IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #71

[Ember123]

I think Ember is possibly referring to the murder of Tim Watkins.

No, actually I wasn't even thinking of TW at all (sorry, in my sleuthing he isn't proven tied in so remains on the sidelines ) ... While posting my tablet went into Veeeerrrryyyy Slllooooooooow mode as it often does on this site so had to post half then edit to add rest. SORRY!

 

[tokyorose]

His Colorado attorney must of told him to lawyer up before LE from Indiana arrived. Hes not going to make it easy.

I believe it's the police who advise you of your right to an attorney when you are arrested. He probably just took the advice. If your DN, that's good advice to take.

 

[tokyorose]

You would. We don't know that he would or did. Just playing devils advocate. He clearly isn't thinking straight or he wouldn't have been waving a hatchet at people. And I definitely wouldn't do that if I was BG. I still think he's BG and he's not the sharpest tool in the box. IMO


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I am about 60/40 he is not BG... I don't think he's as unintelligent as you do. It sounds like he's been smart enough not to talk to police if he is BG... also seems as though he's been smart enough not to leave his full DNA profile on Abby and Libby... MOO. I am playing devil's advocate too.

 

[deedee21]

Yes, but before you get too excited about that, I would suggest a google search and take a look at how many bridges there are in Indiana... there are a ton!

He gave the location of the bridge. It is many miles away from the Monon bridge. But looks alot like it.
And we know hes a traveling man. No problem jumping into a car for a short road trip.

 

[deedee21]

You would. We don't know that he would or did. Just playing devils advocate. He clearly isn't thinking straight or he wouldn't have been waving a hatchet at people. And I definitely wouldn't do that if I was BG. I still think he's BG and he's not the sharpest tool in the box. IMO


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Hes not sharp at all. Thats why he left the phone behind.

 

[tokyorose]

He gave the location of the bridge. It is many miles away from the Monon bridge. But looks alot like it.
And we know hes a traveling man. No problem jumping into a car for a short road trip.

There has been some confusion about which bridge he meant when he talked to LE. There are overpasses that are bridges as well and it has never been confirmed which bridge he was actually under. Actually getting into a car when you don't have one isn't so easy. I believe ( MOO) that the red car belongs to KN.

 

[Megster024]

Hes not sharp at all. Thats why he left the phone behind.

And thank God he did. Libby is going to be the one to solve her own murder.


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[tokyorose]

Hes not sharp at all. Thats why he left the phone behind.

I think BG had no time to go hunting around for the phone, which I'm guessing Libby hid under dirt and leaves. If family was showing up calling for Abby and Libby it was either forget about the phone or get caught.

 

[Voodoo71]

I really wish DNA was that simple, but it's not, it's complicated. Different types can be difficult to test against each other. If DNA is what LE is using to include or exclude him it's not always a match or not. There may have been enough to include him but just as much to exclude him as well. Also, like others have said, the samples could very well have been contaminated or unfortunately mishandled.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Hes not sharp at all. Thats why he left the phone behind.

On the flip side of that assumption BG could be quite sharp.

The phone may have been left behind on purpose. Perhaps he left a messge for LE

 

[guitar]

I don't think we should read too much into the LE statement. It feels to me more of a "leave us alone, we're working" statement, rather than anything else. This is a high-profile case, and the media, as well as the public, have been clamoring for information. LE likely needs some space without having to deal with public anticipation.

DN may not have answered any questions (as is his right), whether or not he has an attorney. Ballistics examination and DNA comparison can take weeks to complete. Yes, it is possible to get these things done quickly, but that doesn't mean that they can get them done quickly. We don't know what the load at the forensics lab may be. These investigations can take time. To me, the statement says that DN is still a person of interest, but they have not gathered all of the data at this time.

 

[tokyorose]

I really wish DNA was that simple, but it's not, it's complicated. Different types can be difficult to test against each other. If DNA is what LE is using to include or exclude him it's not always a match or not. There may have been enough to include him but just as much to exclude him as well. Also, like others have said, the samples could very well have been contaminated or unfortunately mishandled.

Not to get too far into the DNA weeds, but would someone who looks like BG be more likely to share similar DNA to make it more difficult to exclude?

 

[tokyorose]

I don't think we should read too much into the LE statement. It feels to me more of a "leave us alone, we're working" statement, rather than anything else. This is a high-profile case, and the media, as well as the public, have been clamoring for information. LE likely needs some space without having to deal with public anticipation.

DN may not have answered any questions (as is his right), whether or not he has an attorney. Ballistics examination and DNA comparison can take weeks to complete. Yes, it is possible to get these things done quickly, but that doesn't mean that they can get them done quickly. We don't know what the load at the forensics lab may be. These investigations can take time. To me, the statement says that DN is still a person of interest, but they have not gathered all of the data at this time.

Probably the most logical post I've read all week.

 

[ocgrad]

Has anyone come up with anything that connects him or KN to Delphi or Carroll Co? Work? Friend? At first I thought why would he leave the area near Martinsville? But he was staying near Zionsville with a coworker who asked him to leave because he was too weird. I believe she said he was working with her husband who felt sorry for him. So if work took him to Zionsville might that have brought him up to Delphi? Does someone local know if there was hiring in mid Feb he might have heard about? IN Packers? I assumed he wouldn't have a vehicle since it was said he was living under a bridge instead of living in his car. Someone mentioned some road construction in the area, right? But LE would have thoroughly gone over both that. And maybe they did and that's why they started trying to visit him at the motel till he finally ran. Do we know a timeline from when he left KN, when he was staying with the coworker and then under a bridge? We know he was in Martinsville on 2/14. When might he have come to Delphi?

 

[Boxer]

I am about 60/40 he is not BG... I don't think he's as unintelligent as you do. It sounds like he's been smart enough not to talk to police if he is BG... also seems as though he's been smart enough not to leave his full DNA profile on Abby and Libby... MOO. I am playing devil's advocate too.

He is smart about systems - not getting drummed out of the Marines on his first exposing to a woman and her child while pleasuring himself - how did they not just discharge him? A mystery - he must have a mighty "Opie" effect on authorities.
Lood at how many thefts, threats, exposing himself, assaulting his wife in front of a child, property destruction, burglarizing friends homes, presented false ID to a police officer, failed to appear, arrested driving while suspended, driving with no insurance.

If he did do it - he is pretty confident he is going to get away with it like he always has.

 

[kkdj]

I believe it's the police who advise you of your right to an attorney when you are arrested. He probably just took the advice. If your DN, that's good advice to take.

This isn't his first rodeo. He knows how to play the game.

 

[MDATCA]

I keep trying to figure out how the actual events took place. The one thing that really gets to me is where did the girls get overtaken and how? I can't imagine the girls stayed on the bridge as BG was approaching. That is the last place I would have stayed if a stranger (especially someone that was already giving me an off feeling) was approaching. I would have gone into the woods and tried to hide or even thought about crossing the creek and going to a house if I was scared of them. I wonder if they did do that and went to RL property, one of the other houses or the cemetary and no one was there and BG hid and ambushed them from hiding when they tried to return to where they were to meet their ride. Do we know for a fact that they were forced across the creek and did not do it on their own to get away thinking he wouldn't follow them? How far is it by road or trails to get to the place on the side of the bridge they started on and were getting picked up? I could see the girls thinking the creepy guy is gone we can go back over the bridge because it is far to walk the other way. I think that they may have seen him and felt he was a little creepy but they really did not feel threatened or scared enough to get away before he got close. IMO they felt he was off but not a threat because they had seen others around. He had to get close enough to at least one of the girls to grab them or he had a gun or there was more than one person involved.

Now I do not know much about DNA but the wording I keep seeing from ISP is DNA found near the bridge. Does that mean there was no DNA transferred to the girls? If not the only way that could be is if they were shot and left from a distance which does not fit with the statements of how traumatic the scene was and the rumors about the injuries the girls had. I don't see how anything physical would not have left DNA on the girls. How long is it before DNA would deteriorate to a state were it was not very good in the weather and conditions they were in? I keep thinking if he did expose himself or masturbated there would be a good amount of DNA would be on his hands and transferred to the girls if he touched them.

 

[cryan89]

I keep trying to figure out how the actual events took place. The one thing that really gets to me is where did the girls get overtaken and how? I can't imagine the girls stayed on the bridge as BG was approaching. That is the last place I would have stayed if a stranger (especially someone that was already giving me an off feeling) was approaching. I would have gone into the woods and tried to hide or even thought about crossing the creek and going to a house if I was scared of them. I wonder if they did do that and went to RL property, one of the other houses or the cemetary and no one was there and BG hid and ambushed them from hiding when they tried to return to where they were to meet their ride. Do we know for a fact that they were forced across the creek and did not do it on their own to get away thinking he wouldn't follow them? How far is it by road or trails to get to the place on the side of the bridge they started on and were getting picked up? I could see the girls thinking the creepy guy is gone we can go back over the bridge because it is far to walk the other way. I think that they may have seen him and felt he was a little creepy but they really did not feel threatened or scared enough to get away before he got close. IMO they felt he was off but not a threat because they had seen others around. He had to get close enough to at least one of the girls to grab them or he had a gun or there was more than one person involved.

Now I do not know much about DNA but the wording I keep seeing from ISP is DNA found near the bridge. Does that mean there was no DNA transferred to the girls? If not the only way that could be is if they were shot and left from a distance which does not fit with the statements of how traumatic the scene was and the rumors about the injuries the girls had. I don't see how anything physical would not have left DNA on the girls. How long is it before DNA would deteriorate to a state were it was not very good in the weather and conditions they were in? I keep thinking if he did expose himself or masturbated there would be a good amount of DNA would be on his hands and transferred to the girls if he touched them.

Wondering this too. I just think there was such a limited window from the picture of Abby and people searching for them to have not been ambushed right near the bridge and either taken away somewhere and then killed or... I dont know!

 

[Boxer]

There has been some confusion about which bridge he meant when he talked to LE. There are overpasses that are bridges as well and it has never been confirmed which bridge he was actually under. Actually getting into a car when you don't have one isn't so easy. I believe ( MOO) that the red car belongs to KN.

I don't know if he had the car on 2/13, but he was sleeping in car belonging to the son of a friend in Indianapolis' for an extended time.
(And as a thank you, he then broke into their home.)

 

[dove28]

Not to get too far into the DNA weeds, but would someone who looks like BG be more likely to share similar DNA to make it more difficult to exclude?

No. DNA can differentiate you from your siblings/mother/father. It would not have any issue distinguishing between two similar looking people. I can explain in more detail if you'd like (I'm a biologist).