IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #67

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Camerabug said:
I'm happy to go look this up in the archives rather than put the entire group through things all over again. I've attempted to move on more than once now. I am saying the family may well have chosen the date of death they were told. I presume they have seen and possess death certificates for their respective children. The funeral director often acquires them as a service for his/her clientele. The information entered in the paper is directly from the death certificate as to Date of Death. People can't randomly make dates of their choosing up. Imagine that nightmare if people could! (Think insurance here)

The legal maneuvering may have something to do with not revealing too much. If my child died, LE is NOT going to write the obit for me. It may have been as simple as overlooking what was to be printed in the paper. I'm going to re-read the court orders tomorrow, and I have forwarded the order to an attorney friend of mine for assessment as well, although she is in corporate law and may or may not be able to shed light on the decision. I believe I do see legal recourse in section 7 for the Prosecutor to unseal the records for trial, but with this migraine my vision is not good and I'm not able to review the document to its fullest.

once again, I am happy to dig into the archives and not bog down the thread with old news.
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The funeral director often acquires them as a service for his/her clientele.
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This is the general rule where I live whereby, the funeral home receives verification of death from the ME Office. Then, the family is allowed to write about their remaining loved ones, family members and accomplishments into the obituary.

John and Patsy Ramsey ordered their daughter, JonBenet, headstone to read "Died: December 25, 1996" even though the coroner placed her TOD as December 26, 1996. However, the obituary listed the factual death date of Dec. 26, 1996.

JonBenet Patricia Ramsey of Boulder died Thursday, Dec. 26, 1996, at home, the victim of a homicide. She was 6.
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1996/12/31-2.html
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deugirtni said:
Aren't there some really big football games around Thanksgiving over there? Great thought!
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Thanks deugirtni :) Yes there are! Wasn't it an Indianapolis Colts football player (or owner?) that donated some of the reward money to help find BG?


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margarita25 said:
Thanks. Good stuff.

Speeeecificallllly, why was the creek so high, I forgot? (For example, "Raining for x number of days", snowmelt, etc...)

Sorry, I also see "crossed creek twice"...all this time I was thinking once, guess I'm confused...
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BBM

Sorry for the confusion (no pun intended!). What I meant was that they started on the north side, had pictures showing they were on the south side, and were found back on the north side. In my mind that means that they crossed the creek on the bridge once, and again in some manner or another. Whether they walked/swam across the creek, walked across the bridge, were carried or driven, somehow they crossed it again. Hope that explains it. MOO
 
DeDee said:
This is the general rule where I live whereby, the funeral home receives verification of death from the ME Office. Then, the family is allowed to write about their remaining loved ones, family members and accomplishments into the obituary.

John and Patsy Ramsey ordered their daughter, JonBenet, headstone to read "Died: December 25, 1996" even though the coroner placed her TOD as December 26, 1996. However, the obituary listed the factual death date of Dec. 26, 1996.
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The only reason I worry about T.O.D. is that if I were a defense attorney and my client was charged with this double homicide in what will likely be a death penalty case; and I find out in discovery that one of the victims was in fact not deceased at the time stated (even though it's off by only one day-and was altered by a judge!) I'm going to have a field day. You can bet I will make hay with that and go straight for reasonable doubt. I'm not a lawyer, but that's how I would proceed.
 
Camerabug said:
The only reason I worry about T.O.D. is that if I were a defense attorney and my client was charged with this double homicide in what will likely be a death penalty case; and I find out in discovery that one of the victims was in fact not deceased at the time stated (even though it's off by only one day-and was altered by a judge!) I'm going to have a field day. You can bet I will make hay with that and go straight for reasonable doubt. I'm not a lawyer, but that's how I would proceed.
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Once he is found, I don't think a jury will have reasonable doubt. After all, they have his picture and his voice. Experts are going to testify as to whether or not it is him on the voice recording and the jury is going to make up their mind on the picture. Combine that with DNA, this perp is going to be ordering his last meal.

Now to find the sick XXXXXXX. It's only a matter of time. TIC-TOC.
 
minazoe said:
I posted one too...I think a bunch of us have tried to profile.

Im still really on this guy with the pulled up lower lip and the house full of garbage. I wonder what the FBI is talking to him about. I hope it's him, because then he's off the street.

this is the act of a depraved individual...and everything about this guys face and demeanor in these pictures is screaming BG to me...

wonder if they still have old sparky or a nice soothing gas chamber, because they will need to execute this guy so hopefully its as gruesome as possible,hopefully his trial is an unbearable humiliation for him, and his last meal won't stay down from fear...Bon Appetite'!...weirdo. Get ready for hell.

MOO
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Me too ... while browsing online I saw there is a hearing tmro at 1pm so perhaps we can glean something from it? Or maybe it will just be about whatever they are holding him on while they dig through his stuff ...
 
mrtnira said:
It is a human characteristic to create our own downfall. Regardless of how smart and cunning he appears to be, eventually a criminal will overlook or forget something. If he got away with ten crimes like this, on the 11th one he can make the mistake. It is about percentages. Eventually percentages catch up with people.
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I agree with this, and also that many of these sort of killers end up not caring if they are caught, or they get very complacent because there is no longer the anxiety around unknowns of the act that there once was. The list of examples is endless, caught because they do something so absolutely blatant that they'd have no rationale reason to believe they'd get away with it. Links to earlier crimes are then possible, but they'd never have got them for it except for their later behaviour.
 
This thread is closed. There is a picture post 34 that may be it.

V

IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

Boxer said:
Hello
I kind of lurk and didnt know enough to really say Hello when I signed up. So Hello.
I wonder if anyone remembers the original image of Abby on the Bridge -- where there was speculation that there was a figure in the woods peering out from behind a tree? This was before Libby's pictures were found and released and the image was of something bluish -- I have since wondered if the individual was on the deer blind -- but I can seem to search the threads to see the images again. Is there a trick to finding things?
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Camerabug said:
This is awesome! I hadn't realized her phone had been retrieved. Thank you!
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Sorry if I've just missed this information.....but are we sure Libby's phone has been 'physically' found??

I understood the video & audio had been retrieved from 'the cloud'.


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Bethan said:
Sorry if I've just missed this information.....but are we sure Libby's phone has been 'physically' found??

I understood the video & audio had been retrieved from 'the cloud'.


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That wasn't stated by police.

One of the more recent press conferences police stated the phone was found near the girls.
 
BigCityAccountant said:
Once he is found, I don't think a jury will have reasonable doubt. After all, they have his picture and his voice. Experts are going to testify as to whether or not it is him on the voice recording and the jury is going to make up their mind on the picture. Combine that with DNA, this perp is going to be ordering his last meal.

Now to find the sick XXXXXXX. It's only a matter of time. TIC-TOC.
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"If it does not fit, you must acquit..." It might be enough to keep him off death row..BTW I'm more of a prosecution-type lol!

Today is the day! Lets' all hope it is! #Justice for Abby&Libby
 
The statement that they found Libby's phone near the girls I believe was in the Sgt. Holeman Interview.
 
As others have stated, the info about the found phone was in the interview with ISP Sgt. Holeman. The words he used were "in the general area of the girls." I think this could be construed as anywhere within or near the crime scene, perhaps including the creek IMO. They are clearly holding back info on the precise location of the phone for investigative reasons.
 
her said:
That wasn't stated by police.

One of the more recent press conferences police stated the phone was found near the girls.
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Sgt Holeman actually used the words "in the general area" when reporter asked where the phone was found. That interview is in the media thread so perhaps it may be a good idea to look in there. It is not very long and maybe look at the latest couple of pages first for refresh of the facts. JMO and WADR of course.

The media thread is always on page 1 of every thread.

Eta catching up as I was out all day yesterday and internet and phone has been out (major line outage) for most of today and is still playing up. I just saw several of you have stated the interview but will leave this post because of the info about the media thread. There is a great transcript of the interview in it posted by Spellbound and it is full of other info too.
 
InMyOpinion999 said:
The statement that they found Libby's phone near the girls I believe was in the Sgt. Holeman Interview.
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I didn't doubt it had been located-I just hadn't got the link for my own research. I'm slowly but surely building a theory but as to who may have done it--I have no current solid suspect. I do have too many POI's though! I stare at everybody re: that sketch and I'm in NY right now! lol

https://youtu.be/jw294vlgSm4 at around the 24:50 mark
 
Camerabug said:
Bringing this post forward because it has many good points for research and may be useful to re-visit.

Boots resembling those that BG may be seen wearing: [video=twitter;834521628419710989]https://twitter.com/AlexisMcAdamsTV/status/834521628419710989[/video]
Meat packing plant bomb threat: http://www.pharostribune.com/news/local_news/article_97205aec-f942-11e6-8fd2-138759792fcf.html [new link-old one is now dead]
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Camerabug, is this already in the media thread DYK? If not, you can ask mods to add it. I do remember this but if old link is broken this may need to go in.
 
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