IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

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neesaki said:
You’re right, now they’re stooping so low as to blame baby Chloe for causing her own death. These people sicken me to no end.

Another thing, viewing SA’s pics in these news reports... probably shouldn’t say this, but something about him seriously gives me the creeps, smarmy ? Maybe it’s just me, due to my own bad experiences with men during my childhood. Anyway....
Click to expand...

YES!! He is super creepy/ smarmy/ icky/ .. ITA!!!
MOO
and...in one of the pics of him at the airport returning from PR after the tragedy...I swear it almost looks like he had the very beginning of a smirk on his face or like a defiant look in his eyes as if to say "I'm above all this... how dare you judge me?"
Now clearly my imagination is just working overtime. I have no idea what he was thinking...
But he makes my skin crawl sometimes

IMO MOO
 
neesaki said:
You’re right, now they’re stooping so low as to blame baby Chloe for causing her own death. These people sicken me to no end.

Another thing, viewing SA’s pics in these news reports... probably shouldn’t say this, but something about him seriously gives me the creeps, smarmy ? Maybe it’s just me, due to my own bad experiences with men during my childhood. Anyway....
Click to expand...
bolding mine

Ita.
She "asked" to be picked up and placed in front of that open window; ergo -- it was her fault.
And his statement, "What more can they do to ME that hasn't already happened..." (paraphrased)
Yes, well. It didn't "happen".
Accidents happen. Cars slide off icy roads and crash into a fence.
That happens.
Not this.
Chloe's death was the result of a deliberate act.
An 'act of games'. Or whatever SA was doing.

SA speaks as if the ship had windows open at toddler height and higher, and anyone could've fallen to their death.
 
LietKynes said:
bolding mine

Ita.
She "asked" to be picked up and placed in front of that open window; ergo -- it was her fault.
And his statement, "What more can they do to ME that hasn't already happened..." (paraphrased)
Yes, well. It didn't "happen".
Accidents happen. Cars slide off icy roads and crash into a fence.
That happens.
Not this.
Chloe's death was the result of a deliberate act.
An 'act of games'. Or whatever SA was doing.

SA speaks as if the ship had windows open at toddler height and higher, and anyone could've fallen to their death.
Click to expand...
and it seems to me that now it is all about "him" - IMO.
 
Midwestmom2019 said:
Auto pilot. They are used to horrific scenes. But I see your point, too. I would be comatose. My ex? Would have already strangled SA, or better yet, thrown him through the window, then would start taking pictures. No joke.
We always said, if someone hurt any of the kids, it’d be a race to see who would get to the perp first....
Click to expand...


This perp is the grandfather and I don't think it was malicious, absolutely completely stupid of him but not intentional.

If my mother or father dropped my child , I'd god knows be angry but couldn't conceive hurting my parent over it.
 
LietKynes said:
bolding mine

Ita.
She "asked" to be picked up and placed in front of that open window; ergo -- it was her fault.
And his statement, "What more can they do to ME that hasn't already happened..." (paraphrased)
Yes, well. It didn't "happen".
Accidents happen. Cars slide off icy roads and crash into a fence.
That happens.
Not this.
Chloe's death was the result of a deliberate act.
An 'act of games'. Or whatever SA was doing.

SA speaks as if the ship had windows open at toddler height and higher, and anyone could've fallen to their death.
Click to expand...
What if she "wanted" to pet the lion at the zoo? What if she "wanted" to play in traffic? Apparently she "wanted" to bang on glass and was allowed to. I have never heard such bool sheet. Never. And I have heard plenty. That is a totally new kiddie pastime. *epic eyeroll* IMHOO there was NO earthly reason to place that child in danger but to tempt fate.
If he had dropped her, like he says, how could she have gone out the window if she wasn't already OUT THE WINDOW?!
 
LietKynes said:
bolding mine

Ita.
She "asked" to be picked up and placed in front of that open window; ergo -- it was her fault.
.
Click to expand...

An 18-month old “asks” to be held up to an open window? Did he give her everything she “asked” for? What is she “asked” for a sip of his beer? As her caregiver, he should have been making responsible decisions for her.
 
Let’s think about a model.
The railing is a foot out from the window. What part of the window? Interior or exterior? There’s about what, 4 inch window sill/ ledge.
Railing is about chest high, shoulder high for SA. How can he lean over her? How can he lean over period, to get a view and be outside of the window frame to get a better look.
Chloe would be bent over in half? if SA behind her to hold her.
The best way would be to reconstruct the scene. Build a duplicate scene. Set up the railing. Put in windows. Same kind. Use a doll the height and weight of Chloe. Same with SA. And then put the dolls/figures into various positions. On the railing. On the edge of the window frame. Then lean over. Lean back.

Yes. A mock up would demonstrate the story up close and personal for the jury.
Rarely, but at times the court will allow the jury to go to the scene. Bc looking down at the port would freeze almost anyone from even thinking to put a baby out that far on a railing and/or window frame. At least take a video from the height looking down.
IMHO that reconstruction would seal his fate.
 
Midwestmom2019 said:
Let’s think about a model.
The railing is a foot out from the window. What part of the window? Interior or exterior? There’s about what, 4 inch window sill/ ledge.
Railing is about chest high, shoulder high for SA. How can he lean over her? How can he lean over period, to get a view and be outside of the window frame to get a better look.
Chloe would be bent over in half? if SA behind her to hold her.
The best way would be to reconstruct the scene. Build a duplicate scene. Set up the railing. Put in windows. Same kind. Use a doll the height and weight of Chloe. Same with SA. And then put the dolls/figures into various positions. On the railing. On the edge of the window frame. Then lean over. Lean back.

Yes. A mock up would demonstrate the story up close and personal for the jury.
Rarely, but at times the court will allow the jury to go to the scene. Bc looking down at the port would freeze almost anyone from even thinking to put a baby out that far on a railing and/or window frame. At least take a video from the height looking down.
IMHO that reconstruction would seal his fate.
Click to expand...
1121-ctm-cruisesdeathvideo-begnaud-1981551-640x360.jpg

to help visualize this reconstruction - she's either sitting on the railing (where are her feet) or standing on the railing - and they both lean forward.
snipped
The video, which has not been released publicly, will be a key piece of evidence in the criminal trial, CBS News correspondent David Begnaud reports. The video shows what appears to be 18-month-old Chloe cross over to the side of the ship and stand in front of a bank of windows. A man attorneys said is Anello is seen following her.

There was a railing about a foot from the windows, Michael Winkleman, the Wiegand family's attorney said. The surveillance video appears to show Anello look over the railing for one second.

He then reaches down, picks Chloe up and appears to hold her over the railing. Winkleman said Anello didn't realize there was no glass directly in front of him. Within five seconds Chloe falls more than 100 feet below.

"She's sitting on the wooden banister, why did he then lean forward with her?" Begnaud asked Winkleman.

"I think it's pretty obvious why they leaned forward, and that would be so that you could get a better view," Winkleman said.

"What do you say to the fact that he raised her and put her on this banister which the cruise line might argue was not meant for young children to be sitting on?" Begnaud asked.

Video shows girl's final moments with grandfather before cruise ship death
 
Midwestmom2019 said:
Let’s think about a model.
The railing is a foot out from the window. What part of the window? Interior or exterior? There’s about what, 4 inch window sill/ ledge.
Railing is about chest high, shoulder high for SA. How can he lean over her? How can he lean over period, to get a view and be outside of the window frame to get a better look.
Chloe would be bent over in half? if SA behind her to hold her.
The best way would be to reconstruct the scene. Build a duplicate scene. Set up the railing. Put in windows. Same kind. Use a doll the height and weight of Chloe. Same with SA. And then put the dolls/figures into various positions. On the railing. On the edge of the window frame. Then lean over. Lean back.

Yes. A mock up would demonstrate the story up close and personal for the jury.
Rarely, but at times the court will allow the jury to go to the scene. Bc looking down at the port would freeze almost anyone from even thinking to put a baby out that far on a railing and/or window frame. At least take a video from the height looking down.
IMHO that reconstruction would seal his fate.
Click to expand...
^^ EXACTAMUNDO^^
 
IceIce9 said:
An 18-month old “asks” to be held up to an open window? Did he give her everything she “asked” for? What is she “asked” for a sip of his beer? As her caregiver, he should have been making responsible decisions for her.
Click to expand...


Some children ask to be picked up constantly to be at your height level.

People hold children that age on their hips all the time, I agree completely ridiculous to hold her by the window but this is a case of him not holding her tight enough.

I don't think the picking her up to see is that crazy it's not holding her correctly that's the issue. But i think the whole thing is accidental.

IMO
 
Wowno17 said:
Some children ask to be picked up constantly to be at your height level.

People hold children that age on their hips all the time, I agree completely ridiculous to hold her by the window but this is a case of him not holding her tight enough.

I don't think the picking her up to see is that crazy it's not holding her correctly that's the issue. But i think the whole thing is accidental.

IMO
Click to expand...
He would have had to be holding her outside the window, not just up to the window. And this was higher than just holding a child up on your hip.
 
IceIce9 said:
He would have had to be holding her outside the window, not just up to the window. And this was higher than just holding a child up on your hip.
Click to expand...
I agree - I think he was holding her at waist level while balancing her on the banister/ledge (depending on which story the attorney is using for the moment) - so she could look out according to this latest version. Had he been holding her on his hip, IMO this would not have happened without a great deal of gymnastic ability on her part.
JMO
 
SaguaroSpirit said:
What if she "wanted" to pet the lion at the zoo? What if she "wanted" to play in traffic? Apparently she "wanted" to bang on glass and was allowed to. I have never heard such bool sheet. Never. And I have heard plenty. That is a totally new kiddie pastime. *epic eyeroll* IMHOO there was NO earthly reason to place that child in danger but to tempt fate.
If he had dropped her, like he says, how could she have gone out the window if she wasn't already OUT THE WINDOW?!
Click to expand...
Perhaps the next excuse will be that she flew out the window, all on her own volition.
 
Toddlers are notoriously top heavy (and wriggly) Imo he leaned forward with her in front of him and He didn’t have / lost his grip
Does anyone know offhand the actual height of the railing ? Please don’t say chest high lol
 
oviedo said:
I agree - I think he was holding her at waist level while balancing her on the banister/ledge (depending on which story the attorney is using for the moment) - so she could look out according to this latest version. Had he been holding her on his hip, IMO this would not have happened without a great deal of gymnastic ability on her part.
JMO
Click to expand...
I believe he had to go to great lengths for this to happen. And I am not buying the theory that he had some kind of perception problem and couldn't see that the window was open. Those windows are situated so that a person would have to work pretty hard to get something/someone up there to tumble out. Otherwise, this same thing would be happening a few times on every cruise! Think about it! MOO
 
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