IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #72

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Just a generic update, as some on social media were concerned this morn about a Vine that went out stating DN has been released. He was released from Teller County and is in route to El Paso county for court, hence the computer generated vine alert.


https://imgur.com/gallery/IPZag
 
After my (unavoidably) lengthy post regarding my dtr (length required to adequately explain succession of events) I fought a strong urge to delete it all because it still scares and sickens me. Hopefully we can all learn from shared stories, though . We all come from different frames of reference. And the longer we live, the more experiences we have. Maybe KN simply found DN's attention toward her inviting, likely felt sorry for him, felt he was misunderstood and thought she could help him, as so many young girls and young women do believe. And re: a "man and woman" threatening ppl in CO maybe she was simply a passenger while he waved his hatched out the window yet they were both seen as doing it collaboratively . IDK, just wish LE would confirm- Is BG off the streets yet or not?????!!!!!!!!!??????
 
Just a generic update, as some on social media were concerned this morn about a Vine that went out stating DN has been released. He was released from Teller County and is in route to El Paso county for court, hence the computer generated vine alert.


https://imgur.com/gallery/IPZag
Thank you! Yes, these are coming up tomorrow and Wed:
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With regard to the sketch and mugshot similarities, I believe what is going on is this:

1. Out of exasperation and impatience, people want DN to be BG (to avoid having to go back to square one). Consequently, they see what they want to see in the sketch to bolster that. For them, it may be too frustrating to scrutinize the witness' and sketch artist's depiction of BG's hooded eyelids, and then have to consider that BG might actually be much older than 31.

2. Many Indy folks have lamented the fact that they seem to see men similar in appearance to BG when they're simply out running errands, but the hat apparently prevents them from being convinced. As detailed as the sketch is, many of BG's features are still somewhat generic, and susceptible to being interpreted and influenced by one's own bias.

3. For those wanting to consider someone else with a close (or closer) resemblance to the BG sketch, go back to mugshots.com and type in the name of a 48-year-old guy named Jimmy Dale Duvall, and note his features for comparison. Pay particular attention to his eyelids. He's probably not a viable suspect, but if he happened to be the number one POI, the age proximity would be added to the list of existing similarities to BG that's currently noted with DN ........ blue eyes notwithstanding.

I agree with all you said except i dont think JD is a POI. I definitely don't think its DN either. I think BG is in his 40s or 50s, a serial killer, and not local. I dont even think he had his phone on him that day, or turned it off/removed the battery. I think he's mostly old school, a daredevil risk taker, a roamer, and very ordinary looking. I think he is above average intelligence, definitely not a low IQ kinda guy, no. Genius? Nope, but definitely pretty intelligent especially in certain areas.
 
Long-time lurker, first-time poster who has been following Abby & Libby since they went missing.

I must say, the thing that spurred me to finally post is my surprise about all the posters saying weirdly supportive things about Daniel Nations. I get it that some people get the gut feeling DN isn’t A&L’s murderer, and others are just pointing out evidence that leads away from him or towards someone else as a prime suspect—those things are totally valid and a crucial part of sleuthing! I appreciate those insights and those aren’t the posts I’m referring to.

I’m more referring to posters writing things along the lines of, “This isn’t the guy, so just move on. Stop raking this innocent man over this coals—back to the drawing board!” I mean, even if you have your theory and good evidence for it, and you think DN PROBABLY isn’t BG for whatever reason, I truly don’t understand how anyone can completely rule him out and disregard the fact that LE in both Indiana and Colorado have declined to rule him out as a suspect in any of the cases in which he’s being investigated.

The other thing that disturbs me is the attitude of, “Well DN’s just an unlucky guy who had a traumatic childhood. He’s just a petty criminal and homeless person who can’t catch a break. We have no reason to suspect he’s capable of murder! We shouldn’t be so quick to judge/should give the poor guy a break.”

Even if we only judge DN by the crimes he has actually been CONVICTED OF in a court of law, by judge or jury, we already have proof that this man is a violent psychopath. With regard to his indecent exposure convictions, you guys, we are not talking about a flasher (which is bad enough, imo) or public urination. DN took sexual pleasure in terrorizing and violating women and children by forcing them to see him masturbate, watching them in a public women’s restroom while masturbating, directly addressing them with crude sexual comments while forcing them to see him masturbate. Put yourself in the victim’s shoes! What a horrifying, traumatic experience this evil man put them through—especially that poor mama with her child!

DN was also CONVICTED of breaking his wife’s nose in front of his child. Again, domestic violence is bad enough on its own and far worse than some posters here seem to comprehend, but this was an especially violent, over-the-top incident.

And those are are just the convictions! Add to that the things DN is charged with in Colorado—attempted assault and threatening folks with a HATCHET. LE decided there was probable cause to charge him with all of that very violent, unhinged behavior. On top of that, we have statements from neighbors and former employers that DN is a violent, frightening, rage-filled man. This is a person who was DISHONORABLY discharged by one of the most respected institutions in the world, the USMC.

DN may or may not be Bridge Guy. He may or may not be connected to the murders of A&L and/ or Tim Watkins. We all pray that person truly responsible for those crimes is caught and convicted, whoever it turns out to be. It is my personal opinion and best guess at this time *only* that we will find out that DN is connected to one or both cases, and probably others, but I am prepared to be wrong. That said, Daniel Nations doesn’t deserve our sympathy or wishes for a good future. He’s no victim. We’ve seen no evidence of him ever expressing remorse or anything but self-pity and rage. He’s a bad, bad guy who has violated and terrorized too many innocent victims already, most of them women and little kids, and been convicted of doing so by respected institutions. Let’s hold no illusions about exactly who we’re dealing with here.
 
I think he is above average intelligence, definitely not a low IQ kinda guy, no. Genius? Nope, but definitely pretty intelligent especially in certain areas.

You took the thoughts out of my mind.

Personally, I have tried to make DN fit but it just doesn't feel right IMHO I think I am one of the few who doesn't see the likeness in the sketch to DN - but then again I don't see the likeness in the sketch to BG either. I probably won't be popular for those thoughts. So I am sort of back at square one in any case.

In response to Lore Listener

DN may or may not be Bridge Guy. He may or may not be connected to the murders of A&L and/ or Tim Watkins. We all pray that person truly responsible for those crimes is caught and convicted, whoever it turns out to be. It is my personal opinion and best guess at this time *only* that we will find out that DN is connected to one or both cases, and probably others, but I am prepared to be wrong. That said, Daniel Nations doesn’t deserve our sympathy or wishes for a good future. He’s no victim. We’ve seen no evidence of him ever expressing remorse or anything but self-pity and rage. He’s a bad, bad guy who has violated and terrorized too many innocent victims already, most of them women and little kids, and been convicted of doing so by respected institutions. Let’s hold no illusions about exactly who we’re dealing with here

I personally don't feel sorry for DN at all and the fact that he has been a habitual breaker of the law actually leaves me cold that he has been allowed out on the streets leaves me even colder.
KR
Reacher back to lurking.
 
Since he is the father of her children, you would thing that she would deny his involvement. She almost teases by not stating what most women in her position would, "Not him, no way!" Usually women in these type relationships defend their man no matter what.
 
Long-time lurker, first-time poster who has been following Abby & Libby since they went missing.

I must say, the thing that spurred me to finally post is my surprise about all the posters saying weirdly supportive things about Daniel Nations. I get it that some people get the gut feeling DN isn’t A&L’s murderer, and others are just pointing out evidence that leads away from him or towards someone else as a prime suspect—those things are totally valid and a crucial part of sleuthing! I appreciate those insights and those aren’t the posts I’m referring to.

I’m more referring to posters writing things along the lines of, “This isn’t the guy, so just move on. Stop raking this innocent man over this coals—back to the drawing board!” I mean, even if you have your theory and good evidence for it, and you think DN PROBABLY isn’t BG for whatever reason, I truly don’t understand how anyone can completely rule him out and disregard the fact that LE in both Indiana and Colorado have declined to rule him out as a suspect in any of the cases in which he’s being investigated.

The other thing that disturbs me is the attitude of, “Well DN’s just an unlucky guy who had a traumatic childhood. He’s just a petty criminal and homeless person who can’t catch a break. We have no reason to suspect he’s capable of murder! We shouldn’t be so quick to judge/should give the poor guy a break.”

Even if we only judge DN by the crimes he has actually been CONVICTED OF in a court of law, by judge or jury, we already have proof that this man is a violent psychopath. With regard to his indecent exposure convictions, you guys, we are not talking about a flasher (which is bad enough, imo) or public urination. DN took sexual pleasure in terrorizing and violating women and children by forcing them to see him masturbate, watching them in a public women’s restroom while masturbating, directly addressing them with crude sexual comments while forcing them to see him masturbate. Put yourself in the victim’s shoes! What a horrifying, traumatic experience this evil man put them through—especially that poor mama with her child!

DN was also CONVICTED of breaking his wife’s nose in front of his child. Again, domestic violence is bad enough on its own and far worse than some posters here seem to comprehend, but this was an especially violent, over-the-top incident.

And those are are just the convictions! Add to that the things DN is charged with in Colorado—attempted assault and threatening folks with a HATCHET. LE decided there was probable cause to charge him with all of that very violent, unhinged behavior. On top of that, we have statements from neighbors and former employers that DN is a violent, frightening, rage-filled man. This is a person who was DISHONORABLY discharged by one of the most respected institutions in the world, the USMC.

DN may or may not be Bridge Guy. He may or may not be connected to the murders of A&L and/ or Tim Watkins. We all pray that person truly responsible for those crimes is caught and convicted, whoever it turns out to be. It is my personal opinion and best guess at this time *only* that we will find out that DN is connected to one or both cases, and probably others, but I am prepared to be wrong. That said, Daniel Nations doesn’t deserve our sympathy or wishes for a good future. He’s no victim. We’ve seen no evidence of him ever expressing remorse or anything but self-pity and rage. He’s a bad, bad guy who has violated and terrorized too many innocent victims already, most of them women and little kids, and been convicted of doing so by respected institutions. Let’s hold no illusions about exactly who we’re dealing with here.
Not really seeing much sympathy for him. I have zero .
I give the benefit of doubt to posters here at a crime forum they understand the gravity of Domestic Violence.
 
Since he is the father of her children, you would thing that she would deny his involvement. She almost teases by not stating what most women in her position would, "Not him, no way!" Usually women in these type relationships defend their man no matter what.
Bingo.
 
Not really seeing much sympathy for him. I have zero .
I give the benefit of doubt to posters here at a crime forum they understand the gravity of Domestic Violence.

I’m glad you don’t have sympathy for this creep, and agree with you that most posters here don’t. I don’t want to call out any specific posters or posts for obvious reasons, but there are unfortunately quite a few the type of posts I addressed sprinkled around. There was even a poster within the past few weeks who said they were going to take a break from this board because (paraphrasing) they couldn’t bear to see the witch hunt against this most-likely-innocent man any longer. No joke.

My only intention with my post was to emphasize the fact that we have plenty of facts and evidence to judge DN as a violent, dangerous man, and more importantly, numerous courts have agreed.
 
Not really seeing much sympathy for him. I have zero .
I give the benefit of doubt to posters here at a crime forum they understand the gravity of Domestic Violence.

I definitely have no sympathy or a good thing to say about DN. I am acutely aware of his criminal background and the kind of person he is. Do i think hes an abuser, a sexual offender, a violent unstable guy? Yep, and alot of other things too. Do i think he's the Delphi killer? Nope. I think hes just a dumb **** who happened to look similiar (in the eyes of some people) to a sketch and has ties to Indiana. Thats all. Theres a ton of guys who are violent criminals out there, oh my god the rabbit holes i have been down all these months, the digging i have done. <modsnip>
 
I&#8217;m glad you don&#8217;t have sympathy for this creep, and agree with you that most posters here don&#8217;t. I don&#8217;t want to call out any specific posters or posts for obvious reasons, but there are unfortunately quite a few the type of posts I addressed sprinkled around. There was even a poster within the past few weeks who said they were going to take a break from this board because (paraphrasing) they couldn&#8217;t bear to see the witch hunt against this most-likely-innocent man any longer. No joke.

My only intention with my post was to emphasize the fact that we have plenty of facts and evidence to judge DN as a violent, dangerous man, and more importantly, numerous courts have agreed.
I can understand that for whomever stated that. I hate mob mentality or tunnel vision, it happens often. A big jump from the creepy stuff he did vs murder.
Just scroll and roll.
 
I agree with all you said except i dont think JD is a POI. I definitely don't think its DN either. I think BG is in his 40s or 50s, a serial killer, and not local. I dont even think he had his phone on him that day, or turned it off/removed the battery. I think he's mostly old school, a daredevil risk taker, a roamer, and very ordinary looking. I think he is above average intelligence, definitely not a low IQ kinda guy, no. Genius? Nope, but definitely pretty intelligent especially in certain areas.
I think the coincidences are getting to be too many for him not to be BG. That TW should be killed on the very day DN's brother's killer only receives a light sentence and that DN was already enraged beforehand and getting mad at other road users is the motive LE need. We've not heard about the ballistics which should be conclusive one way or the other. There were similarities with Delphi, so was that an enraged killing also? It has been described as brutal. The likeness to the sketch and the BG, the Southern drawl, the limp, homeless status, living under bridges, drug user, short fuse and violence and sexual assaults against women and children -more coincidences. He was in Indiana at the time of the killings. He had access to a vehicle. I am content to wait for El Paso to deal with the numerous charges and I don't think he will be out of jail any time soon. AJMO.

BTW welcomr Lore. Excellent first post - I hadn't seen it when I posted this but you can see I support your sentiments. A father who breaks the nose of the mother of hiaals children and tries to choke her, both assaults in the presence of the children, deserves absolutely no sympathy whatsoever IMO. Justice will take it's course.
 
A big jump from the creepy stuff he did vs murder.


But that’s actually my point. The felonies he was convicted of WEREN’T just “creepy stuff”. They were serious, violent crimes. That little child & mother who had a masturbating man violate them by watching them using the restroom in a public, women’s bathroom... Can you imagine the terror they felt when they realized what was happening? And they will deal with the repercussions of being the victims of a sex crime for the rest of their lives.

And I also disagree that there is a “big jump” from what he was convicted of to murder. When you punch someone in the face or head area hard enough to break their nose, you absolutely run the risk of causing that person’s death. Coincidentally, this is exactly how DN’s brother died—being kicked in the head. And we don’t know whether the person who kicked him was intending to kill him or merely to harm him. I suppose that’s why he was able to plea-bargain for a lighter sentence. But the result is still the same, someone died.

Likewise, when one is in a hatchet-wielding rage, as we have plenty of evidence that DN has experienced many times, a potential murder is just one swing of the arm away.
 

With regard to the sketch and mugshot similarities, I believe what is going on is this:

1. Out of exasperation and impatience, people want DN to be BG (to avoid having to go back to square one). Consequently, they see what they want to see in the sketch to bolster that. For them, it may be too frustrating to scrutinize the witness' and sketch artist's depiction of BG's hooded eyelids, and then have to consider that BG might actually be much older than 31.

2. Many Indy folks have lamented the fact that they seem to see men similar in appearance to BG when they're simply out running errands, but the hat apparently prevents them from being convinced. As detailed as the sketch is, many of BG's features are still somewhat generic, and susceptible to being interpreted and influenced by one's own bias.

3. For those wanting to consider someone else with a close (or closer) resemblance to the BG sketch, go back to mugshots.com and type in the name of a 48-year-old guy named Jimmy Dale Duvall, and note his features for comparison. Pay particular attention to his eyelids. He's probably not a viable suspect, but if he happened to be the number one POI, the age proximity would be added to the list of existing similarities to BG that's currently noted with DN ........ blue eyes notwithstanding.

I agree with much of this.

Each day I feel more and more that I fall into a minority that DOESN'T think the sketch looks like DN. I honestly do not see it. Similarities? Sure. But the sketch is so generic that I believe I could take almost any POI, put them up against the sketch, and see the same similarities.
 
Well, it is apparently not a stretch for a "homeless, registered RSO" to go off the rails and kill someone. It just happened here (Indianapolis) on Friday night when a man murdered a guy in Kroger (grocery store) in the dairy aisle.

http://fox59.com/2017/10/22/family-says-kroger-victim-fatally-shot-with-own-gun/

^ details about shooter, RSO, homeless, etc

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...ndys-south-side-suspect-leads-police-on-chase

^ pic of suspect (possibly resembles BG sketch even)

He is in jail at least.
 
But that&#8217;s actually my point. The felonies he was convicted of WEREN&#8217;T just &#8220;creepy stuff&#8221;. They were serious, violent crimes. That little child & mother who had a masturbating man violate them by watching them using the restroom in a public, women&#8217;s bathroom... Can you imagine the terror they felt when they realized what was happening? And they will deal with the repercussions of being the victims of a sex crime for the rest of their lives.

And I also disagree that there is a &#8220;big jump&#8221; from what he was convicted of to murder. When you punch someone in the face or head area hard enough to break their nose, you absolutely run the risk of causing that person&#8217;s death. Coincidentally, this is exactly how DN&#8217;s brother died&#8212;being kicked in the head. And we don&#8217;t know whether the person who kicked him was intending to kill him or merely to harm him. I suppose that&#8217;s why he was able to plea-bargain for a lighter sentence. But the result is still the same, someone died.

Likewise, when one is in a hatchet-wielding rage, as we have plenty of evidence that DN has experienced many times, a potential murder is just one swing of the arm away.
I can imagine besides a serious #metoo person I was a 4th grader in NY with a man and his junk out. My best advice I guess is don't assume?

I respectfully disagree that it really is a big jump to murdering two young barely teen girls.
DN is not convicted on any of those hatchet charges.

Sure he fits lots of things but me I like more evidence. I'm not going to tell anyone they are wrong that feel it's him, idk. So don't tell me I am for sitting back and waiting on evidence or information from actual LE.
 
I think the coincidences are getting to be too many for him not to be BG. That TW should be killed on the very day DN's brother's killer only receives a light sentence and that DN was already enraged beforehand and getting mad at other road users is the motive LE need. We've not heard about the ballistics which should be conclusive one way or the other. There were similarities with Delphi, so was that an enraged killing also? It has been described as brutal. The likeness to the sketch and the BG, the Southern drawl, the limp, homeless status, living under bridges, drug user, short fuse and violence and sexual assaults against women and children -more coincidences. He was in Indiana at the time of the killings. He had access to a vehicle. I am content to wait for El Paso to deal with the numerous charges and I don't think he will be out of jail any time soon. AJMO.

BTW welcomr Lore. Excellent first post - I hadn't seen it when I posted this but you can see I support your sentiments. A father who breaks the nose of the mother of his children and tries to choke her, both assaulys in front of the children deserves absolutely no sympathy whatsoever IMO.

I believe that some of your examples are, indeed, simply coincidences. He was in Indiana, had access to a vehicle, and resembles BG-so do many other men (including lots of RSOs). We have yet to see any evidence that he was in Delphi, had ever been to Delphi, or that the Delphi killings involved a hatchet (which seems to be one of his MOs). Not all of us think he looks just like the sketch, either, and many of his previous acts could be considered hearsay, since he wasn't charged with anything.

I need more evidence that ties him to the crime before I am that confident.
 
But that&#8217;s actually my point. The felonies he was convicted of WEREN&#8217;T just &#8220;creepy stuff&#8221;. They were serious, violent crimes. That little child & mother who had a masturbating man violate them by watching them using the restroom in a public, women&#8217;s bathroom... Can you imagine the terror they felt when they realized what was happening? And they will deal with the repercussions of being the victims of a sex crime for the rest of their lives.

And I also disagree that there is a &#8220;big jump&#8221; from what he was convicted of to murder. When you punch someone in the face or head area hard enough to break their nose, you absolutely run the risk of causing that person&#8217;s death. Coincidentally, this is exactly how DN&#8217;s brother died&#8212;being kicked in the head. And we don&#8217;t know whether the person who kicked him was intending to kill him or merely to harm him. I suppose that&#8217;s why he was able to plea-bargain for a lighter sentence. But the result is still the same, someone died.

Likewise, when one is in a hatchet-wielding rage, as we have plenty of evidence that DN has experienced many times, a potential murder is just one swing of the arm away.

I whole-heartedly agree with you. I don think there is a big jump from a sexual deviant, a violent domestic abuser, and a menacer with a hatchet to being a murderer. Has DN been dealt a poor hand early in life? Absolutely. So have countless others. But most just try to suck it up and lead a normal life. It's not a free pass for these disgusting acts. How many times does he need to be incarcerated before he learns his lesson? Evidently not enough. He should not be allowed to get his hand slapped and return to society too do it over and over again. I personally think he is BG, and the killer of Tim Watkins. Too many coincidences. Time will tell, but in the meantime, I hope DN is dealt with accordingly , as he is a menace to society and has been for some time!
 
I agree with much of this.

Each day I feel more and more that I fall into a minority that DOESN'T think the sketch looks like DN. I honestly do not see it. Similarities? Sure. But the sketch is so generic that I believe I could take almost any POI, put them up against the sketch, and see the same similarities.

I think the sketch looks like an older person myself and the eyes do look like DN a bit. So I can understand why people ran with it.
Me I would never have put two and two together just on the sketch alone, at all actually. However, sketches on perps are a funny thing to me, half the time not too close of a match. Now on the actual BG photos nope, nothing compares but really what can. They are awful.
 
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