO

I hope they caught those feckers. I believe sentences should be automatically doubled for young, old, disabled, victims such as minors, elderly, blind, physically or mentally impaired etc. It is worse when someone is unarmed and unable to run or defend themseves. No parole or probation either. Definately need to recruit more police and combat the drug epidemic which fuels a lot of these violent robberies imo.

 

[jillybean51]

No I certainly don't remember that. Can you recall the source?

I'll try to find it. [emoji4]


Always my opinion only [emoji230]

 

[minazoe]

Do you think a vehicle was involved? What do you mean by an "unmarked" car and "never hitch"? Do you think the girls hitched a lift on the road at the south end of the bridge? This has never been mentioned (except by RL maybe) AFAIK.

no I was talking about the two young victims of the trooper/ officer who was a sk, they were hitching and he picked them up and murdered them in another case. I do not believe Libby and Abby hitched a ride anywhere because of the way the crime went down and what is obvious to police on the recordings.

 

[margarita25]

For the sake of maintaining decorum in a serious thread, could we all please stick to using the WS recognized acronyms (i.e. MOO, JMO, IMO).

:tyou:

(My bad, sillybilly, very sorry about that! Necessary "decorum in a serious thread" is absolutely right.)

 

[Justice101]

no I was talking about the two young victims of the trooper/ officer who was a sk, they were hitching and he picked them up and murdered them in another case. I do not believe Libby and Abby hitched a ride anywhere because of the way the crime went down and what is obvious to police on the recordings.

I agree. And I am following.

 

[ImnoSherlock]

I went to the FBI FB page but couldn't find any more indicator posts.I don't have the Twitters to check that.

 

[margarita25]

From the profile for the killer of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey in Iowa in 2012:

The following items are possible characteristics the suspect may have, however should not be considered factual and the suspect or suspects may or may not possess one or all of the characteristics described here.


​

• The offender most likely acted upon an opportunity to abduct Lyric and Elizabeth when they were seen in the Evansdale area.
  
  ​

• The offender is familiar with both Meyers Lake/Angels Park in Evansdale and Seven Bridges Wildlife Area in Bremer County. The offender specifically chose Seven Bridges Wildlife Area because of the offender’s familiarity with the area and the fact that it afforded the offender privacy needed to commit the crimes with limited risk of detection by others.
  
  ​

• The offender likely used some form of “quiet coercion” to garner Elizabeth and Lyric’s initial compliance in leaving the park. This could have involved communication of a ruse or threats of violence.
  
  ​

• The offender blends in with and may be a part of the Evansdale, Bremer and surrounding communities. It is unlikely that the offender is a transient or someone who was merely traveling or “passing through” the area.
  
  ​

• The offender may have experienced stressors in the offender’s life in the time period leading up to July 13[SUP]th[/SUP], 2012. These stressors may have included legal problems, psychological/mental health difficulties, conflict(s) with their significant other or spouse, employment difficulties or financial strain.
  
  ​

• The offender is likely following any media reports regarding the investigation but may deliberately avoid discussions with others about the case or any public display of interest about the investigation.
  
  ​

• The offender may have attempted abductions in the past and these attempts may have involved minor or adult victims.
  
  ​

• In the time period following July 13, 2012, the offender may have made attempts to alter the appearance of the offender’s vehicle. This may have involved cleaning the interior or exterior of the vehicle or permanently changing the appearance through painting or re-upholstery.
  
  ​

• In the time period following July 13, 2012, the offender may have made attempts to alter the offender’s physical appearance to include, changing hair style/color, growing/removing facial hair, etc.​

BAU case experience indicates that the vast majority of these types of offenses are committed by one offender. However, there are cases in which more than one offender was involved in some part of the criminal act. Therefore, the public is strongly encouraged to contact law enforcement with any suspicion involving a single offender, multiple offenders or any individual they are suspicious of -- whether or not the person possesses any of the characteristics mentioned above.
This information is being released to the public in hopes it will assist the public to remember specific activities/characteristics of individuals around the date of the girls abduction and report it to investigators.
The public is warned to take no action on their own based upon these characteristics but are asked to report their suspicions to law enforcement so they may be properly investigated and individual’s rights protected.
​

http://evansdalepolice.org/suspectinfo.html​

​

Interesting, the part "The offender is likely following any media reports regarding the investigation but may deliberately avoid discussions with others about the case or any public display of interest about the investigation."

In profiles I've seen re: other cases, the opposite is usually inferred, iirc, as far as having an unusual interest in the case, and discussing it, iirc...will have to go back and do some research on this.

 

[margarita25]

Daae:
You really came up with some idea regarding the alibi -

Is it stated anywhere definitively that RL has a fish tank and fish? Tia. (Not sayin he's BG)

 

[margarita25]

Does anybody else remember that RL had once confronted somebody cooking meth at the cemetary?


Always my opinion only [emoji230]

Yes!!!

 

[Suglo]

Does anybody else remember that RL had once confronted somebody cooking meth at the cemetary?


Always my opinion only [emoji230]

No. I remember there was a police report that he called about a trespasser in his barn. Nothing about meth or the cemetery.