IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #74

[margarita25]

Bringing this forward, and dangit, it's all just really hitting me now.

"Ives says he would rescind his resignation if enough evidence emerged to file charges in either case."
https://www.wthr.com/article/prosec...lphi-murders-flora-fire-deaths-still-unsolved

Again, there you have it. IMO this very clearly states/implies that currently there is NOT "enough evidence emerged to file charges".

This is the bottom line as we have it, jmo.

(There it is...dangit!!!!!! Sorry it really took some time for this to fully absorb...)

So, either:

1). DN is BG but there is not enough evidence to file charges (at this time).
2). DN is not BG.

If #2, BG is still out there.

:banghead:

ETA: the good news is if the case is #1, DN is BG but it just cant be proven, hopefully DN will be prosecuted for the murder of Tim Watkins and will never be able to hurt or kill anyone again.

 

[kkdj]

http://www.topsurvivalweapons.com/survival-axe/

axes, hatchets and tomahawks.

 

[margarita25]

I wonder if there are different strong opinions behind the scenes as to whether or not there is enough evidence to file charges, or if it's pretty much a unanimous "we have absolutely nooooothing"...

(Eta: in other words/additionally, is there ANY evidence at all??)

 

[Shiressleuth]

I've been meaning to inquire into how to start a poll thread simply to ask:

Do you think DN is BG?

1. Yes
2. No
3. Undecided/I don't know/Maybe

*I will flag this post and ask a moderator how and where to create a separate poll thread for this question, and if its allowed, so as to not sidetrack the thread.

I've seen it done on other threads. Do a separate post for each option.
Eg.

Thank this post if you think DN is BG.

And

Thank this post if you think DN is not BG.

Then you just look at the thanks. Undecideds either don't thank or thank each post if they're 50/50.

 

[Steleheart]

It appears in the BG pics that one of his hands is in his coat pocket, the other in his pants pocket. This seems strange to me. Off balance. Am I looking at this correctly?

I have always seen him this way. Right hand in his coat pocket. Below the wrist (cuff) is the shiny round object on his belt. Left hand in his front pants pocket - the top back of his hand showing.
This might be off balance unless he were reaching for something in the coat pocket.
That hasn't changed for me after the many threads of discussion and the image thread.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 189081]

Alternative Thought.

I have been away from here for a while, just reading and tagging along. Obviously LE has a lot more information than we do and won’t release anything that will jeopardise their investigation. They will only ask for things they need help with from the general public.
In this case

· Does anyone recognise BG?
· Does anyone recognise the voice?

As far as I am aware they haven’t asked for anything else from the wider community. I may, of course, be wrong or have missed it if they have.
I would like to know if there is any reference or answer to the following question.

· Is it confirmed anywhere that the voice belongs to BG?

I will wait to be criticised for my following question.

· Is it just possible BG is a very frightened person who was going about their business and witnessed what happened to the girls? BG recognised the perpetrator

· BG is in hiding, already dead, tucked behind bars or moved elsewhere incognito in fear of being recognised by the perpetrator and the safety of his own family.

In short, what happens if LE is looking for the primary Witness who can identify prime suspect and perpetrator of the crime.BG potentially being a witness.

Just trying to put a different slant on it all

KR
Reacher

 

[Scarlett12]

Jmo if KN said DN was for sure not BG and stated he was with her, no one would want to interview her really. Not that I think he is anyway.

Yes, they would because it would still be pertinent and interesting. Plus she then could play the “ social media , mass media and public opinion is out to get us “ sympathy card.

She probably would get tons of support from outraged Americans not liking the Nations being made scapegoats.


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[margarita25]

Thinking out loud.

Qmfr:

Bringing this forward, and dangit, it's all just really hitting me now.

"Ives says he would rescind his resignation if enough evidence emerged to file charges in either case."
https://www.wthr.com/article/prosec...lphi-murders-flora-fire-deaths-still-unsolved

Again, there you have it. IMO this very clearly states/implies that currently there is NOT "enough evidence emerged to file charges".

This is the bottom line as we have it, jmo.

(There it is...dangit!!!!!! Sorry it really took some time for this to fully absorb...)

So, either:

1). DN is BG but there is not enough evidence to file charges (at this time).
2). DN is not BG.

If #2, BG is still out there.

:banghead:

ETA: the good news is if the case is #1, DN is BG but it just cant be proven, hopefully DN will be prosecuted for the murder of Tim Watkins and will never be able to hurt or kill anyone again.

In light of my above recent post, I'm going to take DN out of the equation for a minute here (very unfortunately):

My natural and logical reaction is to go back to everything square one as far as approaches, basically everything we have all discussed so much already, meaning specifically:

1). Continuing to monitor nationwide crime reports of possibly similar crimes.

*the frustrating challenge I have with this, is while this most certainly needs to be continually done, I'm afraid that any other crimes BG could be guilty of might not necessarily have any stark, glaring similarities, or at least what we know about....We see in so many cases where other crimes could be anything from robbery, to arson, to DV...

So frustrated. The confirmation of there being "not enough evidence to file charges" (at this time) is exactly what I was afraid of and is a BIG BLOW. Moo.

 

[margarita25]

Again, especially considering this not enough evidence business, I think our late Great Foxfire would say, maybe LE needs to take a different approach as far as releasing more information and utilizing it's best resource, the public. I understand "protecting the integrity of the investigation" and "keeping things close the vest" , and I'm NOT insinuating LE is not doing their job right, etc etc, there is so much we don't know...just wondering if there is sooooooomething else they can tell us that could help? Any kind of PC in itself could bring new viewers/interest/tips... I know all this has been discussed a thousand times...

I wonder if LE thinks/suspects/knows DN is BG, but just can't prove it, hence the lack of further public appeal.

When was the last PC anyway?

This whole resignation stuff is suspicious, imo...

 

[Shiressleuth]

Thinking out loud.

Qmfr:



In light of my above recent post, I'm going to take DN out of the equation for a minute here (very unfortunately):

My natural and logical reaction is to go back to everything square one as far as approaches, basically everything we have all discussed so much already, meaning specifically:

1). Continuing to monitor nationwide crime reports of possibly similar crimes.

*the frustrating challenge I have with this, is while this most certainly needs to be continually done, I'm afraid other crimes BG could be guilty of might not necessarily have any stark, glaring similarities, or at least what we knowe about....We see in so many cases where other crimes could be anything from robbery, to arson, to DV...

So frustrated. The confirmation of there being "not enough evidence to file charges" (at this time) is exactly what I was afraid of and is a BIG BLOW. Moo.

He did also say he would rescind his resignation if anything changed so watch that space.

Eta you did mention this in your other post I see.

 

[margarita25]

He did also say he would rescind his resignation if anything changed so watch that space.

(Not going to hold my breath on that one. Unless suddenly some smoking gun, etc appears...there is a difference between optimism and reality...I would think all possible forensic tests have been completed, or could there still be stuff that hasn't come back yet? If they were waiting on possibly crucial test results, I'm not so sure we would have gotten that resignation statement? Idk...)

LE please make a statement. What is the full status here. I guess it's okay for them to not even know if DN is BG or not-- just because they are LE it doesn't mean they have to have all the answers as they can only proceed with evidence obtained through their investigation...I guess what I'm saying is can they at least let us know if we need to keep looking out for BG or not...sorry if this doesn't make sense, rambling now, frustrated...)

 

[margarita25]

( O/T, check what Tampa Police Chief had to just say re: new surveillance footage released from yesterday's (4th) killing:

Police release new video of suspect in Seminole Heights killings
http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...spect-in-Seminole-Heights-killings-_162679203

From the above link:

""I don’t need speculation. I don’t need profiles," Dugan said. "We need names.

Dugan noted the gait and manner in which the suspect walked, saying it was similar to a person captured in video Oct. 9, the day 22-year-old Benjamin Mitchell was killed. He was described as a black male, about 6 feet to 6-feet-2 with a thin build and light complexion.

The chief seized on the casual manner in which the person in both videos appears to be walking. The Oct. 9 video showed him looked at and flipping his phone shortly before the shooting.

"It’s clear to me that this person is able to flip a switch and murder someone," Dugan said."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...s-in-11-days-Oct-2017&p=13757153#post13757153

Sorry but that made me giggle, I don't speculations and profiles, I need names...it seems LE is having to make these types of statements more often with "armchair detectiving" on the rise... )

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Agree with you, Gumbeaux, about the sadness that here we are, same place, different time, continuing a search for a dangerous killer of our two young girls.

Sadder still, is that large photos of hatchets or axes are being run throughout the thread along with talk about sharpening an ax or hatchet. Has compassion been forgotten or simply cast aside?

It is shocking to see these horrific items on the discussion of our two young girls murders. How helpful is it to post frightening images, as if, such tools may have been used during the commission of their double homicide? Really, how does studying an image of a hatchet find its way, in any manner helpful, that may possibly promote significant clues?

Please maintain decorum and respect for our girls, their parents, loved ones, the community of Delphi and, also, for those of us who remain horrified, and possibly traumatized, to view the images that may never have been utilized during their murders. Please patiently wait. All of us are frustrated but that doesn't relieve us of our duty to maintain respectful content. :rose: :rose:
.

bbm-

It doesn't DeDee.

I appreciate and respect your comment. I know you have worked many cases here on WS and speak from experience.

 

[kizzykat]

KN said in the youtube interview that DN only had hatchets in CO (despite IN employer & landlord statements.)

Below is one of the pics of their room that former employer took, is that a small hatchet on the floor next to the mattress (middle arrow)? Orange handle, black cover? If you look at the zoomed image, it looks like there might be a black string attached to the bottom of the handle. The other two arrows are pointing to a pair of flip flops and a single flip flop. Pointing those out for size comparison.

I found one that has a straight blaze orange handle, arced blade & black cover but it's 13" in length, so compared to the flip flops it might be too long. The one at the second link is 9.75". They do make mini hatchets but I haven't found one that has a solid orange handle like that yet.
Mostly I'm just curious if that looks like a small hatchet to anyone?

Pic sources:
https://www.bladehq.com/item--OKC-Spec-Plus-SP16-SPAX-Tool-Fixed--22275
https://www.bladehq.com/item--Ultimate-Survival-Technologies--26996

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...ss-says-daniel-nations-had-violent-tendencies

 

[Bird of Paradise]

I could really buy into DN NOT being BG.. except for one thing ... Katelyn.

IMHO she is cagey as all get out. She stated that DN has rage, violence towards her, won’t say “no, he couldn’t do this”, and such. Why not just state that there is zero chance he did this? She isn’t stupid..

So why not remove doubt? It’s because she DOES have doubt .. and if she is unsure then that makes him more of a POI in my book.


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bbm-

You are stating that as fact?

Interesting criteria to use to determine whether someone is a POI or not.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

May I ask precisely what the point is of searching hatchet look alikes?
What is that going to prove?

No snark. Truly.
Pure curiosity what y'all are doing here with this hatchet thing.

 

[ocgrad]

Yes, they would because it would still be pertinent and interesting. Plus she then could play the “ social media , mass media and public opinion is out to get us “ sympathy card.

She probably would get tons of support from outraged Americans not liking the Nations being made scapegoats.


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I believe she thinks he very well may be BG (if she doesn't know for sure) and wants to distance herself from the crime as much as possible by being willing to discuss and consider the possibilities.
The problem is she has been asked terrible questions. I want to know why they moved from FL to IN and did he know anyone in Carroll Co and does she know where was the construction crew working in mid Feb and does he often wear a brown tool belt or nail pouch. I know she was asked not to talk about the case but some of those questions are not directly to the case itself.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Do we know that DN is a very seasoned outdoorsman? I get the impression he is. Which brings me to one of my thoughts. Sometime back it was mentioned that whoever BG is was probably used to the outdoors and seemed quite comfortable walking that bridge as it isn't safe.
Perhaps BG was truly a man that knew how to live off the land, lived near natural water, killed for food with a hatchet, even fish, could throw it with precision to wound or kill wildlife for food, used a hatchet for firewood, etc. And of course a hatchet could be used for protection. Seems to me that having just a hatchet could be used for so many useful things. I doubt a hatchet would be a specific tool a felon wouldn't be allowed to own. It would be akin to saying a felon couldn't own hammer! Also, if someone works construction (which KN stated DN did) a carpenter hatchet is a common tool to use. Then we can go on to talking about tool belts and how a it might fit into it.

snipped & bbm-

Do people actually do that? Guess I've been living in the City for too long. So some hunters kill by accurately throwing a hatchet?

 

[Bird of Paradise]

I believe she thinks he very well may be BG (if she doesn't know for sure) and wants to distance herself from the crime as much as possible by being willing to discuss and consider the possibilities.
The problem is she has been asked terrible questions. I want to know why they moved from FL to IN and did he know anyone in Carroll Co and does she know where was the construction crew working in mid Feb and does he often wear a brown tool belt or nail pouch. I know she was asked not to talk about the case but some of those questions are not directly to the case itself.

That makes sense to me as well.

I said threads ago her goal is to stay out of prison. Take her comments with a grain of salt.

 

[kizzykat]

That makes sense to me as well.

I said threads ago her goal is to stay out of prison. Take her comments with a grain of salt.

Curious what you think KN might've done that her goal is to stay out of prison?