IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[sleuther0192837465]

Please be careful per TOS, we don't want to get shut down AGAIN.

I don’t know how to edit my original post? I thought this could be discussed as it was in MSM? I apologize if I stepped over a line. Going back into lurking mode...


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[Ember123]

Early on in this case I had a gut feeling there might be an Illinois connection. Many workers in Illinois had that day off for a state holiday IL is not far away from Delphi.
BG is of working age, but was there that early afternoon for a brazen attack. BG knows that bridge and the general area around it. MHB is difficult to find, I went out there last Summer and even with my keen mind map skills, without online resources and GPS the area on C.R. 300 where the girls were dropped off would have been difficult for me to find.
I believe BG is mobile, and has a work situation which gives him a fair amount of freedom, perhaps even trsvels for work. There are a lot of unsolved murders along trails and in various parks in several states around here, but if I were to create a "heat map" of them (which I plan on doing), Illinois has a scary number of these types of crimes, going back to the 80's, and my current list of unsolved murders across parts of IN, IL, SW Michigan, etc., goes back to 1980. My hunch is somewhere in that list will be a connection to Delphi.
Does he have a CDL? Folks have thought Indiana Packers aomehow fits into this. The Andersons grain terminal is a short walk from both the Freedom Bridge and the trail to the MHB. My hunch is if indeed this BG drives truck, he has enough time to poke around areas he delivers to and picks up from, then comes back later in his own vehicle to scout out areas for possible attacks.

MOO

Falling, a brilliant post! Appreciate your contributions here, always!

 

[Justice101]

I agree with several of you that any acquaintances of the property owner, relatives and friends of relatives would have been an avenuefor LE to pursue. If LE thinks that this person planned out this location for the confrontation and eventually murder place, then they knew this spot was perfect. It was such a perfect, isolated location for the perfect murder... no houses around, down the hill from the cemetery marked as "No Trespassing", the bridge to the southeast terminated in a dead end when trail walkers could not come in from that direction. (The only thing that seems odd is them all crossing the creek).

This person had to know the lay of the land or it was the greatest bit of luck the world has ever seen.

But it bothers me that if that was the case, we would have a person of interest by now. There had to be only a limited number of people that were relatives or friends of the land owner.

 

[Ember123]

Otto's post mentions Weichman Pig Co. being in Delphi and near Evansdale.

JTOL... But, if the SK geographic thumb print rings true, and Macomb IL forms the triangle, then Weichman Pig Co. comes into play again.
Macomb, IL is directly between the Weichman Pig Co. in Beardstown (30 mi. south) and Weichman Pig Co. in Monmouth (30 miles directly north).

Also, there's only one Weichman "buying station" in Indiana (Delphi) and two in Illinois (Beardstown & Monmouth).

Interesting!

 

[Justice101]

Sorry, to bring up old unanswerable questions.. .but...:

1) Do we have any early idea for the cause(s) of death?

2) Do we know for sure that one of the girls lasted longer than the other girl?

It seems to me if we knew the COD (which we will not know because only the killer(s) know and that will be used when the POI is identified), then that could help with the psychological profile of the killer(s).

 

[mtnlites]

Sorry, to bring up old unanswerable questions.. .but...:

1) Do we have any early idea for the cause(s) of death?

2) Do we know for sure that one of the girls lasted longer than the other girl?

It seems to me if we knew the COD (which we will not know because only the killer(s) know and that will be used when the POI is identified), then that could help with the psychological profile of the killer(s).

Not officially for either one, no, though family has spoken about #2 on SM and explained that the discrepancy of different dates of death on death certificates was because they (the family) chose which date to use. Many people thought that the different dates meant that they died on different days but, from what has been said, this doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[heartgoesout]

NO ONE-can tell any accent or anything with the 3 sec. audio we've heard! Concentrate instead-on his clothes-as LE stated. That is a brown fanny pack he's wearing-sgt Holcomb said that-more than once-Le have stated this., but, it's not a common looking one with just a zip.
. Snap up blue jacket, a cap, let. colored hoodie, light colored jeans-loose fit. Black vans with white stripes-
someone will remeber that fanny pack-i'm hard pressed to find anything just like it-seems to be attached to his belt-or around waist, but i'm thinking morte likely belt. It seems to have a darker brown pathch in middle-is that where he snaps it shut? Or just a patch. I know a guy in Iowa who says the dk. blue jacket-BG's wearing looks like ones he's seen on guys in 40's..it snaps-not zips.

I can. I can tell a Western Pennsylvanian accent from an Eastern Pennsylvanian accent by the way they pronounce their 0's , Eastern PA pronounce the name John for example as John, whereas Western PA say Joawwn.
It is a distinct accent that hands down is easy to distinguish.
I could tell from the word "down" if BG was from Western PA.

 

[gregjrichards]

FYI:
According to Anna Williams-Abby's Mother-
a website will be up soon, with pictures and information about Abby & Libby
Students at ivy tech are developing it, and Anna's brother is an IT specialist. He'll be managing it for Anna and Becky.
It will have pictures, audio, and information about Abby & Libby, and there will be new flyers to download, which will include the website information.
Anna said she will let everyone know when it's up and running!

This is good to know thanks. Hopefully it will help.

 

[Falling Down]

That unknown area along the creek could be floodplain. It seemed like what we call bottoms where their bodies were located. Perhaps it was a coincidence just moving up and away from the creek into an area with more cover.

Judging from the videos and pictures I've seen of the stretch of creek by the CS backs up what you posted, and during my trip last Summer I noticed that the creek varies in water depth considerably throughout the year and I'm sure floods in spots along the private properties in the area of tbe bridge.

I think BG used the convenient bend in the creek right there, plus the "jut out" from one side of the ravine as cover and concealment (to use a military phrase) for the murders.

 

[crhedBngr]

Otto's post mentions Weichman Pig Co. being in Delphi and near Evansdale.

JTOL... But, if the SK geographic thumb print rings true, and Macomb IL forms the triangle, then Weichman Pig Co. comes into play again.
Macomb, IL is directly between the Weichman Pig Co. in Beardstown (30 mi. south) and Weichman Pig Co. in Monmouth (30 miles directly north).

Also, there's only one Weichman "buying station" in Indiana (Delphi) and two in Illinois (Beardstown & Monmouth).

This brings to mind several murders that happened many years ago in my small Wisconsin town. The perp was a transient and repaired machinery, travelling throughout the Upper Midwest for his work; he eventually confessed to the killings. All victims worked in the same building as restaurant servers. I just found out that he had killed another woman in a different state, and I'm betting she also worked as a restaurant server.

I can't help but wonder if BG works within this triangle of pork processing plants on and off, then disappears for some time. I'm thinking he can't hold a full-time job. I'm sure LE has investigated this angle, but couldn't find enough evidence to charge a suspect.

Also, the resemblance between Abby and Lizzie, Libby and Lyric is simply astounding to me. Abby's and Lizzie's eyes are the same shape; they have reddish brown hair. Libby and Lyric are blonde with blue eyes and have the same upturned noses.

If BG kills again, I believe he'll do so in another park setting with bridges, possibly choosing two young girls, and they will look similar to Abby, Libby, Lizzie and Lyric.

I'm basing this opinion on what I've read about serial killers (Ted Bundy, Gary Ridgeway, John Wayne Gacy). They seem to follow a pattern when choosing victims and locations. I could be completely wrong.

Just my two cents.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I have been of this thought since day one.
Also in my opinion... I believe that for this specific 'unmarked' property that was mentioned here up thread by NIN, would be extremely fortuitous piece of land to own or have rights to, for use in hunting or fishing at... as from what I have seen throughout all of this, it really is a beautiful patch of land that hugs right along the creek, and just far enough up in to the wooded forest area...

It certainly would be seen as an advantageous piece of land to actually own or be able to claim as yours to use if you fancied fishing in a creek.

From earlier on in the threads I recall there was a deer-hunting-stand and another small shed/building to be found somewhere around, on, or near RL's property...
Does anyone remember or have a link, if the deer-stand or building-shed was actually located WITHIN this little 'unmarked' area, or on RL's land?

IIRC the deerstand was on Mears land before one gets to RL's property. There are pics of it in the image thread. It is also featured on one of RG's videos where he walks along the east side of the Creek from the trail towards the cemetery and CS.
IMO that piece of property is landlocked and can only be accessed from RL's land or the Creek so I cannot see it being of much use or value.

Eta. Ocgrad, I see you have posted similar. I hadn't seen your post till I had done mine.

 

[TheVisual]

I don’t know how to edit my original post? I thought this could be discussed as it was in MSM? I apologize if I stepped over a line. Going back into lurking mode...
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Don't want you to go back into lurking mode, we need all the help we can get. I was just concerned that you might be treading on territory that doesn't need to get started up again(RL and his son). We have been shut down 2 or 3 times already and we don't want to start another firestorm. JMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

I was just thinking about this last night...except for the release of the sketch, which came several months after their deaths, they haven't released a single shred of "evidence" or any REAL information and they've been cagey about what info they do have. What we have is basically information that we've pieced together from reading between the lines in LE's interviews and stuff that the families have released in social media chats. Officially, we have a grainy picture, a sketch that some people don't even think resembles said grainy picture, and a 2-second audio clip of 3 words. It took half a year before we even officially got a breakdown of the significant times. No wonder this case is so frustrating.

I agree. We didn't even hear about DG being the one picking them up and phoning just after three or seeing and speaking to the man until it appeared in a GH video, so that still isn't really "official" as it was not from LE. Why keep that info back? And how does keeping that back protect the investigation? Unless the TOD reveals a time much later than 3 pm perhaps?

 

[JazzTune]

Which leads me to think BG knew exactly where he was going to take the girls. BG knows this area. I keep going back to RL’s statement about how his son would play back there with his friends. I still wonder if BG is one of those “friends”? I do not believe RL had anything directly to do with the girls’ murders, but I sure hope someone has checked out (year books, etc) RL’s son’s friends. I have always thought BG grew up in Delphi, but moved away. This would make sense. MOO


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Please be careful per TOS, we don't want to get shut down AGAIN.

I don’t know how to edit my original post? I thought this could be discussed as it was in MSM? I apologize if I stepped over a line. Going back into lurking mode...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please don't go back into lurker mode! You have shared pertinent and thought-provoking ideas, and I have found your posts to be very helpful.

I too think the idea of checking out those from the past who grew up playing in that area is a good one. I believe you're on solid ground with that speculation.

I hope others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the potential problem being alluded to by 'The Visual' is the concern that someone will bring back a specific name and/or photo of an individual to the thread, and comment about the possibility of it being BG.

( I don't believe it was done intentionally in the past, but just sort of grew legs on its own. I believe that is the legitimate concern being referred to by 'The Visual.' )

We can always sleuth on our own. If people find someone who concerns them, they can call it in to the tip line if they choose. Besides, that's the goal to find BG. You were just giving out an idea.

That's how I interpret it anyway. As long as we steer clear of specific names and/or photos, it should be okay. All just my opinion, of course. As I said, I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

At any rate though, please keep sharing your thoughts, sleuther0192837465. You have some good ideas and we need to hear them...

 

[TheVisual]

Please don't go back into lurker mode! You have shared pertinent and thought-provoking ideas, and I have found your posts to be very helpful.
I too think the idea of checking out those from the past who grew up playing in that area is a good one. I believe you're on solid ground with that speculation.
I hope others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the potential problem being alluded to by 'The Visual' is the concern that someone will bring back a specific name and/or photo of an individual to the thread, and comment about the possibility of it being BG.
( I don't believe it was done intentionally in the past, but just sort of grew legs on its own. I believe that is the legitimate concern being referred to by 'The Visual.' )
We can always sleuth on our own. If people find someone who concerns them, they can call it in to the tip line if they choose. Besides, that's the goal to find BG. You were just giving out an idea.
That's how I interpret it anyway. As long as we steer clear of specific names and/or photos, it should be okay. All just my opinion, of course. As I said, I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
At any rate though, please keep sharing your thoughts, sleuther0192837465. You have some good ideas and we need to hear them...

Spot on jazztune !!!!!!! Thanks

 

[Deleted member 189081]

Yay! New thread open!

Let's ALL be super careful posting.

Better not to post (when in doubt) than to post and then be Alerted upon.

I find the Delphi/Iowa similarities interesting BUT how would BG just happen to happen upon 2 girls, in similar locale, on similar date, when our girls' plans were so last-minute? Therefore it seems coincidental.

My response to that point of view would be perhaps he arranged the date and Abby & Libby obliged via SM at short notice. All imho

KR
Reacher

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Thank you JazzTune ❤️& TheVisual. I mean no harm & do not want the thread closed again. Just really want BG caught, but never at the expense of someone innocent MOO


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[Yvettea]

My response to that point of view would be perhaps he arranged the date and Abby & Libby obliged via SM at short notice. All imho

KR
Reacher

I'm not positive but I believe the families have denied any internet involvement. LE hasn't shared that either.

 

[mtnlites]

I'm not positive but I believe the families have denied any internet involvement. LE hasn't shared that either.

I feel that, if there was internet involvement, they wouldn't be reaching out so much to community members and making statements geared towards BG's family and friends. There ARE ways to hide your activity online and cyberstalk but I just don't think that's what happened in this case. It's what I thought at first, but not anymore. I feel like if BG was savvy enough to bypass the usual internet protocols to hide himself, then after he killed them he would've been hacking into Libby's account to go through her photos and stuff, just to make sure he didn't accidentally show up in any of them from that day. Cyber criminals are pretty vigilant. I also don't feel like LE would be keeping that a big secret. I've never seen a cyber crime in which LE kept mum on the cyberstalking. Usually, the first thing they do is tell everyone to specifically check X,Y,Z social media accounts of their children and talk about how the crime may have gone down. There would be no real reason to keep that information hidden-and releasing it might even help since, chances are, if he lured Abby or Libby then he'd most likely be working on another child as well and THAT parent might be able to provide info.

 

[DeDee]

I agree with several of you that any acquaintances of the property owner, relatives and friends of relatives would have been an avenuefor LE to pursue. If LE thinks that this person planned out this location for the confrontation and eventually murder place, then they knew this spot was perfect. It was such a perfect, isolated location for the perfect murder... no houses around, down the hill from the cemetery marked as "No Trespassing", the bridge to the southeast terminated in a dead end when trail walkers could not come in from that direction. (The only thing that seems odd is them all crossing the creek).

This person had to know the lay of the land or it was the greatest bit of luck the world has ever seen.

But it bothers me that if that was the case, we would have a person of interest by now. There had to be only a limited number of people that were relatives or friends of the land owner.

There is a gentleman in town, who helped discover the girls, that was involved in a fatal accident years ago when he and his high school friend were digging a tunnel along Deer Creek when the tunnel suddenly collapsed, killing his friend. Surely, over the years, there have been many accidents involving Deer Creek and, MHB, in general.

Personally, I've always felt the girls were left where they were found because there may be a benefit to someone. They were very close to the cemetery plat line and the path was just feet away. Who benefits from the girls being left on RLs land and not on the cemetery land? I do not know.