IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #75

[kkdj]

If this horrible crime was committed by DN, where is the jacket BG was wearing in the pic? Buried perhaps?

 

[Daey34]

The problem here is that we assume that KN is telling the truth about taking him. On every forum, the public says "Kn took him on the 14th." Why? Because she said? She also said he had no access to the gun and that it was locked in the trunk (the trunk that doesn't lock and is tied down with rope), and had no access to car (but the TW search party took pics of him alone in the car circling the scene). Not to mention she remembers the 14th but has a blackout on the 13th. So her statements are of zero value, and for all anyone knows he drove himself on the 14th, and she doesn't want to admit he had her car. Or he walked, hitchhiked, etc.

This is what I'm thinking. Remember, KN did say that she drove him to his RSO sign in on the 14th so she got him from somewhere. When did she get him? On the 13th perhaps? Do we know what time he checked in on the 14th?

 

[margarita25]

If this horrible crime was committed by DN, where is the jacket BG was wearing in the pic? Buried perhaps?

Lit on fire maybe. With other bloody stuff. Could be anywhere, this would be my top guess though, Travis Forbes style (murder of Kenia M).

 

[margarita25]

What's going on with the Flora Fires...anything?

 

[margarita25]

This is what I'm thinking. Remember, KN did say that she drove him to his RSO sign in on the 14th so she got him from somewhere. When did she get him? On the 13th perhaps? Do we know what time he checked in on the 14th?

Dude. Seriously....this is for real right here...hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[margarita25]

The problem here is that we assume that KN is telling the truth about taking him. On every forum, the public says "Kn took him on the 14th." Why? Because she said? She also said he had no access to the gun and that it was locked in the trunk (the trunk that doesn't lock and is tied down with rope), and had no access to car (but the TW search party took pics of him alone in the car circling the scene). Not to mention she remembers the 14th but has a blackout on the 13th. So her statements are of zero value, and for all anyone knows he drove himself on the 14th, and she doesn't want to admit he had her car. Or he walked, hitchhiked, etc.

Can we get a zoom in on the rope?

 

[margarita25]

The problem here is that we assume that KN is telling the truth about taking him. On every forum, the public says "Kn took him on the 14th." Why? Because she said? She also said he had no access to the gun and that it was locked in the trunk (the trunk that doesn't lock and is tied down with rope), and had no access to car (but the TW search party took pics of him alone in the car circling the scene). Not to mention she remembers the 14th but has a blackout on the 13th. So her statements are of zero value, and for all anyone knows he drove himself on the 14th, and she doesn't want to admit he had her car. Or he walked, hitchhiked, etc.

Hmmm....she is active on fb groups, interviews...I wonder if she'd be interested in becoming a VI here? Would it be within TOS for me to reach out and ask here? I think iirc I've seen our late great matou do that back in the day? I'll ask Tricia and sillybilly.

(Eta: request sent to mods)

 

[Shiressleuth]

If this horrible crime was committed by DN, where is the jacket BG was wearing in the pic? Buried perhaps?

Burned in a homeless camp fire under the Camby Bridge. It was February after all. JMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

What's going on with the Flora Fires...anything?

(Do you mean since the Fire Chief resigned? The Fire Chief is the son of the investigator who resigned IIRC.)

 

[Shiressleuth]

Here's an article about all three resignations.


http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...ns-one-year-after-fatal-flora-fire/865756001/

 

[sumzero]

The problem here is that we assume that KN is telling the truth about taking him. On every forum, the public says "Kn took him on the 14th." Why? Because she said? She also said he had no access to the gun and that it was locked in the trunk (the trunk that doesn't lock and is tied down with rope), and had no access to car (but the TW search party took pics of him alone in the car circling the scene). Not to mention she remembers the 14th but has a blackout on the 13th. So her statements are of zero value, and for all anyone knows he drove himself on the 14th, and she doesn't want to admit he had her car. Or he walked, hitchhiked, etc.

Couple of things. First, KN would be in trouble if she lied to LE. I doubt she’d take that chance (and I’m sure LE impressed it upon her). Plus, she’s shown no interest in protecting her husband, just the opposite. Second, human memory is patchy at best. It is natural to remember some things more clearly than others. To say that the 13th is a “blackout” is to mischaracterize what she said. She said she thinks DN was with her, but isn’t 100% certain. Third, the car situation changed when they moved to CO. Of course, he had access to it; they were living out of it, for crying out loud. By contrast, she had kicked DN to the curb during the period when the Delphi murders occurred. Clearly, she had the car and needed it to get to work. He had to fend for himself. Finally, it’s a weak argument (and it happens on WS all the time!) that claims LE or a witness or a suspect is lying or means just the opposite of what they’ve said. More likely, the person making the argument just doesn’t want to accept facts which undermine their theory. (“It’s not what I want to hear, so he/she must be lying.&#8221 This is what happens when we begin with our conclusion and then interpret (or bend) the facts to make them fit.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think she said he missed one ultrasound but couldn't remember if that was the one or not so she has failed to give him an alibi actually. Her social media can be used by LE in determining the veracity of the info however. He already has an alibi for the 14th so the fact she says she definitely took him to sign in, is irrelevant. It is fact she gave him no alibi for the 13th. It is also fact he was living in a car under the Camby bridge, so he had access to a car other than KN's. What we don't know is if he drove that other car at all. We do know he drove a car in April, May, July, and Sept though.

 

[mtnlites]

I wanted to take a moment to wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving tomorrow. Hope you all have a happy and safe time. I will be thinking of Abigail and Liberty’s families.

Thank you, and a Happy Thanksgiving to you as well!

The first year, with all the "firsts" is the hardest. I hope they're able to find some peace.

 

[crhedBngr]

I wanted to take a moment to wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving tomorrow. Hope you all have a happy and safe time. I will be thinking of Abigail and Liberty’s families.

The same to you, Greg, and to the rest of the Websleuthers!

 

[crhedBngr]

Speaking of the jacket, I went back again to look at that still pic from the news video of what looks like a blue jacket on the sofa arm, but KN claimed that it was jeans. Then I rewatched the video the still pics came from. I found a 3rd pic in the video I've not seen posted before. Blink and you miss it. It's about the :42 mark on the video. (I've posted it below.)

First pic I'm wondering what that is hanging on the door? Back left corner of pic, arrow pointing to it.
Second pic is the screenshot I just found, are those black coveralls hanging from or in front of the fireplace? (Made me think of the man in black that was seen on the trail in Delphi.)

http://fox59.com/2017/09/28/former-...in-delphi-murders-recalls-worrisome-behavior/

RBBM

I took a second look at the lower left-hand corner of the first photo you posted. I think KN is technically correct - I believe there is a pair of folded jeans on top of something else that is blue. That "something else" appears to me to be a blue windbreaker, very similar to the one BG is wearing.

JMVHO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4929272/Man-arrested-week-connected-double-murder.html

@margarita

The pic of the boot of the car is one of the pics in this article. Don't know if it is zoomable.

 

[Scarlett12]

Dude. Seriously....this is for real right here...hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Yup!

Why does she claim she took him on the 14th to sign in? I believe it is true, she probably figures that cameras or witnesses can place her there.

The 13th? I have a feeling he went awol. And she knows it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kizzykat]

RBBM

I took a second look at the lower left-hand corner of the first photo you posted. I think KN is technically correct - I believe there is a pair of folded jeans on top of something else that is blue. That "something else" appears to me to be a blue windbreaker, very similar to the one BG is wearing.

JMVHO.

Thank you. Yes, I've had trouble with that being just a pair of jeans, and now that you point it out I see what you're saying, a pair of jeans folded on top something else. Mostly what I see right at the end of the arm of the sofa appears to be a hood folded.
In the 2nd screenshot I posted, at first glance I thought it was a man's suit, but immediately dismissed that as I can't see DN carting a suit around, let alone having a need for one given his circumstances. Then looking closer I thought black coveralls? Which made me think of the 'man in black' seen on/near the bridge. It looks to be on a clothes hanger on a light fixture above the fireplace mantle and the 'legs' are draped over whatever that white thing is.

 

[kizzykat]

I think KN was trying to make sense of what the pic was of, since she seems sure he didn't own a navy blue coat.
Also, these pics look like the room/house they were renting from the farm/ranch DN was working on so that's maybe a timeline. How long before the murders were they living there?

About 1 1/2 yrs prior to Delphi murders. He started working/living there Spring 2015, not sure exactly when he left but things went south pretty fast:
"A few months into his employment, she said he began to exhibit “worrisome” behavior."
In July is when he took their truck and got busted in the bathroom in Bartholomew Co., he became violent & when they tried to have him removed he wouldn't leave.

http://fox59.com/2017/09/28/former-...in-delphi-murders-recalls-worrisome-behavior/

 

[kizzykat]

The problem here is that we assume that KN is telling the truth about taking him. On every forum, the public says "Kn took him on the 14th." Why? Because she said? She also said he had no access to the gun and that it was locked in the trunk (the trunk that doesn't lock and is tied down with rope), and had no access to car (but the TW search party took pics of him alone in the car circling the scene). Not to mention she remembers the 14th but has a blackout on the 13th. So her statements are of zero value, and for all anyone knows he drove himself on the 14th, and she doesn't want to admit he had her car. Or he walked, hitchhiked, etc.

Couple of things. First, KN would be in trouble if she lied to LE. I doubt she’d take that chance (and I’m sure LE impressed it upon her). Plus, she’s shown no interest in protecting her husband, just the opposite. Second, human memory is patchy at best. It is natural to remember some things more clearly than others. To say that the 13th is a “blackout” is to mischaracterize what she said. She said she thinks DN was with her, but isn’t 100% certain. Third, the car situation changed when they moved to CO. Of course, he had access to it; they were living out of it, for crying out loud. By contrast, she had kicked DN to the curb during the period when the Delphi murders occurred. Clearly, she had the car and needed it to get to work. He had to fend for himself. Finally, it’s a weak argument (and it happens on WS all the time!) that claims LE or a witness or a suspect is lying or means just the opposite of what they’ve said. More likely, the person making the argument just doesn’t want to accept facts which undermine their theory. (“It’s not what I want to hear, so he/she must be lying.”) This is what happens when we begin with our conclusion and then interpret (or bend) the facts to make them fit.

BBM
WADR, I agree with a lot of what you say, however I also agree with Daey, that many are concluding events happened (or didn't) simply because KN says so. The problem with accepting KN's word at face value is KN has already shown us she'll change her version of a key element of the story, and do so within the same week. As a result makes it difficult to accept her word on some other key & questionable issues.

Published 1:00 p.m. ET Oct. 22, 2017
She's also not sure Daniel ever had access to her .22 caliber rifle, which she kept locked in the trunk of the car.
http://www.jconline.com/story/news/2...des/788115001/

Youtube interview Published on Oct 27, 2017
38:35 mark
Interviewer: Now the rifle, when did you buy the rifle?
KN: Around my birthday, so it was like the first week of September.
Interviewer: Of this year?
KN: Yes sir.
Interviewer: Did he have access to any other, uh, like a pistol or rifle?
KN: Well we didn't have a pistol, we just had the .22 rifle. And he had access to it as much as I did.