IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #74

[kizzykat]

I wasn't hallucinating after all. There is a divorce case I had seen on record for DN, however it was March 2016, not April 2017. It doesn't show by searching DN's name because of a typo with his name: "andDaniel". The lack of a space between the words throws search results off. That case fizzled out though, no-show. https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase/#/vw/Search

@kkdj, hope that helps some.

mmmmm......I can't find anywhere in IN courts that says DN was getting a divorce.

Add a hmmmm from me. I swear I saw it other times, but it's not there now. Only thing from April 2017 now is DN being on the receiving end of petition for child support. Tried to serve papers in June 2017, case ultimately dismissed 10/17/2017.

His wife, Katelyn, filed for divorce in April 2017, according to Indiana court records. The case is still pending. Both Katelyn and Daniel failed to appear at several hearings in the divorce case, and it appears court officials have been unable to reach them for several months. A Facebook post by his wife shows that they moved to Colorado in May to “start over.”
http://heavy.com/news/2017/09/daniel-nations-colorado-hatchet-man-delphi-indiana-murders-photos/

 

[margarita25]

Why men use masturbation to harass women
www.cnn.com/2017/11/09/health/masturbation-sexual-harassment/index.html

 

[minazoe]

Yes, it does sound like 2 different incidents. I don't see LE patrolling Hummel so I'm not sure how he got the park ticket...maybe the park department can give out tickets? The Police Academy is right across the road from the back entrance to Hummel so we have a lot of cops coming in and out of Plainfield. Maybe he got stopped first, then went to the park and started chopping trees in frustration. lol..

This guy gets busted more than a pick pocket at a cop bar.

 

[Area52]

I wasn't hallucinating after all. There is a divorce case I had seen on record for DN, however it was March 2016, not April 2017. It doesn't show by searching DN's name because of a typo with his name: "andDaniel". The lack of a space between the words throws search results off. That case fizzled out though, no-show. https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase/#/vw/Search

@kkdj, hope that helps some.

When you click on the case description , it is actually a request for support, not a divorce. She didn't follow up with it, so it was dismissed. She just doesn't seem to want to leave him!!! I don't get it! MOO

 

[Shiressleuth]

This guy gets busted more than a pick pocket at a cop bar.

I've been looking at the county maps to see his travels and it is a really large area he has covered from Bartholomew county south of Indianapolis and up to Boone in the North with all the connecting counties in between. He's only been in Colorado five months before getting pulled over for incidences in 3 counties already. So thats 9 counties altogether - and I bet he wasn't registered in them all. To say he is unlikely to just travel two more counties Clinton and Carroll is clearly not out of the question for him.

Eta great expression btw. :laughing:

 

[Boxer]

When you click on the case description , it is actually a request for support, not a divorce. She didn't follow up with it, so it was dismissed. She just doesn't seem to want to leave him!!! I don't get it! MOO

Its a big danger to initiate divorce and restraining orders. It enrages DV men more. Her motivation for not showing up to this, especially stating in a letter she feared him is as likely to be, "I have to be safe first"

Even now, she knows even with all these charges, he could be out in less than 2 years. She isn't safe and she knows it, he would not respect any court order.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

This guy gets busted more than a pick pocket at a cop bar.

This is part of the reason I think he may not be BG. How can someone who has so many run ins with LE pull off a double homicide?

I’m leaning towards his alibi consists of illegal activity not related to the murders, but possibly involving one or more people, and I don’t think KN is one of them.

 

[Bootsctr]

The perp in Kathlynn Shepard's 2013 abduction and murder was Michael Klunder. Sick, sick, sick individual! Kathlynn (13) and her friend D*** (age 12) were abducted after getting off the school bus in Dayton, Iowa. Klunder lured them by promising money for a "mowing job." D*** was able to escape, but Kathlynn was murdered by Klunder and her body was dumped in the Des Moines River.

If any of you are curious and would like to compare monster (DN) to monster (MK), here is a link to Klunder's timeline. It is truly jaw-dropping! Starting at age 16 and ending with his suicide at age 42, this guy was in some kind of reform school or prison. A travesty of justice that he was released and ended up marrying a young woman!!!

A timeline of violence: Lulls between Klunder attacks never more than a year. After the age of 16, Michael James Klunder spent less than five years outside of the Iowa corrections system until his suicide on May 20, at age 42.

http://globegazette.com/news/local/...cle_b448708a-db89-11e2-bf27-0019bb2963f4.html

Honestly, I thought this guy would definitely be the one who had kidnapped Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Morrissey, but ultimately he was ruled out. Elizabeth Cook and Lyric Morrissey abduction and murders remain unsolved.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...sdale-13-July-2012-38&p=13746565#post13746565

 

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by FromGermany
I have noticed that we have seen no single pic where DN looks like a homeless man sleeping in a car under bridges. His clothing seems to be clean, he is wearing nice t-shirts, his hair seems always fresh cut, his facial hair seems always shaven.
I have to wonder.

I witnessed from a close distance under a bypass this morning in Colorado Springs several homeless in cold temps. I have treated several homeless people in the ER. IMO, BG nor DN doesn’t come close to appearing without the hygiene necessities of living under a bridge, even in a car. Poor people maintain some level of personal care and wear semi clean clothes with shelter. The current weather around Delphi during that time was cold and wet from a previous snow. I cannot observe any dirty muddy clothes or shoes and also appears shaven minus the goat tee. If a shelter was involved I am positive LE would have any possible leads. IMO homeless or transient is off the table for BG.

Originally Posted by FromGermany
I have noticed that we have seen no single pic where DN looks like a homeless man sleeping in a car under bridges. His clothing seems to be clean, he is wearing nice t-shirts, his hair seems always fresh cut, his facial hair seems always shaven.
I have to wonder.

I witnessed from a close distance under a bypass this morning in Colorado Springs several homeless in cold temps. I have treated several homeless people in the ER. IMO, BG nor DN doesn’t come close to appearing without the hygiene necessities of living under a bridge, even in a car. Poor people maintain some level of personal care and wear semi clean clothes with shelter. The current weather around Delphi during that time was cold and wet from a previous snow. I cannot observe any dirty muddy clothes or shoes and also appears shaven minus the goat tee. If a shelter was involved I am positive LE would have any possible leads. IMO homeless or transient is off the table for BG.

I noticed the same thing. This is what I thought.

IMO If he is wearing his own clothing:

1. As an ex-Marine, being cleanly dressed in the field is not a problem, just getting the laundry done and having a hygiene kit.

2. From his general look, I thought he had a standing career, retail supervisor, machinist maybe, IMO not enough permanent crease lines in his pants for a driver or other seated work.

IMO if he is wearing someone elses clothes
1. He is wearing some thrift store items, RottMom pointed out his jacket is exactly a fit for what the Amish in the area wear as work jackets.
So then is he intentionally disguising himself and if so, why did he let someone see him on the trail.

 

[minazoe]

this is the thing I get from DN.

he obviously doesn't get it. he keeps getting caught , he keeps on offending again and again..and all the while getting caught, getting divorced, getting evicted..seems to piss him off but not enough to change his behavior.

I do think he has a level of intelligence because his wife describes him as a liar.

so he does a lot of lying, a lot of bad things like keying the cars of people who are trying to help him.

then we have him possibly slaughtering some pigs that weren't his to slaughter.

we have him breaking noses and breaking into cars and threatening people with violence..

then theres the exposure thing. very very disurbing.

so Im getting a full on remorseless psychopath here..and one that is fully capable of murder. MOO

 

[Bootsctr]

There were some interesting statistics noted by the FBI regarding Klunder and his ability to abduct 2 victims, which he did twice!

My apologies if this is duplicate information.

Smock said it is very rare for an abductor to take two girls at the same time. In fact, before the Evansdale girls went missing, the FBI had only recorded 15 such incidents since 1974, Smock said.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...-michael-klunder-ruled-out-evansdale/9104893/

I don't know if the 15 incidents of abduction of 2 individuals at once included Klunder's first abduction of two 3-year-old girls. In any event, Abigail and Liberty's abduction and including Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Morrissey would bring that number to 17 incidents.

Klunder becomes the main suspect in the kidnapping of two, 3-year-old girls, who were taken from the front yard of their Charles City day care.

Both are found later that day in a garbage receptacle in Worth County. One of the children had been choked hard enough to raise concerns about her health. Other residents at the complex point to Klunder as a potential suspect.

http://globegazette.com/news/local/...cle_b448708a-db89-11e2-bf27-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[kizzykat]

When you click on the case description , it is actually a request for support, not a divorce. She didn't follow up with it, so it was dismissed. She just doesn't seem to want to leave him!!! I don't get it! MOO

Ok, I take it back, I was hallucinating (or went too far down the rabbit hole) :gaah:
Actually I was reading the fine print in the case details but missed the key part in the summary. Thank you for catching it and correcting it!

 

[Area52]

Ok, I take it back, I was hallucinating (or went too far down the rabbit hole) :gaah:
Actually I was reading the fine print in the case details but missed the key part in the summary. Thank you for catching it and correcting it!

No problem Kizzy. So much information to digest regarding his court hearings. I just wish the past 2 received more publicity. I pray that this is solved soon so that the families can start their journey towards peace and healing.

 

[Love Never Fails]

this is the thing I get from DN.

he obviously doesn't get it. he keeps getting caught , he keeps on offending again and again..and all the while getting caught, getting divorced, getting evicted..seems to piss him off but not enough to change his behavior.

I do think he has a level of intelligence because his wife describes him as a liar.

so he does a lot of lying, a lot of bad things like keying the cars of people who are trying to help him.

then we have him possibly slaughtering some pigs that weren't his to slaughter.

we have him breaking noses and breaking into cars and threatening people with violence..

then theres the exposure thing. very very disurbing.

so Im getting a full on remorseless psychopath here..and one that is fully capable of murder. MOO

I agree with your assessment that DN is a psychopath. I don’t know if he is guilty of this crime but it is easy for me to see him as a serial killer who was searching for a victim and may be set off by rage.

I can also agree with BoP that he is innocent until proven guilty.

For me, it can only be one of two scenarios. First, LE believes DN is their guy and LE is building their case slowly with no need to share their evidence with the public.

Second, they know DN is not their guy but are staying silent while investigating someone else and allowing the public to speculate.

Either way, LE is not concerned with what we at WS think of their case.😏. JMO

 

[kizzykat]

Its a big danger to initiate divorce and restraining orders. It enrages DV men more. Her motivation for not showing up to this, especially stating in a letter she feared him is as likely to be, "I have to be safe first"

Even now, she knows even with all these charges, he could be out in less than 2 years. She isn't safe and she knows it, he would not respect any court order.

<BBM>
I agree, DN won't respect a restraining order. I don't understand why she's talking to MSM and giving long interviews on youtube if she's so in fear of him. She could just as easily assist LE with what she knows and not utter a peep to interviewers. Although she does appear to be trying to publicly make sure her name is clear in all this mess, which could be instinctual behavior, no one wants their name associated with murder. However, at the same time she goes a step further and offers up her husband in bits and pieces. She went into detail in the video pointing out similarities between the sketch and her husband and how much that frightened her. That would seem a very dangerous game to play with a guy like DN. At some point he'll hear & read it all, if he hasn't already. It will set him off in a major way and she knows it. Unless she's confident he will never be free again, in which case it wouldn't matter what she's said because he won't be able to get to her. MOO

 

[Shiressleuth]

With regard to the Monon High Bridge and location. One feeling I've had from the beginning is that BG was drawn to it either as a RR or bridge enthusiast. It's a pretty unusual RR bridge. The reason I feel this is because of what I've seen firsthand. I used to do a regular commute through an area where many RR tracks converge. So when the gates went down there were multiple tracks between the gates. There were many times I'd see people (I only recall males) of all ages lingering next to the tracks. In all kinds of weather. Sometimes there would be one or two but also as many as 6-8. They had binoculars, cameras (often on a tripod), keeping an eye on a specific train coming. When gates would go down they'd remain between them to watch the train pass or get photos. I couldn't relate at all, but it became clear there are people out there who are utterly fascinated by trains and quite passionate about them. If BG has a fascination with trains and/or bridges I could easily see it being a draw for him. (There was another poster way back in Feb/Mar who IIRC was a RR enthusiast and also felt the High Bridge could be a draw.)

I have never said DN is BG, it fluctuates for me but most days I lean 70/30 he could be. If DN is a RR/Train enthusiast, there's yet another coincidence to point out. In the youtube interview KN points out the bridge DN was living under is 'down from' the Camby, IN Walmart near Arby's on 67. The WalMart has an address of Camby but it's physical location is south of Camby in unincorporated Friendswood, Indiana, a town with RR history. The Arby's is 4 miles further south on 67 closer to Mooresville. Immediately south of there the White Lick Creek goes under 67 (so he could've been under there), but there's also a RR bridge a few hundred feet to the east. (pics attached) I find it eerily similar to the High Bridge & Deer Creek. MOO.

Friendswood is an unincorporated community in Guilford Township, Hendricks County, Indiana. Friendswood was a station and shipping point on the railroad. A post office was established at Friendswood in 1868, and remained in operation until it was discontinued in 1909.<BBM>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendswood,_Indiana

There is a website called www.indianatrails.com and one of the trails featured is Deer Creek water trail from Delphi to Camden (approx 10 miles). It explains where to park vehicles to use the trail. It may be of interest as we have been discussing the area.

Kizzykat, this part of your post is especially interesting to me.



When I read that DN was ticketed in Plainfield, I was mulling over what park he might have been in. Hummel would have been the obvious choice but it's pretty busy. Then, I decided on Sodalis; although it's outside of Plainfield city limits so I don't know if he could have been ticketed there. It's not overly busy, has a small lake and is pretty secluded. In fact, one day I started walking around the lake and got so spooked that I turned around and came back. Sodalis is about 1 1/2 miles from Friendswood and (I think) Camby is about the same distance from Friendswood.

Yes, it does sound like 2 different incidents. I don't see LE patrolling Hummel so I'm not sure how he got the park ticket...maybe the park department can give out tickets? The Police Academy is right across the road from the back entrance to Hummel so we have a lot of cops coming in and out of Plainfield. Maybe he got stopped first, then went to the park and started chopping trees in frustration. lol..

I think you could be onto something with the liking for rail trails because Plainsfield also has a 4.6 mile rail trail as well as the White Lick Creek. His hanging around bridges, creeks and rail trails is really giving me the creeps.

BTW the guys hanging round live train tracks with bins, taking down train numbers, we call trainspotters in uk.

 

[kkdj]

Has anybody researched all the states to see if DN has a record in other states? We really don't know where all he has been except for Indiana and Colorado when he was given citations, arrested, evicted and when he signed in as a RSO. What happened with his whereabouts in between those times?

 

[ShHolmz]

Agree with M2C about the location of the bridge and how likely someone from the highway would turn off and end up at there.

The Freedom Bridge is easily recognized from the highway. The Monon High Bridge is not.

If anyone hasn't read our member Falling Down's post about their trip to the Monon High Bridge I highly encourage it as they made various observations that will help in understanding the location. Or look at mtnlites posts as that person is local and says the same.

Apologies to anyone else local I'm not recalling at the moment.

There are a few houses nearby. Owners complained of Things happening all night at the trail head
What about someone looking for a nice barn to sleep in? and things to steal from houses where the residents are out of town for extended periods? Plenty of places to borrow things. Sorry, there is something seriously wrong with DN. I would also question each minute detail regarding the past murders of his family members. JMO.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

this is the thing I get from DN.

he obviously doesn't get it. he keeps getting caught , he keeps on offending again and again..and all the while getting caught, getting divorced, getting evicted..seems to piss him off but not enough to change his behavior.

I do think he has a level of intelligence because his wife describes him as a liar.

so he does a lot of lying, a lot of bad things like keying the cars of people who are trying to help him.

then we have him possibly slaughtering some pigs that weren't his to slaughter.

we have him breaking noses and breaking into cars and threatening people with violence..

then theres the exposure thing. very very disurbing.

so Im getting a full on remorseless psychopath here..and one that is fully capable of murder. MOO

I agree with your evaluation on DN. While I believe he’s more clever than most people (in general, not WSers!) give him credit for and I do think he could be capable of murder, I’m not sure it would be Abby and Libby.

I’m starting to think DN would be sloppy about his crime. He keeps getting caught at what he does. I don’t think it would take LE this long to connect him to MHB if he was the one who killed the girls.

I could see him flying into a rage and committing the murders, but I don’t think he would be organized enough to not leave incriminating evidence behind, especially in the narrow timeframe between the picture of Abby on the bridge and the first phone call from their ride home. (No link at the moment, so JMO like the rest of this post.) If it was rage violence with a small window of time to commit the murders, I would think it would be very disorganized.

I’m back to thinking BG is an organized SK who was at the MHB looking for an opportunity. He could also be responsible for Lyric and Elizabeth. There’s even less to connect DN to Iowa than to Delphi. Maybe this time coincidences are just coincidences. Still not completely ruling him out (down to about 30/70 DN is BG) but I need to look at other possibilities.

 

[mtnlites]

I agree with your evaluation on DN. While I believe he&#8217;s more clever than most people (in general, not WSers!) give him credit for and I do think he could be capable of murder, I&#8217;m not sure it would be Abby and Libby.

I&#8217;m starting to think DN would be sloppy about his crime. He keeps getting caught at what he does. I don&#8217;t think it would take LE this long to connect him to MHB if he was the one who killed the girls.

I could see him flying into a rage and committing the murders, but I don&#8217;t think he would be organized enough to not leave incriminating evidence behind, especially in the narrow timeframe between the picture of Abby on the bridge and the first phone call from their ride home. (No link at the moment, so JMO like the rest of this post.) If it was rage violence with a small window of time to commit the murders, I would think it would be very disorganized.

I&#8217;m back to thinking BG is an organized SK who was at the MHB looking for an opportunity. He could also be responsible for Lyric and Elizabeth. There&#8217;s even less to connect DN to Iowa than to Delphi. Maybe this time coincidences are just coincidences. Still not completely ruling him out (down to about 30/70 DN is BG) but I need to look at other possibilities.

I have a hard time seeing DN being able to carry out this crime without being immediately linked to it. Stealth does not seem to be his MO.