IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[carbuff]

It might be the first kill for someone who has been a serial rapist. That's a fairly common path of escalation (though by no means all serial rapists escalate to murder).

 

[carbuff]

Maybe, it would be helpful to have another map, this time of the piece of land where the Iowa cousin's E/L were found dead?

Lyric&Lizzie's media and timeline thread: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ok-10-Evansdale-13-July-2012-Media-Maps-TmLne

This might be a link to a case map created by one of the members: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...4&ll=42.54066320213123,-92.1264871796875&z=11 It works for me but I'm not sure it's public.

 

[Peace777]

This is interesting and something I hadn't thought of before. Maybe BG had been trying to lure someone else to that location that day via SM and that person didn't show up. BG would have then been angry along with whatever emotions he had from the expectation of what he was going to do to that person. Then A & L just happen to show up...

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If that was the case of BG luring someone else to that area and they didn't show. Why hasn't that potential victim come forward to say "there was a creep wanting me to meet him there that day but I didn't go" or something.... JMO

 

[Satchie]

Lyric&Lizzie's media and timeline thread: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ok-10-Evansdale-13-July-2012-Media-Maps-TmLne

This might be a link to a case map created by one of the members: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...4&ll=42.54066320213123,-92.1264871796875&z=11 It works for me but I'm not sure it's public.

I've taken a quick look, but am reluctant to be drawn into that rabbithole.

Seems to me, the Iowa girls must have been quickly lured or forced into a vehicle, since they were eventually found 25 miles away. This wasn't the original theory, all the search energy seems to have gone into scouring the lake.

There's seems very little analysis of how an abduction into a vehicle could have been achieved, given the location where the bikes were found.

Anyhow, there is certainly that difference between the two cases. Police will also know a lot more: same manner of death and other things which connect different cases to one perp.

 

[Satchie]

2/13/2017=2032

7/13/2012=2032

acts 20:32- "“And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified."

I guess if that determined timing, the perp would have had one date per month to choose from: 8/12/2012; 7/13/2012;6/14/2012...1/14/2017. Even if the 13th of the month were significant, you still get one day per year

6/13/2013; 5/13/2014; 4/13/2015; 3/13/2016

 

[Deleted member 189081]

Thank you! That makes sense. It could tip BG off & could push him into hiding. Which I really don’t think he is. I think he’s going about his daily life so as not to draw attention to himself.
Do you think BG really wanted 2 victims? I go back & forth between that & maybe he just took the chance because he knew the girls were alone & vulnerable. MOO


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Personally, I think he was expecting one person but got two. Therefore I go back to electronic communications. Set up via the internet expecting one but prepared for two the JIC (Just in Case) I am moving away from the girls saw something ad-hoc scenario to the girls went to the bridge meeting place with a specific reason, whether that be photographs, geo-cashing a general walk I don't know

KR
Reacher

 

[wdmcmahan]

If that was the case of BG luring someone else to that area and they didn't show. Why hasn't that potential victim come forward to say "there was a creep wanting me to meet him there that day but I didn't go" or something.... JMO

I don't know, fear maybe? I'm not at all convinced that this scenario is what happened, but it isn't outside the realm of possibility and I feel like it can't hurt to consider every possibility we can at this point.

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[margarita25]

these girls were growing up so nice.

we have to see BG punished...like they say just one clue can unravel the whole ball of wax...just one small piece,
can be the tiniest thing...surely someone who thinks they know who did this, some one who hasn't come forward could give the police just a small clue even if they are afraid of BG...or of what would happen.

he could literally be some one who comes home from work every day and acts normal.

what things could make you suspect your own husband?

does he keep a room with a lock? does he have secret things you are not allowed to look at or touch?
are there things in your car or home that do not fit in? for instance does your husband keep latex gloves and zip ties in the car? a blackjack? handcuffs? nylon stockings? duct tape?
have you found violent or inappropriate images on his computer before?
does he disappear or lie about where he has been?

did he ever show an unusual interest in the case? did you find items that did not belong to you in your home or car?

did your husband act nervous or different after the girls were murdered?

did your husband skip work that day? does your husband claim to know things about the case?

has your husband made comments about the girls?

I so wish someone would come forward, I so wish this case would get more publicity.

Bummer.

MOO

This is good stuff.

And per the standard FBI profile, may have missed work, changed his appearance...also want to add (based on an episode of "Evil Lies Here" on ID, interview with wife of SK "Rhodes":

Has scratches, cuts, bruises sometimes (might say he got hurt at work, got in a bar brawl, etc...)

Provides strange gifts at strange times (jewelry (victim's), in another case I even saw a taperecorder, which turned out to key)

Has strange things in vehicle as menioned above, kill kit supplies, etc.

Domestic Violence / forcible sex

Interest in fetishes, bondage etc

Misses family appts.

Hunts and fishes, moo.

Has an assortment of weapons.

Moo

 

[kkdj]

I do not think this crime was related to social media. I think this crime was more than likely thought out due to the day off of school. I suspect the main goal was sexual and I also think if it hadn't been Abby and Libby it would have been someone else that day. I could be wrong, but it just makes the best sense to me that it was just as simple as that.
I suspect the killer is nearby and very familiar with the area and will strike again.

 

[Daey34]

I agree. If it were social media related, what would the incentive be for LE to keep that aspect private? I almost feel like if it were and the public were aware of SM, that would allow many more leads.

I do not think this crime was related to social media. I think this crime was more than likely thought out due to the day off of school. I suspect the main goal was sexual and I also think if it hadn't been Abby and Libby it would have been someone else that day. I could be wrong, but it just makes the best sense to me that it was just as simple as that.
I suspect the killer is nearby and very familiar with the area and will strike again.

 

[Satchie]

I do not think this crime was related to social media. I think this crime was more than likely thought out due to the day off of school. I suspect the main goal was sexual and I also think if it hadn't been Abby and Libby it would have been someone else that day. I could be wrong, but it just makes the best sense to me that it was just as simple as that.
I suspect the killer is nearby and very familiar with the area and will strike again.

That does make sense, kids off school but not a holiday for adults, so no families there. Does seem, if someone had been lurking around the area regularly, waiting for a suitable victim, he'd have been remembered.

I wonder though about anyone being a potential victim. I have a sense sex killers are attracted to a very specific age/gender/appearance: young women, young men, young girls or boys under age 11 (Elizabeth and Lyric), young teens, older teens, plus characteristics like hair and build, it seems each killer usually has a very specific preference and isn't random in who they choose.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Lyric&Lizzie's media and timeline thread: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ok-10-Evansdale-13-July-2012-Media-Maps-TmLne

This might be a link to a case map created by one of the members: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...4&ll=42.54066320213123,-92.1264871796875&z=11 It works for me but I'm not sure it's public.

Thank you! Though I meant a map where we can see if the piece of land E/L were found is a similar one with "owner not available" as in case A/L.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Reminds me of this I posted recently:

Delphi Murders: An oral history of the year since the murders of Liberty German & Abigail Williams


https://www.theindychannel.com/long...he-murders-of-liberty-german-abigail-williams

Chief Steve Mullins: "I think people in the community are smart enough to draw their own conclusions about what they should feel and shouldn't feel. Our people are very smart. We have a very good community and they are very strong. And they are able to draw their own conclusions about this whole situation very successfully.”

The "own conclusions" didn't led to the exactly right call to LE or an arrest, unfortunately.

 

[carbuff]

Thank you! Though I meant a map where we can see if the piece of land E/L were found is a similar one with "owner not available" as in case A/L.

There are maps like that. The archive site is probably the best bet.

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[kkdj]

That does make sense, kids off school but not a holiday for adults, so no families there. Does seem, if someone had been lurking around the area regularly, waiting for a suitable victim, he'd have been remembered.

I wonder though about anyone being a potential victim. I have a sense sex killers are attracted to a very specific age/gender/appearance: young women, young men, young girls or boys under age 11 (Elizabeth and Lyric), young teens, older teens, plus characteristics like hair and build, it seems each killer usually has a very specific preference and isn't random in who they choose.

I agree sex killers often have their type. When I said if not Abby and Libby it would have been someone else, I meant a white school girl of similar age and appearance. From my understanding several school kids went there that day on their day off. BG selected Abby and Libby because of opportunity imo. BG was on the prowl that day, that day off of school, for a school girl. Since most kids go places in pairs (or more) he had to have considered he just might get two that day and prepared for it. jmo

 

[mtnlites]

I do not think this crime was related to social media. I think this crime was more than likely thought out due to the day off of school. I suspect the main goal was sexual and I also think if it hadn't been Abby and Libby it would have been someone else that day. I could be wrong, but it just makes the best sense to me that it was just as simple as that.
I suspect the killer is nearby and very familiar with the area and will strike again.

I am actually leaning away from it having anything to do with them being off from school. He was there after noon and they would've been out of school soon anyway. A lot of the kids that I know used to head there when school got out. If it was a teenager or child he was interested in (and I am not convinced it was), then he could have simply just arrived there early and was planning on hanging out until someone got there. Then, maybe to his surprise, Abby and Libby were there soon after. Because of the time (after 2pm), I think it's possible that he didn't know school was out at all. Now, if this had taken place before noon, I might have a different feeling.

 

[heartgoesout]

My gut says he had to have know they were going to be there alone ahead of time.

That age group is just too risky. One would think that a parent could be right around the corner on the trail or parking the car (if he saw them dropped off) and meeting up in a few minutes, or picking up soon. It's just very, very risky.

I feel there was a confidence BG had that is unique. Time of day, public place, open spaces to see through leafless trees, the girls screaming, running, etc... if anything connects him to the Iowa case it would be the confidence he had, imo.

It's just a very risky crime. Even a robbery would be very risky let alone a abduction and double murder! I just feel this guy knew the girls in some capacity. jmo

 

[heartgoesout]

There is a gentleman in town, who helped discover the girls, that was involved in a fatal accident years ago when he and his high school friend were digging a tunnel along Deer Creek when the tunnel suddenly collapsed, killing his friend. Surely, over the years, there have been many accidents involving Deer Creek and, MHB, in general.

Personally, I've always felt the girls were left where they were found because there may be a benefit to someone. They were very close to the cemetery plat line and the path was just feet away. Who benefits from the girls being left on RLs land and not on the cemetery land? I do not know.

This. This is intriguing...

 

[cluciano63]

The "own conclusions" didn't led to the exactly right call to LE or an arrest, unfortunately.

That statement from LE means basically...nothing. Unless they are saying people should be scared, and are scared.

I also doubt BG thought he would find victims there that day. School,or no school, most young girls do not spend a 40-something degree day walking about a nature area. More likely to be at malls, movie theaters, etc...I think he was there and just saw them. I still believe some kind of sexual motive is the only viable one. Jmo

 

[mtnlites]

That statement from LE means basically...nothing. Unless they are saying people should be scared, and are scared.

I also doubt BG thought he would find victims there that day. School,or no school, most young girls do not spend a 40-something degree day walking about a nature area. More likely to be at malls, movie theaters, etc...I think he was there and just saw them. I still believe some kind of sexual motive is the only viable one. Jmo

This is my theory as well. I don't believe he was there to "hunt." Unless he specifically targeted one of them and was stalking them and knew they'd be there that day, I have a hard time believing that he went there to find a young girl. I believe that he was either there for another purpose and the murder was unplanned and he acted on the moment, or he was there to find someone and they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.