IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #69

[tokyorose]

After refusing to understand why him. It's clear. This is him. I didn't want it to be... which I can explain when results come back. Damnit. Glad they got the guy. Furious over the fact that in the end some element of chance, simplicity, and lives overlapped to end in the end of life.


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Cryptic post...I think I get your drift. Tim Watkins by all accounts a really wonderful man, who most likely recognized who DN was and either confronted DN or couldn't hide his surprise and misfortune of being the person to find him, and he paid with his life. MOO. If true, his friend honored his life and memory when he got that photo of DN in the red car...JMO, but it's the simplest explanation, and it makes me weep.

 

[margarita25]

I think she had an OBGYN appt that day and they weren't on speaking terms based on SM posts, so doubtful. Also no one said "a man and pregnant woman" which would've seemed important. Also...idpeople saw him with a woman and then saw the pic of same man in same outfit wouldn't they be aware of that?
JMO

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Good point. Exactly how pregnant was she?

 

[tokyorose]

Good point. Exactly how pregnant was she?

Very pregnant, gave birth in mid to late April I believe.

 

[margarita25]

Re the red car, I don't think this is his car. His wife had a job and I'd assume this was her car to travel back and forth to work. According to the heavy.com "5 facts" article, they were on the outs at the time of A&L deaths and he was living under a bridge -- so I'd guess the red car lead is not applicable for that timeframe.

Interesting point...maybe she let him take it for some reason
? Do we know she was working for sure during this time if she was very preggo? Maybe she was just like "leave...you can take the car"...or maybe not.

 

[mrtnira]

(O/T, I saw an awesome Forensic Files about a young lady's murder which was staged as a suicide...she was found in a mall parking lot in her car with a needle in her arm to make it look like she OD'd, anyway, her female roommates went out looking for her when she went missing, and called LE to say they had found her car in the mall parking lot...well, when the roommates found her, they pulled up right next to her car and called LE. LE arrived and put crime scene tape around the area. The officer happened to put the tape around both the victim's car and the roommates car in one big circle. Since the roommates car was inside the crime scene tape they had to process both vehicles. And LO and Behold inside the trunk of the roommates' car was the victim's personal items, etc!! The irony is that if they had not pulled their car so close, it might not have been processed!! )

There is something in this world at work that cannot be measured or weighed. When circumstances like this occur I think God wasn't going to let this go unchecked. Too many odd things like this happen in life. I told someone who had worked counter-terrorism that I pray for God to "frustrate terrorists of any kind." He doesn't really consider a spiritual world personally. But, when I said that, he relaxed immediately in his chair and started talking about odd things that should not have happened but which did happen to frustrate evil. There is no magic formula, but I think it was Dr. M.L. King who said, "The universe bends to the good."

 

[sumzero]

""He come over talking depressed. His wife wasn't talking to him and everything," she explained.

But she said Bortner's behavior wasn't unusual.

"No, he was acting just like he always acts," she said."

http://www.wthr.com/article/state-p...o-interview-person-of-interest-in-delphi-case

From this article we learn that DN was homeless around the time of the murders. He was sleeping under the overpass or in someone else’s car. His wife wasn’t talking to him. I doubt he had money or transportation (“he came walking up the sidewalk”). So, how likely is it he could go anywhere distant on his own?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

There is something in this world at work that cannot be measured or weighed. When circumstances like this occur I think God wasn't going to let this go unchecked. Too many odd things like this happen in life. I told someone who had worked counter-terrorism that I pray for God to "frustrate terrorists of any kind." He doesn't really consider a spiritual world personally. But, when I said that, he relaxed immediately in his chair and started talking about odd things that should not have happened but which did happen to frustrate evil. There is no magic formula, but I think it was Dr. M.L. King who said, "The universe bends to the good."

(O/T, I saw an awesome Forensic Files about a young lady's murder which was staged as a suicide...she was found in a mall parking lot in her car with a needle in her arm to make it look like she OD'd, anyway, her female roommates went out looking for her when she went missing, and called LE to say they had found her car in the mall parking lot...well, when the roommates found her, they pulled up right next to her car and called LE. LE arrived and put crime scene tape around the area. The officer happened to put the tape around both the victim's car and the roommates car in one big circle. Since the roommates car was inside the crime scene tape they had to process both vehicles. And LO and Behold inside the trunk of the roommates' car was the victim's personal items, etc!! The irony is that if they had not pulled their car so close, it might not have been processed!! )

Margarita, I always enjoy reading your thoughts.
I love this story- that evil is always exposed in the light, it's only a matter of time. I hope and pray this is the case here.
Btw- She was 28 weeks pregnant on 2/13
Book was from half price books.

 

[margarita25]

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...nations-in-connection-with-libby-abby-murders


snips:


[FONT="]Riley said Indiana State Police sent troopers who are "well versed" in the Delphi investigation to Colorado on Friday to interview Nations and collect evidence. He said the troopers they sent are familiar with the case and know things that the average person could not know. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#1A1A1A][FONT="]After questioning Nations and collecting any evidence that they find, Riley said they will fast-track any type of DNA they see fit to collect. [/FONT]
[FONT="][B]Riley could not give a timeline on when they expect to have answers[/B] but said they are working as quickly and thoroughly as possible, while still protecting the integrity of the case. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#1A1A1A][FONT="](bolded by me)[/FONT]

This is so exciting! I think I'm finally excited. It took a few days for me to process all this, but I think I'm finally excited and hopeful.

 

[tokyorose]

From this article we learn that DN was homeless around the time of the murders. He was sleeping under the overpass or in someone else’s car. His wife wasn’t talking to him. I doubt he had money or transportation (“he came walking up the sidewalk&#8221. So, how likely is it he could go anywhere distant on his own?

If he was sleeping in someone's car it's likely he might have driven it too. JMO.. it's all about the DNA now.

 

[Camerabug]

Here's a question, we know sometimes footage is deleted after a certain amount of time...and that time before it gets deleted always varies, that I've seen, anyway, the businesses footage that LE might have reviewed, I've seen on TV, where it seems the review sometimes occurs right there at the business...would LE have automatically taken all footage and removed it from the business and taken it to their labs for analysis? Probably so...if there was a lot to go through..thinking out loud...point being, do they still have access to the footage after all this time? The answer would be more than likely IF they took it to their labs, had a copy, etc.

It's unlikely unless they specifically saved it. Many systems these days are digital and are limited by hard drive size (or whatever storage medium they are using). 24-hr is not an unusual amount of video to be retained before it gets written over. A lot depends on the quality of the video being written to disk too. Higher quality requires more storage space which is a more expensive system etc. that's the gist of it. Maybe someone else knows more in depth.
Whenever LE wanted video of mine, I would burn whatever they requested onto CDs and give them physical copies for them to have for their cases.

 

[Meadowllark]

Cryptic post...I think I get your drift. Tim Watkins by all accounts a really wonderful man, who most likely recognized who DN was and either confronted DN or couldn't hide his surprise and misfortune of being the person to find him, and he paid with his life. MOO. If true, his friend honored his life and memory when he got that photo of DN in the red car...JMO, but it's the simplest explanation, and it makes me weep.

he was living out of his car at the time though, right?

a lot of my cycling friends have a compact bag they carry their stuff in. maybe he thought Tim Watkins had valuables that he could pawn or money he could take and that’s could’ve been a motive for the killing?

Just my speculations.

Is it 100% sure he was the killer of Tim Watkins?

 

[TTF14]

Here's a question, we know sometimes footage is deleted after a certain amount of time...and that time before it gets deleted always varies, that I've seen, anyway, the businesses footage that LE might have reviewed, I've seen on TV, where it seems the review sometimes occurs right there at the business...would LE have automatically taken all footage and removed it from the business and taken it to their labs for analysis? Probably so...if there was a lot to go through..thinking out loud...point being, do they still have access to the footage after all this time? The answer would be more than likely IF they took it to their labs, had a copy, etc.

I can't imagine them NOT saving it somehow. I certainly hope they did!

 

[tara83]

If he was sleeping in someone's car it's likely he might have driven it too. JMO.. it's all about the DNA now.

Exactly.It must have been a friend if they were letting him sleep in the car so I could imagine them letting him drive it.

 

[tokyorose]

he was living out of his car at the time though, right?

a lot of my cycling friends have a compact bag they carry their stuff in. maybe he thought Tim Watkins had valuables that he could pawn or money he could take and that’s could’ve been a motive for the killing?

Just my speculations.

Is it 100% sure he was the killer of Tim Watkins?

No, it isn't. Just my speculation, given the circumstantial information we have so far. Just because DN was living out of his car, I don't think means that he always stayed in his car. Remember his former employer said he loved the woods and I imagine he wanted some alone time from his wife and kids, truthfully most men would. IMOO, they crossed paths... by chance Tim recognized him from the billboards ( who know maybe he was even wearing the same clothes) and DN killed him for it. News articles I read said all Tim had with him was a camelback and his bicycle, and DN didn't take the bicycle.

 

[margarita25]

There were also some random shooting incidents near Monument in 2015 iirc, near Garden of the Gods etc...ftr. Again, not saying there is any relation to NOCO, etc, but I haaaave to wonder if this was their first time in Monument.and Colorado. Why Monument/Mt. Herman? How did they know about this place? What is the connection? Just a random hideout spot?

 

[margarita25]

This makes me convinced they DO have the suspect's DNA and they only have to compare his DNA profile to the DNA they already have. That is why it wont take that long. All they need his DNA for comparison. WOW!

IMO

Yes, you are right I think! WOW!

 

[margarita25]

Unless they were using a plate that belonged to another vehicle.

Good thought, earlier I had asked why would they keep Indiana plates on? Well, this doesn't mean that the plate they did had on was legit.

 

[HockeyMom330]

From this article we learn that DN was homeless around the time of the murders. He was sleeping under the overpass or in someone else’s car. His wife wasn’t talking to him. I doubt he had money or transportation (“he came walking up the sidewalk”). So, how likely is it he could go anywhere distant on his own?

I think he hitchhiked, and that is the reason that LE right away asked for people to come forward if they saw hitchikers in the area on Feb 13th and also the reason that billboards went up so quickly in so many states. I don't think he had access to a vehicle at the time A & L were murdered. If he did I think he would have moved their bodies to a different location. The fact that the girls were abducted and murdered and left all in the same area suggests to me that he didn't have a means to transport them elsewhere.

 

[margarita25]

They may have gotten a partial return / identification through the father. After that, it would narrow the flip book of mug shots to show witnesses. Or, they go directly to the mug shot and use that as the foundation for the artists rendition. It would allow public release of an accurate wanted poster, without tipping the hand by naming the man they are searching for. Within law enforcement they could know the man is wanted for questioning.

Interesting this is being mentioned because one reason I was skeptical is because the sketch looks older, imo. I thought maybe this was due to the perception of maybe being weathered due to homelessness, etc if that makes sense, meaning he sketch makes him look older because maybe he really did look older at the time, being dirty, tired, etc.

I do wonder how close this sketch might be to his dad's mug, or brother's mug, if there are any, saw that here somewhere..(not sayin they are nvolved, just referencing the familiac dna aspect, running the sketch through prisoners' mugs, possibility of hitting on a family member who looks similar, etc)

 

[Camerabug]

After refusing to understand why him. It's clear. This is him. I didn't want it to be... which I can explain when results come back. Damnit. Glad they got the guy. But when we look at all the elements and all the chance and just how time unfolded to make this encounter possible... and then the level of just... ultimately what might be the antithesis of sophistication, psychological complexities involved with some intellectual capacities disturbed by childhood trauma (a compelling narrative) it's simply feels empty. An act of pure impulse- almost more evil by lack of plan in that there exists the potential for no plan but simply the sheer coincidence of time and place and depravity in conjunction with innocence Sorry if that makes no sense. Not really linear... but for what?
Just such a damn shame. Writing two girls out of their own histories...

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I understand what you are saying and like I said last night, my thoughts have turned somber over what we've lost. It's a heavy loss all round. I am glad they've finally got him too. It didn't have to be like this. Such a shame. I get it.